He makes a good point, I mean why if their is a god would he let such things as the holocaust, genocide, and world wars occur. I know you'll say he was teaching us a lesson but KILLING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE in a very painful way is not the kinda thing I think a loving god would do. This religion debate comes up under so many topics it's disgusting, people use religion as such a cop out. They explain everthing with it, come on people use your brains to figure out stuff.usmarine wrote:
this game is stupid.
if god doesnt stop someone from putting a baby in the microwave.....or explain why he/she/it let it happen. then you are a fucking idiot for worshiping said thing.
and that god has a plan BS is not applicable. if he wanted the baby dead, he doesnt need a microwave for a painful death right?
fuck i hate religion.
Religion =/= morality. I did not chose to be an atheist. From an early age, religion had always seemed a fairy tale. I made an effort to believe for years (the idea of death as oblivion scares the shit out of me), but it felt like trying to believe in the tooth fairy. I did, however, make a choice to be a moral person. I also believe this makes me a more moral person than those "scared" into submission by fear of eternal retribution. Who's the better person, the one who does the right thing because they believe it's right, or the one who does the right thing because they've been told to and are afraid of the punishment they'll receive for disobeying orders? It probably doesn't really matter, as long as they're doing the right thing.Mitch wrote:
Believe me sir, the atheist offers no comfort.ATG wrote:
Do you have one?
That empty space in your heart that nothing can fill.
What comfort does the atheist offer?
What knowledge we agnostics can purvey?
These questions trouble me.
Comfort is the sole reason one goes to god.
I will not speak for everyone, but i feel the atheist offers a feeling of pride and freedom. It turns morality into a choice, and those whom choose to keep morality even while not at smite-point, are the people i want to see advance in society.
Agnostics are not the speakers of knowledge, they are those who decide not to choose.
ATG, the unknown is scary. Un-answerable questions cause such frustration, i know. But when you look at the big picture, the imprint you've left on man-kind, the children you have made, the people you have helped.
The thing that scares me about religion is that, much like a living organism, its primary interest is survival. Sometimes what's right is twisted by religion to make it palatable enough to attract more followers. On the flip side, some people are of such low moral character that they will never do the right thing without fear of burning in hell forever.
What's the answer? I don't know. For me, it's not a supernatural being. Most likely, it's like everything else with humans: different for each one of us.
Best stated of thread imochittydog wrote:
Religion =/= morality. I did not chose to be an atheist. From an early age, religion had always seemed a fairy tale. I made an effort to believe for years (the idea of death as oblivion scares the shit out of me), but it felt like trying to believe in the tooth fairy. I did, however, make a choice to be a moral person. I also believe this makes me a more moral person than those "scared" into submission by fear of eternal retribution. Who's the better person, the one who does the right thing because they believe it's right, or the one who does the right thing because they've been told to and are afraid of the punishment they'll receive for disobeying orders? It probably doesn't really matter, as long as they're doing the right thing.Mitch wrote:
Believe me sir, the atheist offers no comfort.ATG wrote:
Do you have one?
That empty space in your heart that nothing can fill.
What comfort does the atheist offer?
What knowledge we agnostics can purvey?
These questions trouble me.
Comfort is the sole reason one goes to god.
I will not speak for everyone, but i feel the atheist offers a feeling of pride and freedom. It turns morality into a choice, and those whom choose to keep morality even while not at smite-point, are the people i want to see advance in society.
Agnostics are not the speakers of knowledge, they are those who decide not to choose.
ATG, the unknown is scary. Un-answerable questions cause such frustration, i know. But when you look at the big picture, the imprint you've left on man-kind, the children you have made, the people you have helped.
The thing that scares me about religion is that, much like a living organism, its primary interest is survival. Sometimes what's right is twisted by religion to make it palatable enough to attract more followers. On the flip side, some people are of such low moral character that they will never do the right thing without fear of burning in hell forever.
What's the answer? I don't know. For me, it's not a supernatural being. Most likely, it's like everything else with humans: different for each one of us.
And troubling at the same time. When everyone becomes atheist and starts believing that there is no higher being than themselves, they tend to become selfish, immoral, even criminal. Why should I not lie, cheat, steal, or even kill when it serves my interests if I am my own God?wah1188 wrote:
Beautiful and insightful post.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
The comfort that any illusion of meaning to be gleaned from existence is defined by no one but yourself. Standards are your own to set, to live and die by. So long as you do not cheat yourself, you cannot be wrong.
Thats basically what i was saying, while morals came from religion, you dont have to be religious to be a good and moral person. Most Atheists, like you and me, choose to still live respectable, polite and "moral" lives.chittydog wrote:
Religion =/= morality. I did not chose to be an atheist. From an early age, religion had always seemed a fairy tale. I made an effort to believe for years (the idea of death as oblivion scares the shit out of me), but it felt like trying to believe in the tooth fairy. I did, however, make a choice to be a moral person. I also believe this makes me a more moral person than those "scared" into submission by fear of eternal retribution. Who's the better person, the one who does the right thing because they believe it's right, or the one who does the right thing because they've been told to and are afraid of the punishment they'll receive for disobeying orders? It probably doesn't really matter, as long as they're doing the right thing.Mitch wrote:
Believe me sir, the atheist offers no comfort.ATG wrote:
Do you have one?
That empty space in your heart that nothing can fill.
What comfort does the atheist offer?
What knowledge we agnostics can purvey?
These questions trouble me.
Comfort is the sole reason one goes to god.
I will not speak for everyone, but i feel the atheist offers a feeling of pride and freedom. It turns morality into a choice, and those whom choose to keep morality even while not at smite-point, are the people i want to see advance in society.
Agnostics are not the speakers of knowledge, they are those who decide not to choose.
ATG, the unknown is scary. Un-answerable questions cause such frustration, i know. But when you look at the big picture, the imprint you've left on man-kind, the children you have made, the people you have helped.
The thing that scares me about religion is that, much like a living organism, its primary interest is survival. Sometimes what's right is twisted by religion to make it palatable enough to attract more followers. On the flip side, some people are of such low moral character that they will never do the right thing without fear of burning in hell forever.
What's the answer? I don't know. For me, it's not a supernatural being. Most likely, it's like everything else with humans: different for each one of us.
Those people need to be discouraged by society. I was raised to be a respectable and polite person, but my family didnt go to church and didnt ever talk to me about god. If my mom and dad can do it, then so can others. .Deadmonkiefart wrote:
And troubling at the same time. When everyone becomes atheist and starts believing that there is no higher being than themselves, they tend to become selfish, immoral, even criminal. Why should I not lie, cheat, steal, or even kill when it serves my interests if I am my own God?wah1188 wrote:
Beautiful and insightful post.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
The comfort that any illusion of meaning to be gleaned from existence is defined by no one but yourself. Standards are your own to set, to live and die by. So long as you do not cheat yourself, you cannot be wrong.
Last edited by Mitch (2009-04-02 21:25:04)
15 more years! 15 more years!
Life is not about us... "the individual..."
true happiness can only be obtained through helping others... and God loves all of you...
true happiness can only be obtained through helping others... and God loves all of you...
Love is the answer
Why should I worry about society if I am my own God?Flaming_Maniac wrote:
existence is defined by no one but yourself. Standards are your own to set, to live and die by. So long as you do not cheat yourself, you cannot be wrong.
Aside from the god part, this is quite possibly true. Humans are soft and weak compared to other animals. Our survival depended on our intelligence and our numbers for a long time. We're social animals and are programmed to need human interaction.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
Life is not about us... "the individual..."
true happiness can only be obtained through helping others... and God loves all of you...
Spoken like true empty Socialist rhetoric.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
Life is not about us... "the individual..."
true happiness can only be obtained through helping others... and God loves all of you...
Programmed by who?chittydog wrote:
Aside from the god part, this is quite possibly true. Humans are soft and weak compared to other animals. Our survival depended on our intelligence and our numbers for a long time. We're social animals and are programmed to need human interaction.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
Life is not about us... "the individual..."
true happiness can only be obtained through helping others... and God loves all of you...
Millions of years of evolution, survival, and a more-intellegent brain than any other animalWarhammer wrote:
Programmed by who?chittydog wrote:
Aside from the god part, this is quite possibly true. Humans are soft and weak compared to other animals. Our survival depended on our intelligence and our numbers for a long time. We're social animals and are programmed to need human interaction.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
Life is not about us... "the individual..."
true happiness can only be obtained through helping others... and God loves all of you...
15 more years! 15 more years!
\ I'm pretty sure a big thing in socialism is the abolishion of religion because it competes with the people's loyalty to their leader. Maybe a little more like a hybrid between Socialism and Evangelicalism?Deadmonkiefart wrote:
Spoken like true empty Socialist rhetoric.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
Life is not about us... "the individual..."
true happiness can only be obtained through helping others... and God loves all of you...
Even dolphins? Kinda selfish don't you think, Dolphins are pretty dang smart *insert Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy reference here*Mitch wrote:
Millions of years of evolution, survival, and a more-intellegent brain than any other animalWarhammer wrote:
Programmed by who?chittydog wrote:
Aside from the god part, this is quite possibly true. Humans are soft and weak compared to other animals. Our survival depended on our intelligence and our numbers for a long time. We're social animals and are programmed to need human interaction.
Last edited by Narupug (2009-04-02 21:35:32)
Yeah, this. The early humans who didn't feel this need to interact with others wandered off on their own and were eaten by lions or boars or ill-tempered sea bass.Mitch wrote:
Millions of years of evolution, survival, and a more-intellegent brain than any other animalWarhammer wrote:
Programmed by who?chittydog wrote:
Aside from the god part, this is quite possibly true. Humans are soft and weak compared to other animals. Our survival depended on our intelligence and our numbers for a long time. We're social animals and are programmed to need human interaction.
Atheists/agnostics do not lack morals or meaning in their lives.
Neither are they in a biker gang.
edit: someone beat me to it
Neither are they in a biker gang.
edit: someone beat me to it
Last edited by Pug (2009-04-02 21:36:04)
Dolphins got sonar, they have us beat.Mitch wrote:
Millions of years of evolution, survival, and a more-intellegent brain than any other animalWarhammer wrote:
Programmed by who?chittydog wrote:
Aside from the god part, this is quite possibly true. Humans are soft and weak compared to other animals. Our survival depended on our intelligence and our numbers for a long time. We're social animals and are programmed to need human interaction.
Why do we have illusions if there is nothing to look forward to. Why does lies exist, why does truth exist, why those illusions acquired in a world where there is only energy and matter, cold and empty?Mitch wrote:
Millions of years of evolution, survival, and a more-intellegent brain than any other animalWarhammer wrote:
Programmed by who?chittydog wrote:
Aside from the god part, this is quite possibly true. Humans are soft and weak compared to other animals. Our survival depended on our intelligence and our numbers for a long time. We're social animals and are programmed to need human interaction.
Your thinking too highly of earth and its intellegent life.Warhammer wrote:
Why do we have illusions if there is nothing to look forward to. Why does lies exist, why does truth exist, why those illusions acquired in a world where there is only energy and matter, cold and empty?Mitch wrote:
Millions of years of evolution, survival, and a more-intellegent brain than any other animalWarhammer wrote:
Programmed by who?
Stuff like earth has been happening for an infinite amount of time.
Firstly dolphins arent the next smartest animals.Macbeth wrote:
Dolphins got sonar, they have us beat.Mitch wrote:
Millions of years of evolution, survival, and a more-intellegent brain than any other animalWarhammer wrote:
Programmed by who?
And, i do not know the way dolphins live life. If they are social creaters who survive in packs, then its because they evolved that way. If they do not survive in packs, then its because they evolved without the help other dolphins would give
Last edited by Mitch (2009-04-02 21:40:57)
15 more years! 15 more years!
scientology
I thought you were a Christian.DesertFox- wrote:
In this day and age, it doesn't matter if you believe in God or not. You can still be a good Christian/other religious denomination regardless of if you propose the idea of the deity or don't---it's just not an important part, but the lessons of Jesus and such are.
Think about it, how many "religious" arguments are just stupid-ass "God v. no god" things?
To be Christian you have to believe in God and Jesus' resurrection and divinity. If you don't, then you are not Christian but rather a man who takes moral teachings from a book over 1500 years old with parts much older and goes to congregations to discuss said book.
@ Narupug, the idea behind Communism and to a certain extent its cousin Socialism is that the needs of the individual be sacrificed for the needs of the many.
This is also true of religion to some extent. You give up your time and money voluntarily to improve things for (a small section of) the many in the form of charity work and such.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Why does things happen for an infinite amount of time? Why do we have thoughts like we do, but in reality it shouldn't happen, it couldn't happen.
EDIT: meant for responding to Mitch
EDIT: meant for responding to Mitch
Last edited by Warhammer (2009-04-02 21:41:18)
spamMan With No Name wrote:
scientology
We're afraid of stopping.Warhammer wrote:
Why do we have illusions if there is nothing to look forward to.
Ask liars. Are you insinuating a "perfect" being created lies? People just say shit that isn't true to get what they want.Warhammer wrote:
Why does lies exist,
Truth = fact. Don't let religion double-talk you into believing otherwise.Warhammer wrote:
why does truth exist,
I don't know what world you live it, but there's more than cold and empty in my world. We're full of imagination/psychoses/desires.Warhammer wrote:
why those illusions acquired in a world where there is only energy and matter, cold and empty?
Yet it all ends.chittydog wrote:
We're afraid of stopping.Warhammer wrote:
Why do we have illusions if there is nothing to look forward to.Ask liars. Are you insinuating a "perfect" being created lies? People just say shit that isn't true to get what they want.Warhammer wrote:
Why does lies exist,Truth = fact. Don't let religion double-talk you into believing otherwise.Warhammer wrote:
why does truth exist,I don't know what world you live it, but there's more than cold and empty in my world. We're full of imagination/psychoses/desires.Warhammer wrote:
why those illusions acquired in a world where there is only energy and matter, cold and empty?
What? The Scientology cult or the post?ATG wrote:
spamMan With No Name wrote:
scientology
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.