nickb64
formerly from OC (it's EXACTLY like on tv)[truth]
+77|5610|Greatest Nation on Earth(USA)

Harmor wrote:

A Bobby in the U.K. says, "Stop or I'll say stop again."

A L.A. Police Officer shoots first and then says, "Stop or I'll fire."


If I were a criminal I think I would worry more about pilfering someone's home in the United States vs. U.K..
US has lower burglary rate than UK, I think, definitely lower home invasion burglary. Criminals in UK generally don't have to worry about death from "Sudden Perforation Syndrome" while burglarizing, unlike in US, where guns are relatively common.

Before issuing a concealed carry permit, most states require that the applicant prove he or she has been thoroughly trained, with:

    * 10 to 15 hours emphasizing conflict resolution.
    * A pre-test and a final test covering the laws of self-defense and the consequences of misuse of deadly force.
    * A stress on gun safety in the classroom and on the firing range.
    * A stringent shooting accuracy test which applicants must pass each time they renew their permit.

Of course, a person who has only a split second to decide whether to use deadly force can make a mistake. However, only about 30 such mistaken civilian shootings occur nationwide each year. The police kill in error three times as often.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6548|San Diego, CA, USA

west-phoenix-az wrote:

Harmor wrote:

If I were a criminal I think I would worry more about pilfering someone's home in the United States vs. U.K..
Especially when the state law allows deadly force without retreat if in your home.
OR when you're defending a neighbor's property.

I'll see if I can find it, but a guy in Texas shot 2 guys he found stealing stuff from a neighbor.
west-phoenix-az
Guns don't kill people. . . joe bidens advice does
+632|6388

Harmor wrote:

west-phoenix-az wrote:

Harmor wrote:

If I were a criminal I think I would worry more about pilfering someone's home in the United States vs. U.K..
Especially when the state law allows deadly force without retreat if in your home.
OR when you're defending a neighbor's property.

I'll see if I can find it, but a guy in Texas shot 2 guys he found stealing stuff from a neighbor.
The mans name is Joe Horn.
https://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p123/west-phoenix-az/BF2S/bf2s_sig_9mmbrass.jpg
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6289|Éire
"Blah, blah , blah... guns don't don't kill people, people kill people etc. etc."

USA homicide rate per 100'000 population: 7.52 (39% of which committed with firearms)
Irish homicide rate per 100'000 population: 1.33 (24% of which committed with firearms)

...you can keep your guns and gun-toting ideology thank you very much, you're welcome to it.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6285
According to the Bureau of Justice statistics and the UK home office:

Percentage of violent crimes in which a gun was used.
US - 9% (only includes non-fatal incidents)
UK - 1% (includes fatal and non-fatal incidents)

Crimes comitted using a firearm
US - ~ 400,000
UK - ~ 10,000 multiply this by the difference in populace gives 58,000 crimes if England and Wales had the same populace as the USA. Around 35% of these involved replica or paintball guns. Only 15% involved any serious injury.

Firearm homicides

US - 10,100  (2005)
England & Wales - 52  (2007)

42% of robberies in the US were comitted with a firearm.
1% of robberies in the UK were comitted with a firearm.

An armed populace forces the criminals to arm themselves. The notion that criminals will arm themselves regardless of the laws is not true.
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6222|Brisneyland
I think Mitch is missing a vital point in his oversimplified post. That is, more guns in circulation, the more chance that a criminal will use one.
Less guns= less criminals using guns.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6766|UK
Basically everything Braddock and PureFodder said. As well as the fact that the "crimes committed using a firearm" will include BB guns, replica guns, etc in the UK numbers.

Keep trying to justify your logic even though the facts go against it.

Last edited by Vilham (2009-04-01 07:06:22)

Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6715

Burwhale wrote:

I think Mitch is missing a vital point in his oversimplified post. That is, more guns in circulation, the more chance that a criminal will use one.
Less guns= less criminals using guns.
Word.

Same shit in Taiwan, but somehow, criminals have the latest shit such as MP5's... Corruption has to do a lot and shitty military patrols. Fuck, I could climb into an arms depot, MP ftl lulz.

Anyways guns should be a privliage, not a right. You don't want some gangs in south central saying "It's the second amendment herp derp" now do you.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
sergeriver
Cowboy from Hell
+1,928|6757|Argentina

Mitch wrote:

1. Guns are the best tools for protection, and for crime.
2. As said in number 1, guns are good for crime. Criminals commit crimes.
3. Criminals commit crimes by breaking the law. That is why they are criminals. So, a law that bans guns will not be followed by said criminal.
4. Now, criminal has a gun, and he is going to commit a crime because he knows innocent people do not have guns.
5. Innocent person gets raped, shot, robbed, and has no tool more powerful or effeciant than the gun the criminal has.

Thus crime is easier for the criminal.

However, if the criminal knew there was a chance he could get shot back, the criminal would not be so inclined to rob you.

It's a god damn proven fact that gun laws do not stop the use of guns by criminals.

And finally, guns were protected by the 2nd amendment for one main reason.

Protection against an over powering government.

Whats happening in the world?


Gun laws are getting more restrictive.
Government is becoming more controlling every single day.
1-Law, a good Justice system and the police are the best protection against criminals.

2-Criminals commit crimes, they are used to guns, they probably know how to use them better than Joe the plumber.  So, if Joe has a gun he still gets shot.  If Joe doesn't have one, he could be safe.

3-Yes, criminals break the law, and therefore they are criminals.  If they use a gun they would be breaking another law.

4-Wrong.  Criminal will try to commit a crime regardless of what innocent people have.  Maybe, if he knows that a person doesn't have a gun, he'll treat the said person better.

5-See point 1 again.
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6731|St. Andrews / Oslo

Dunno about everyone else, but I feel much safer living in a country with strict gun control.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|6761

Jenspm wrote:

Dunno about everyone else, but I feel much safer living in a country with strict gun control.
what do you mean "feel safer?"  but you also live in a country that is pretty much all the same race and culture.
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|6731|St. Andrews / Oslo

usmarine wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Dunno about everyone else, but I feel much safer living in a country with strict gun control.
what do you mean "feel safer?"  but you also live in a country that is pretty much all the same race and culture.
that last part is a good point, but knowing that the crazy old man down the street doesn't have access to a gun is always nice.


Meh, my parents were probably over-protecive when I lived over there, but still.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
mikkel
Member
+383|6600
I'm not going to argue whether or not gun control is right, but I can tell you that you're totally missing the point of doing it.

Mitch wrote:

It's a god damn proven fact that gun laws do not stop the use of guns by criminals.
You mean like how it's a god damn proven fact that airbags do not stop people from dying in car crashes, and are totally useless?

Last edited by mikkel (2009-04-01 08:46:36)

Warhammer
Member
+18|5680
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v324/drunkpanda888/taxi-driver-taxi-driver-9904613.jpg
https://lh6.google.com/ttcontributor007/Rvy8qzc2UNI/AAAAAAAAAJk/89DCrsJrCu0/00000452%5B4%5D.jpg
If criminals can get away with it. Then I don't see why I can't in the future. Those two movies=awesome.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6289|Éire

usmarine wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Dunno about everyone else, but I feel much safer living in a country with strict gun control.
what do you mean "feel safer?"  but you also live in a country that is pretty much all the same race and culture.
I feel safer in a a country with strict gun control... and by that I mean I've never been caught up or involved in a fight on the street and ever thought for one minute that the guy might pull a gun, and that includes the time I was mugged. I've never actually seen a gun in this country that wasn't in the hands of a policeman or soldier and I hope it stays that way.
Mitch
16 more years
+877|6525|South Florida

sergeriver wrote:

Mitch wrote:

1. Guns are the best tools for protection, and for crime.
2. As said in number 1, guns are good for crime. Criminals commit crimes.
3. Criminals commit crimes by breaking the law. That is why they are criminals. So, a law that bans guns will not be followed by said criminal.
4. Now, criminal has a gun, and he is going to commit a crime because he knows innocent people do not have guns.
5. Innocent person gets raped, shot, robbed, and has no tool more powerful or effeciant than the gun the criminal has.

Thus crime is easier for the criminal.

However, if the criminal knew there was a chance he could get shot back, the criminal would not be so inclined to rob you.

It's a god damn proven fact that gun laws do not stop the use of guns by criminals.

And finally, guns were protected by the 2nd amendment for one main reason.

Protection against an over powering government.

Whats happening in the world?


Gun laws are getting more restrictive.
Government is becoming more controlling every single day.
1-Law, a good Justice system and the police are the best protection against criminals.

2-Criminals commit crimes, they are used to guns, they probably know how to use them better than Joe the plumber.  So, if Joe has a gun he still gets shot.  If Joe doesn't have one, he could be safe.

3-Yes, criminals break the law, and therefore they are criminals.  If they use a gun they would be breaking another law.

4-Wrong.  Criminal will try to commit a crime regardless of what innocent people have.  Maybe, if he knows that a person doesn't have a gun, he'll treat the said person better.

5-See point 1 again.
Bro, thats completely flawed. Unless we're under a complete martial law police state theres no way a cop is gunna be able to do shit.

Your walking down the street and 2 dudes walk up behind you, throw you in the nearest alley and start beating you up and taking your shit.

Police? Yah, if someone calls 911 and you have 5-10 minutes to wait.
15 more years! 15 more years!
seymorebutts443
Ready for combat
+211|6594|Belchertown Massachusetts, USA

Mitch wrote:

sergeriver wrote:

Mitch wrote:

1. Guns are the best tools for protection, and for crime.
2. As said in number 1, guns are good for crime. Criminals commit crimes.
3. Criminals commit crimes by breaking the law. That is why they are criminals. So, a law that bans guns will not be followed by said criminal.
4. Now, criminal has a gun, and he is going to commit a crime because he knows innocent people do not have guns.
5. Innocent person gets raped, shot, robbed, and has no tool more powerful or effeciant than the gun the criminal has.

Thus crime is easier for the criminal.

However, if the criminal knew there was a chance he could get shot back, the criminal would not be so inclined to rob you.

It's a god damn proven fact that gun laws do not stop the use of guns by criminals.

And finally, guns were protected by the 2nd amendment for one main reason.

Protection against an over powering government.

Whats happening in the world?


Gun laws are getting more restrictive.
Government is becoming more controlling every single day.
1-Law, a good Justice system and the police are the best protection against criminals.

2-Criminals commit crimes, they are used to guns, they probably know how to use them better than Joe the plumber.  So, if Joe has a gun he still gets shot.  If Joe doesn't have one, he could be safe.

3-Yes, criminals break the law, and therefore they are criminals.  If they use a gun they would be breaking another law.

4-Wrong.  Criminal will try to commit a crime regardless of what innocent people have.  Maybe, if he knows that a person doesn't have a gun, he'll treat the said person better.

5-See point 1 again.
Bro, thats completely flawed. Unless we're under a complete martial law police state theres no way a cop is gunna be able to do shit.

Your walking down the street and 2 dudes walk up behind you, throw you in the nearest alley and start beating you up and taking your shit.

Police? Yah, if someone calls 911 and you have 5-10 minutes to wait.
In a perfect justice system then yes, the police are your best defense against criminals. However no system can be perfect, why can't people realize this yet. If i am a criminal and i break into a home with a gun, or i mug someone with a gun with the knowledge that no one is carrying a firearm or owns one then what is stopping me. If i attempt to commit the same crimes with the knowledge that the people i am mugging/robbing are carrying or own a firearm then i would probably second guess it. Another thing is, controlling guns probably won't work. If you pass a law saying that guns are pretty much banned outside of law enforcement and military personnel, criminals can still get the guns, it may not be legally but they still can get them and use them. This completely defeats the purpose of the law, law abiding citizens who don't own firearms can't defend themselves against the gun toting criminals. tried to explain it the best i could.
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6453|The Twilight Zone

Mitch wrote:

Whats happening in the world?


Gun laws are getting more restrictive.
Government is becoming more controlling every single day.
I think thats a good thing
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6715

.Sup wrote:

Mitch wrote:

Whats happening in the world?


Gun laws are getting more restrictive.
Government is becoming more controlling every single day.
I think thats a good thing
It's like a fucking yeast infection though, give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

Hi I'm the government, you aren't eating properly, you aren't watching the right media, you aren't doing things right, now go to prison.

Bit far fetched, but ya know what i mean.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6289|Éire

Mitch wrote:

Bro, thats completely flawed. Unless we're under a complete martial law police state theres no way a cop is gunna be able to do shit.

Your walking down the street and 2 dudes walk up behind you, throw you in the nearest alley and start beating you up and taking your shit.

Police? Yah, if someone calls 911 and you have 5-10 minutes to wait.
I honestly don't know who you are trying to convert in this thread Mitch to be honest. There is no point trying to persuade Europeans with your opinions on gun control as the statistics don't back up your argument, you are quite simply more likely to be shot dead in America than in most European countries. If you are trying to persuade fellow Americans then it's a cyclical argument. The ubiquity of firearms in the US has led to a high rate of gun-related crime and homicide and your solution is to have more guns available for people to protect themselves with, either way the whole problem started with guns... the US telling the world that less gun-control is the solution to gun-crime is a bit like telling the Africans to fight the AIDS problem by spreading more AIDS.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6664|NT, like Mick Dundee

Cybargs wrote:

.Sup wrote:

Mitch wrote:

Whats happening in the world?


Gun laws are getting more restrictive.
Government is becoming more controlling every single day.
I think thats a good thing
It's like a fucking yeast infection though, give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

Hi I'm the government, you aren't eating properly, you aren't watching the right media, you aren't doing things right, now go to prison.

Bit far fetched, but ya know what i mean.
No. Singapore does though.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|6766|UK

seymorebutts443 wrote:

In a perfect justice system then yes, the police are your best defense against criminals. However no system can be perfect, why can't people realize this yet. If i am a criminal and i break into a home with a gun, or i mug someone with a gun with the knowledge that no one is carrying a firearm or owns one then what is stopping me. If i attempt to commit the same crimes with the knowledge that the people i am mugging/robbing are carrying or own a firearm then i would probably second guess it. Another thing is, controlling guns probably won't work. If you pass a law saying that guns are pretty much banned outside of law enforcement and military personnel, criminals can still get the guns, it may not be legally but they still can get them and use them. This completely defeats the purpose of the law, law abiding citizens who don't own firearms can't defend themselves against the gun toting criminals. tried to explain it the best i could.
According to the Bureau of Justice statistics and the UK home office:

Percentage of violent crimes in which a gun was used.
US - 9% (only includes non-fatal incidents)
UK - 1% (includes fatal and non-fatal incidents)

Crimes comitted using a firearm
US - ~ 400,000
UK - ~ 10,000 multiply this by the difference in populace gives 58,000 crimes if England and Wales had the same populace as the USA. Around 35% of these involved replica or paintball guns. Only 15% involved any serious injury.

Firearm homicides

US - 10,100  (2005)
England & Wales - 52  (2007)

42% of robberies in the US were comitted with a firearm.
1% of robberies in the UK were comitted with a firearm.

An armed populace forces the criminals to arm themselves. The notion that criminals will arm themselves regardless of the laws is not true.
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6453|The Twilight Zone

Cybargs wrote:

.Sup wrote:

Mitch wrote:

Whats happening in the world?


Gun laws are getting more restrictive.
Government is becoming more controlling every single day.
I think thats a good thing
It's like a fucking yeast infection though, give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

Hi I'm the government, you aren't eating properly, you aren't watching the right media, you aren't doing things right, now go to prison.

Bit far fetched, but ya know what i mean.
I only agree with this (with the government)  "Government is becoming more controlling every single day." when gun related. Our personal life on the other hand (tapping phones as a legal action)...
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6715

.Sup wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

.Sup wrote:


I think thats a good thing
It's like a fucking yeast infection though, give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

Hi I'm the government, you aren't eating properly, you aren't watching the right media, you aren't doing things right, now go to prison.

Bit far fetched, but ya know what i mean.
I only agree with this (with the government)  "Government is becoming more controlling every single day." when gun related. Our personal life on the other hand (tapping phones as a legal action)...
Theres gotta be control to guns. But it's how much control is the question. Best way by doing so isn't taxing the bullets, since most people who buy a shitload of bullets shoot guns for a hobby, but to tax the guns itself and continue to pay tax for them like owning a car.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6681|Disaster Free Zone

usmarine wrote:

Jenspm wrote:

Dunno about everyone else, but I feel much safer living in a country with strict gun control.
what do you mean "feel safer?"  but you also live in a country that is pretty much all the same race and culture.
He might. I don't.

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