BF2S Forums Israeli Soldiers Testify To Gaza Abuses

usmarine wrote:

Correspondents say the testimonies, if proved credible,...........

/thread

usmarine wrote:

Correspondents say the testimonies, if proved credible,...........

/thread

Last edited by Braddock (2009-03-19 10:16:05)

Pug wrote:

Brad, feel free to discuss the other side as well...

...like how buses, shopping malls, random mortar and rocket attacks are always military targets.


aka, open your eyes and see it sucks both ways.

Pug wrote:

Then what are the Palestinians doing to prevent the militants from being active in their territory?

I have seen too many posts about that...

Pug wrote:

So if they are unable to help themselves, why must we continue to talk about a lost cause?

BTW I was referring to asking neighboring countries.

Pug wrote:

Well, I think the Jews asked for help right?

IDF in Gaza: Killing civilians, vandalism, and lax rules of engagement


During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive.

The soldiers are graduates of the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military preparatory course at Oranim Academic College in Tivon. Some of their statements made on Feb. 13 will appear Thursday and Friday in Haaretz. Dozens of graduates of the course who took part in the discussion fought in the Gaza operation.

The speakers included combat pilots and infantry soldiers. Their testimony runs counter to the Israel Defense Forces' claims that Israeli troops observed a high level of moral behavior during the operation. The session's transcript was published this week in the newsletter for the course's graduates.

The testimonies include a description by an infantry squad leader of an incident where an IDF sharpshooter mistakenly shot a Palestinian mother and her two children. "There was a house with a family inside .... We put them in a room. Later we left the house and another platoon entered it, and a few days after that there was an order to release the family. They had set up positions upstairs. There was a sniper position on the roof," the soldier said.

"The platoon commander let the family go and told them to go to the right. One mother and her two children didn't understand and went to the left, but they forgot to tell the sharpshooter on the roof they had let them go and it was okay, and he should hold his fire and he ... he did what he was supposed to, like he was following his orders."

According to the squad leader: "The sharpshooter saw a woman and children approaching him, closer than the lines he was told no one should pass. He shot them straight away. In any case, what happened is that in the end he killed them.

"I don't think he felt too bad about it, because after all, as far as he was concerned, he did his job according to the orders he was given. And the atmosphere in general, from what I understood from most of my men who I talked to ... I don't know how to describe it .... The lives of Palestinians, let's say, is something very, very less important than the lives of our soldiers. So as far as they are concerned they can justify it that way," he said.

Another squad leader from the same brigade told of an incident where the company commander ordered that an elderly Palestinian woman be shot and killed; she was walking on a road about 100 meters from a house the company had commandeered.

The squad leader said he argued with his commander over the permissive rules of engagement that allowed the clearing out of houses by shooting without warning the residents beforehand. After the orders were changed, the squad leader's soldiers complained that "we should kill everyone there [in the center of Gaza]. Everyone there is a terrorist."

The squad leader said: "You do not get the impression from the officers that there is any logic to it, but they won't say anything. To write 'death to the Arabs' on the walls, to take family pictures and spit on them, just because you can. I think this is the main thing: To understand how much the IDF has fallen in the realm of ethics, really. It's what I'll remember the most."

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

usmarine wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Yeah half the discussions here surround allegations of some sort.  The fact that they haven't been independantly verifiied doesn't mean we can't talk about it right?

oh whatever.  fine.  have a 12 page discussion on israel again started by a story that is not proven at all.  have fun.

No one is forcing you to click reply marine.  Feel free to provide any insight you would like to the OP or don't participate.

Pug wrote:

So if they are unable to help themselves, why must we continue to talk about a lost cause?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-03-19 15:25:47)

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Pug wrote:

Brad, feel free to discuss the other side as well...

...like how buses, shopping malls, random mortar and rocket attacks are always military targets.


aka, open your eyes and see it sucks both ways.

I have continually acknowledged the unjustifiable bloodshed on the part of the Palestinian militants, I have washed my hands of the likes of Hamas and I have never condoned targeting civilians.

aka, open your eyes and read some of my posts.

Sweet.  Now just go convince your bro (about hamas).  However it does raise a question...  Do you think Hamas feels justified in targeting anyone since everyone is basically required to serve in the military?