BF2S Forums Irish Company Selling "Weapons" To Iran

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Gun control isn't something unique to your country.

the Irish opinion of the USA however, is.

Let me try a different approach,

Just because you live in Ireland, does not make you the authority of Irish attitude toward the US. Just like my living in the US does not make me the authority of issues regarding the US.

(Except the French,  all of us Americans pretty much agree the French suck)

How you can argue that Ireland is anti-American when for the last eight years our Government has been effectively violating its own neutrality by allowing US military flights to pass through Shannon en route to Afghanistan and Iraq is quite beyond me lowing. Our Government has been tossing America's salad for as long as I can remember. The Irish Government has never been anti-American... in fact the Irish people have never even been particularly anti-American, for the last eight years many were anti-Bush but anti-American? No sir, we're too busy being anti-British! Check out the scenes on the streets of Ireland when Clinton visited or when Obama was elected if you want proof of my claims.

Ohhhhhhhhh thats right, you ( Europeans) generally don't hate America:

You just hate our capitalist society, our gluttony, our arrogance, our meddling, our govt., and our rights ( gun ownership), other than that, you love America.

AussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Ohhhhhhhhh thats right, you ( Europeans) generally don't hate America:

You just hate our capitalist society, our gluttony, our arrogance, our meddling, our govt., and our rights ( gun ownership), other than that, you love America.

Yeah, look at all the protesters when Obama vistited:

http://blog.nordquist.org/wp-content/uploads/obama1.jpg

http://bp3.blogger.com/_xtyywKwqipg/SIi … in2thp.jpg

http://www.appletreeblog.com/wp-content … berlin.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3162/299 … 1225643653

This may be a shocker, but Obama is NOT America, the headline called it like it was, "OBAMAMANIA" not "Americanmania", and as is suggested in the other thread, there seems to be a decline in the love affair with this dipshit already

Last edited by lowing (2009-03-28 04:28:28)

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Yeah, look at all the protesters when Obama vistited:

http://blog.nordquist.org/wp-content/uploads/obama1.jpg

http://bp3.blogger.com/_xtyywKwqipg/SIi … in2thp.jpg

http://www.appletreeblog.com/wp-content … berlin.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3162/299 … 1225643653

This may be a shocker, but Obama is NOT America, the headline called it like it was, "OBAMAMANIA" not "Americanmania", and as is suggested in the other thread, there seems to be a decline in the love affair with this dipshit already

To be honest lowing i don't hate America. however, i hate certain parts of American Foreign and Domestic Policy.

EDIT: i know you were talking to others but thats just my little input

Your input is always welcome. I think I covered what is hated about America, the point being what you hate about America, pretty much defines America.

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Let me try a different approach,

Just because you live in Ireland, does not make you the authority of Irish attitude toward the US. Just like my living in the US does not make me the authority of issues regarding the US.

(Except the French,  all of us Americans pretty much agree the French suck)

How you can argue that Ireland is anti-American when for the last eight years our Government has been effectively violating its own neutrality by allowing US military flights to pass through Shannon en route to Afghanistan and Iraq is quite beyond me lowing. Our Government has been tossing America's salad for as long as I can remember. The Irish Government has never been anti-American... in fact the Irish people have never even been particularly anti-American, for the last eight years many were anti-Bush but anti-American? No sir, we're too busy being anti-British! Check out the scenes on the streets of Ireland when Clinton visited or when Obama was elected if you want proof of my claims.

Ohhhhhhhhh thats right, you ( Europeans) generally don't hate America:

You just hate our capitalist society, our gluttony, our arrogance, our meddling, our govt., and our rights ( gun ownership), other than that, you love America.

Things I hate about America (and bear in mind these don't cover all Americans)...

1. Foreign policy whereby the US fucks up a foreign region to further its own interests.
2. Right-wing religious extremism.
3. Bad news that only plays on people's fears and relies on sensationalism (we have some of that here too mind you).
4. Shitty Hollywood movies.
5. American cultural imperialism - it saddens me when I walk into a quiet, authentic French cafe or Irish pub and see CNN or FOX on the TV... but that's just the way of the world I guess.

Things I love about America...

1. All the great musicians and bands from there over the years.
2. All the great independent movies and all the movies that Hollywood actually manage to get right.
3. The landscape - incredibly vast and full of wonder.
4. The unique ability that the US has to advance and progress in such a quick space of time (just look at Obama, there aint no black Prime Ministers on the horizon in the UK)
5. The architecture - some of the most amazing skyscrapers in the world.
6. The people - some of them at least! Polite and talkative.
7. Freedom - when it's being observed as it is enshrined in the constitution at least!

I wouldn't list gun-ownership as its just my personal preference not to have widespread gun-ownership, it's up to you what you do with your society and that's fine. I wouldn't list gluttony because that's far too specific and couldn't possibly apply to all Americans or any sense of what it means to be American. I wouldn't list Capitalism because although I dislike the inhuman nature of cut-throat Capitalism I do see some of the merits of a relatively free market and I certainly wouldn't consider my attitude to it as hatred.

You are confusing criticism with hatred lowing. As someone who loves all things American I would have thought you might have been in favour of open, uncensored political discussion.

Last edited by Braddock (2009-03-31 04:28:55)

lowing wrote:

You have me all wrong. I do not love America: I love what America is supposed to be, NOT what it is. In fact, I can say I am ashamed of what we have become. We have bastardized our own constitution and turned it into an abomination of inconvenient rights that are our govt. merely side steps as an obstacle to be overcome, on its path of govt control and dictatorship.

1. We are gluttons....over weight, Suv's, houses we can't afford
2. We are spoiled....we have the nerve to still complain about how tough our lives considering the world around us
3. We are arrogant....we ARE Americans you can't do that to us.
4. We are self centered....we are more concerned about our blackberries than we are about the world or country around us. We can not be bothered to be knocked off of our normal routine, that is too inconvenient.
5. We are stupid....govt. education, enough said
6. We are lazy....goes along with entitlement, we expect to not have to work ( at least not too hard if at all) for our quality of life
7. We are full of entitlement....see above.

As far as land goes, it is pretty country however in my humble opinion does not hold a candle to what I saw in Germany and Austria

I may be wrong but it seems to me that you view "America" as belonging exclusively to the right-wing? It's strange that you are ashamed of what America "has become" seen as most of Obama's policies have yet to have had any actual impact on day to day reality... you're still living in the dregs of the Bush era in many ways, perhaps this is why you are ashamed of what America has become - you just needed the illusion of a Democrat in office to complain about the disasters of the Bush era!? As regards your other points, I've addressed them by number as above...

1. That's capitalism taken to its logical conclusion baby... greed, greed, greed!
2. You have created a materialist society for yourselves and this is simply an obvious symptom of that.
3. All that "manifest destiny" bullshit is partly to blame for this attitude.
4. A self-centred nationalist point-of-view often breeds a self-centred personal point-of-view (see above).
5. I wouldn't say that exactly, the US is still a hub for cutting-edge research.
6. I wouldn't say that necessarily... at least the man at the helm now has tried to make an impact straight off the bat rather than taking long vacations to clear brush on the ranch.
7. The mentality of greed that has been built up over the years has led to a materialistic desire to collect all of the things one desire's even when it is financially out of reach. Careless lending practices from greedy bankers seeking to further line their own pockets has helped exacerbate the problem by making it easier for irresponsible people to borrow money.

Many of the things you claim to hate are, it would seem, born out of some of the things you identify as being essentially "American", I guess you're just unpatriotic in that case!

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

You have me all wrong. I do not love America: I love what America is supposed to be, NOT what it is. In fact, I can say I am ashamed of what we have become. We have bastardized our own constitution and turned it into an abomination of inconvenient rights that are our govt. merely side steps as an obstacle to be overcome, on its path of govt control and dictatorship.

1. We are gluttons....over weight, Suv's, houses we can't afford
2. We are spoiled....we have the nerve to still complain about how tough our lives considering the world around us
3. We are arrogant....we ARE Americans you can't do that to us.
4. We are self centered....we are more concerned about our blackberries than we are about the world or country around us. We can not be bothered to be knocked off of our normal routine, that is too inconvenient.
5. We are stupid....govt. education, enough said
6. We are lazy....goes along with entitlement, we expect to not have to work ( at least not too hard if at all) for our quality of life
7. We are full of entitlement....see above.

As far as land goes, it is pretty country however in my humble opinion does not hold a candle to what I saw in Germany and Austria

I may be wrong but it seems to me that you view "America" as belonging exclusively to the right-wing? It's strange that you are ashamed of what America "has become" seen as most of Obama's policies have yet to have had any actual impact on day to day reality... you're still living in the dregs of the Bush era in many ways, perhaps this is why you are ashamed of what America has become - you just needed the illusion of a Democrat in office to complain about the disasters of the Bush era!? As regards your other points, I've addressed them by number as above...

1. That's capitalism taken to its logical conclusion baby... greed, greed, greed!
2. You have created a materialist society for yourselves and this is simply an obvious symptom of that.
3. All that "manifest destiny" bullshit is partly to blame for this attitude.
4. A self-centred nationalist point-of-view often breeds a self-centred personal point-of-view (see above).
5. I wouldn't say that exactly, the US is still a hub for cutting-edge research.
6. I wouldn't say that necessarily... at least the man at the helm now has tried to make an impact straight off the bat rather than taking long vacations to clear brush on the ranch.
7. The mentality of greed that has been built up over the years has led to a materialistic desire to collect all of the things one desire's even when it is financially out of reach. Careless lending practices from greedy bankers seeking to further line their own pockets has helped exacerbate the problem by making it easier for irresponsible people to borrow money.

Many of the things you claim to hate are, it would seem, born out of some of the things you identify as being essentially "American", I guess you're just unpatriotic in that case!

American are not greedy, we are in fact very generous. However, you assume that hating forced acquisition of assets to be "fairly distributed" is a sign of greed. Sorry that is not true.

Also, Obama, and every other rich person in America, did not get that way through generosity, wealth redistribution or propping up for the "less fortunate" like is preached.

My views are not right wing. My views are individualistic. I guess I should be ashamed for actually proposing the notion that we should be responsible for ourselves, and our giving, generosity and caring should be voluntary instead of forced govt mandate.

Make your mind up lowing, in one post you complain about Americans being gluttons and then in the next you immediately backtrack on that statement and claim they are incredibly generous.

What forced acquisition of assets are you on about? Do you mean taxes?

Obama was responsible for himself, he struggled through law school despite financial difficulties to make a success of himself and rise to the highest office in the land despite all of the supposed societal constraints against someone in his demographic... a testament to the values you hold so high. You should really be his number one fan!

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

I may be wrong but it seems to me that you view "America" as belonging exclusively to the right-wing? It's strange that you are ashamed of what America "has become" seen as most of Obama's policies have yet to have had any actual impact on day to day reality... you're still living in the dregs of the Bush era in many ways, perhaps this is why you are ashamed of what America has become - you just needed the illusion of a Democrat in office to complain about the disasters of the Bush era!? As regards your other points, I've addressed them by number as above...

1. That's capitalism taken to its logical conclusion baby... greed, greed, greed!
2. You have created a materialist society for yourselves and this is simply an obvious symptom of that.
3. All that "manifest destiny" bullshit is partly to blame for this attitude.
4. A self-centred nationalist point-of-view often breeds a self-centred personal point-of-view (see above).
5. I wouldn't say that exactly, the US is still a hub for cutting-edge research.
6. I wouldn't say that necessarily... at least the man at the helm now has tried to make an impact straight off the bat rather than taking long vacations to clear brush on the ranch.
7. The mentality of greed that has been built up over the years has led to a materialistic desire to collect all of the things one desire's even when it is financially out of reach. Careless lending practices from greedy bankers seeking to further line their own pockets has helped exacerbate the problem by making it easier for irresponsible people to borrow money.

Many of the things you claim to hate are, it would seem, born out of some of the things you identify as being essentially "American", I guess you're just unpatriotic in that case!

American are not greedy, we are in fact very generous. However, you assume that hating forced acquisition of assets to be "fairly distributed" is a sign of greed. Sorry that is not true.

Also, Obama, and every other rich person in America, did not get that way through generosity, wealth redistribution or propping up for the "less fortunate" like is preached.

My views are not right wing. My views are individualistic. I guess I should be ashamed for actually proposing the notion that we should be responsible for ourselves, and our giving, generosity and caring should be voluntary instead of forced govt mandate.

Make your mind up lowing, in one post you complain about Americans being gluttons and then in the next you immediately backtrack on that statement and claim they are incredibly generous.

What forced acquisition of assets are you on about? Do you mean taxes?

Obama was responsible for himself, he struggled through law school despite financial difficulties to make a success of himself and rise to the highest office in the land despite all of the supposed societal constraints against someone in his demographic... a testament to the values you hold so high. You should really be his number one fan!

Since when does gluttonous mean you can not be generous. We overly consume EVERYTHING, this does not mean we are heartless.

Nope not taxes, the determination that Obama has in taking from one person, NOT for govt. function, but to give it to another in order to be "nice", "fair" and "nieghborly".

Obama is a testament to affirmative action at its greatest splender. An under-qualified person getting a job he has not earned or worked for.

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Since when does gluttonous mean you can not be generous. We overly consume EVERYTHING, this does not mean we are heartless.

Well, my dictionary defines gluttonous as being excessively greedy... you brought up the issue of generosity as though it was a retort to some sort of accusation on my part. I regard the Americans as being neither stereotypically greedy nor gluttonous to be honest.

lowing wrote:

Nope not taxes, the determination that Obama has in taking from one person, NOT for govt. function, but to give it to another in order to be "nice", "fair" and "nieghborly".

You are making things up lowing... show me the legislation and maybe I'll take you seriously.

lowing wrote:

Obama is a testament to affirmative action at its greatest splender. An under-qualified person getting a job he has not earned or worked for.

A Harvard law graduate who obtained his qualifications via loans which he duly paid back, a man who worked as a community organizer and civil rights attorney before his three terms in the Illinois Senate. Please explain to me how this man is a poster boy for affirmative action lowing? Compare him with George W. Bush, who you loved and admired so much, a recovering alcoholic and drug addict who cruised on the merits of his family name and ran every business he ever managed into the ground before doing the same with the American Presidency.

We are gluttonous, again this does not mean that we ON OUR OWN ACCORD, are not giving. gluttonous meaning we overy consume, or are you gunna argue that we do not now.

I do not need to show you leislation. I offered you Obamas own words add to it, "spread the wealth." You know damn well his intentions.

As for affirmative action

I see, so a poor black kid just happened to apply to Columbia and Harvard and got accepted and his race was never mentioned. Also, I wonder how a poor person can afford a Harvard education AFTER 4 years at Columbia. I can assure you, I couldn't and my kids won't be able to either, oh, and that is even with the money I work for.

lowing wrote:

We are gluttonous, again this does not mean that we ON OUR OWN ACCORD, are not giving. gluttonous meaning we overy consume, or are you gunna argue that we do not now.

I think the Western world in general is guilty of this to be quite honest. I can see an element of Irish society getting this way... at least they were until the recession brought us back down to earth!

lowing wrote:

I do not need to show you leislation. I offered you Obamas own words add to it, "spread the wealth." You know damn well his intentions.

Words are all very well lowing but if he doesn't pass some legislation he'll be breaking the law when he comes to take away your hard earned dinero. You really are still terrified of the Reds under the beds aren't you!

lowing wrote:

As for affirmative action

I see, so a poor black kid just happened to apply to Columbia and Harvard and got accepted and his race was never mentioned. Also, I wonder how a poor person can afford a Harvard education AFTER 4 years at Columbia. I can assure you, I couldn't and my kids won't be able to either, oh, and that is even with the money I work for.

Didn't we have an epic argument in the past about race being a factor in getting ahead in life in modern America. We discussed how it was more difficult to get into the best universities and to get the top jobs when you were in a minority demographic but YOU argued that race had nothing to do with anything and that success in this life was down to only two factors: personal responsibility and hard work... and after all this you turn around and highlight that race is an issue when applying to a prestigious college like Harvard. What's it to be lowing, is race an issue or not when someone is trying to achieve success in contemporary America?

And by the way, his personal account is that he paid for his eduction via loans which he subsequently paid back so take it up with his bank.

lowing wrote:

Race shouldn't have anything to with it. Affirmative action dictates otherwise.

The way you phrased it suggested alarm bells should have went off the minute he even applied to enter a place like Harvard, as though the notion of a young black man being in such a prestigious institution would be some sort of abomination. Would your ears prick up so enthusiastically if you were told a young white man had managed to get into Harvard law school? Also, I'd like to see some proof of this affirmative action policy that saw Obama take his place at Harvard because I've looked around on the internet and I've found nothing beyond a few crackpot blogs.

lowing wrote:

Wow we are gunna go with what Obama says, unless we are gunna talk about his stated intentions for our country.

Reds under the bed lowing. Go barricade that door... I heard him talking about a 5 year plan on the news just there and he mentioned something called collectivisation!

lowing wrote:

Obama also says he is an America, yet provides no birth cirtificate to prove it. He also refuses to open up his years at Columbia and Harvard.

many question go unanswered regarding his background and his time in college as well as who paid for it. Do some googling.

I've never seen McCain's birth certificate... why wasn't there calls to see it? I know you do realise that Obama did publish his birth certificate on his website, I'm just wondering how far you think he has to go to entertain these tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists... sorry, didn't mean to offend you.

Last edited by Braddock (2009-03-31 09:20:36)

M.O.A.B wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

http://bp3.blogger.com/_xtyywKwqipg/SIi … in2thp.jpg

Just to point out, this one is actually of Kennedy.

lol, how did that get in there?

fermatx wrote:

Man, let's get back on topic. Was this bad? Yes. Was this as Bad as the MP5 Pakistan fiasco? No. Was this as bad as the ITT NVG China carp? No. Was this as bad as the Steyr .50 controversy? No.

What if this Irish company had sold the equipment to the Israelis... what would have happened then I wonder?