blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6835
Most people in major European countries and the United States believe unemployed immigrants should be asked to leave, a poll showed Monday, indicating growing fears over competition for scarce jobs.

The FT/Harris polls published by the Financial Times showed more than three-quarters of Italians and Britons and a majority in France, Germany, Spain and the United States would support their governments asking immigrants to leave.

The results of the poll suggest rising unemployment could push the issue of immigration up the political agenda in Europe and may boost support for far-right parties.

Unemployment rates in Europe and the United States have begun to rise sharply in response to the global economic crisis. Spain's jobless rate is more than 14 percent, while Germany and France have rates of over 7 and 8 percent respectively.In Britain, where unemployment is at its highest for a decade, the tight job market has put a renewed focus on the use of foreign workers. British construction workers protested earlier this year over the hiring of foreign contractors.

Immigration minister, Phil Woolas, told the Financial Times the survey's findings were "not a surprise" but were "a concern" and that the government was keen to reassure the public it was in control of immigration.

The FT Harris poll questioned a total of 6,538 adults online in France, Germany, Britain, Spain and the United States and Italy between February 25, and March 3.

A majority of respondents in all countries said they would support their government asking immigrants to leave the country if they did not have a job.

The poll also showed that most Britons and just under half of Germans are opposed to citizens of other EU countries getting into their national job market.

Most Italians and Spaniards, however, said they did support EU citizens who wanted to work in their countries.

Asked about protectionism, around a third of French, Italians, Spaniards and Germans said they did not think national protectionism could significantly contribute to their country coming out of the recession.

The FT/Harris poll also found that just under half of Germans and Americans believed that free trade could significantly help their country to come out of recession.

But others were less sure: just over a third of Italians and Britons agreed with that suggestion.

source
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6595|North Carolina
Fuck yeah.
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6857

So, how many generations must someone go back before they aren't considered an immigrant of said country?  I guess native Britons should kick out anyone with Anglo-Saxon and Norman blood.  Only Native Americans in the US.  Hell, kick out those of Franks blood from France.  Before you kick out all the Chinese immigrants in the US, you need to kick out all those who went through Ellis Island first.

Last edited by Ilocano (2009-03-17 16:20:59)

blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6835

Ilocano wrote:

So, how many generations must someone go back before they aren't considered an immigrant of said country?  I guess native Britons should kick out anyone with Anglo-Saxon and Norman blood.  Only Native Americans in the US.  Hell, kick out those of Franks blood from France.  Before you kick out all the Chinese immigrants in the US, you need to kick out all those who went through Ellis Island first.
its only for Europe me thinks U.S. welcomes everyone
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6857

blademaster wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

So, how many generations must someone go back before they aren't considered an immigrant of said country?  I guess native Britons should kick out anyone with Anglo-Saxon and Norman blood.  Only Native Americans in the US.  Hell, kick out those of Franks blood from France.  Before you kick out all the Chinese immigrants in the US, you need to kick out all those who went through Ellis Island first.
its only for Europe me thinks U.S. welcomes everyone
Well, I thought otherwise considering your first paragraph...
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6906
can we include jobless legal residents(that don't want to work...not who are layed off etc)....lol?

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-03-17 16:52:28)

Love is the answer
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6957
I think those on temporary or work visas should have their visa cancelled. Obviously subject to some oversight.

Not racist, no other agenda other than to help Australian workers get jobs.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6855|NT, like Mick Dundee

Ilocano wrote:

So, how many generations must someone go back before they aren't considered an immigrant of said country?  I guess native Britons should kick out anyone with Anglo-Saxon and Norman blood.  Only Native Americans in the US.  Hell, kick out those of Franks blood from France.  Before you kick out all the Chinese immigrants in the US, you need to kick out all those who went through Ellis Island first.
What about 'inter-racial breeding' so to speak...

Where do I go? Wales? Scotland? Ireland? Germany?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6719|Global Command

Ilocano wrote:

So, how many generations must someone go back before they aren't considered an immigrant of said country?  I guess native Britons should kick out anyone with Anglo-Saxon and Norman blood.  Only Native Americans in the US.  Hell, kick out those of Franks blood from France.  Before you kick out all the Chinese immigrants in the US, you need to kick out all those who went through Ellis Island first.
You go back to the point where the said country began to exist.

100 years ago Iraq belonged to the now dead Ottoman Empire. Peoples and countries end up in the dustbin of history. But, borders are usually agreed upon things and if you think they shouldn't exist then you advocate anarchy.
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6857

ATG wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

So, how many generations must someone go back before they aren't considered an immigrant of said country?  I guess native Britons should kick out anyone with Anglo-Saxon and Norman blood.  Only Native Americans in the US.  Hell, kick out those of Franks blood from France.  Before you kick out all the Chinese immigrants in the US, you need to kick out all those who went through Ellis Island first.
You go back to the point where the said country began to exist.

100 years ago Iraq belonged to the now dead Ottoman Empire. Peoples and countries end up in the dustbin of history. But, borders are usually agreed upon things and if you think they shouldn't exist then you advocate anarchy.
Ummm, Israel?  Agreed upon borders?  But we digress...  Point is, established immigrants want to kick out new immigrants.  Funny though, those jobs that the new immigrants are taking for the most part seem to be the jobs the established immigrants don't want in the first place.  People just looking to put the blame on someone else.   History is repeating itself.  Replace "Jew" with "immigrant".

Last edited by Ilocano (2009-03-17 18:39:52)

lowing
Banned
+1,662|6841|USA

blademaster wrote:

Most people in major European countries and the United States believe unemployed immigrants should be asked to leave, a poll showed Monday, indicating growing fears over competition for scarce jobs.

The FT/Harris polls published by the Financial Times showed more than three-quarters of Italians and Britons and a majority in France, Germany, Spain and the United States would support their governments asking immigrants to leave.

The results of the poll suggest rising unemployment could push the issue of immigration up the political agenda in Europe and may boost support for far-right parties.

Unemployment rates in Europe and the United States have begun to rise sharply in response to the global economic crisis. Spain's jobless rate is more than 14 percent, while Germany and France have rates of over 7 and 8 percent respectively.In Britain, where unemployment is at its highest for a decade, the tight job market has put a renewed focus on the use of foreign workers. British construction workers protested earlier this year over the hiring of foreign contractors.

Immigration minister, Phil Woolas, told the Financial Times the survey's findings were "not a surprise" but were "a concern" and that the government was keen to reassure the public it was in control of immigration.

The FT Harris poll questioned a total of 6,538 adults online in France, Germany, Britain, Spain and the United States and Italy between February 25, and March 3.

A majority of respondents in all countries said they would support their government asking immigrants to leave the country if they did not have a job.

The poll also showed that most Britons and just under half of Germans are opposed to citizens of other EU countries getting into their national job market.

Most Italians and Spaniards, however, said they did support EU citizens who wanted to work in their countries.

Asked about protectionism, around a third of French, Italians, Spaniards and Germans said they did not think national protectionism could significantly contribute to their country coming out of the recession.

The FT/Harris poll also found that just under half of Germans and Americans believed that free trade could significantly help their country to come out of recession.

But others were less sure: just over a third of Italians and Britons agreed with that suggestion.

source
All of a sudden no one is interested "fairness" or being "neighborly". Don't you want to spend your money making sure these people have the same opprotunities that you have?
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6601|'Murka

Are these the same people who demanded the US not be protectionist in its economic and labor policies? I seem to remember Obama getting shelled by Asian and European leaders for his "tax incentives for companies to keep jobs in the US" bit.

I guess it's not hypocrisy if your own economy is at risk for the same reasons, right?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6480|Éire

lowing wrote:

All of a sudden no one is interested "fairness" or being "neighborly". Don't you want to spend your money making sure these people have the same opprotunities that you have?
That's an American illusion lowing, the idea that a country would owe anything to a citizen of another country. I have no problem with people from other countries coming over to Ireland to work, and I would even tolerate the idea of them claiming jobseekers allowance if they were previously paying tax in their old job, but career spongers can fuck off... you lot can take the huddled masses if you like.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6841|USA

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

All of a sudden no one is interested "fairness" or being "neighborly". Don't you want to spend your money making sure these people have the same opprotunities that you have?
That's an American illusion lowing, the idea that a country would owe anything to a citizen of another country. I have no problem with people from other countries coming over to Ireland to work, and I would even tolerate the idea of them claiming jobseekers allowance if they were previously paying tax in their old job, but career spongers can fuck off... you lot can take the huddled masses if you like.
So is it really such a stretch for you to understand why I do not want to pay for "spongers" ( although I call them parasites) even if they are from my own country? Nationality does not matter to me, production and contribution does.

and that huddled masses quote does not insinuate coming to America and let our govt. take care of you. The last part says "yearning to breathe free" which means the freedom to succeed or fail as you CHOOSE, by YOUR hand and not by the hand of your govt.

Last edited by lowing (2009-03-19 04:11:32)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|6480|Éire

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

All of a sudden no one is interested "fairness" or being "neighborly". Don't you want to spend your money making sure these people have the same opprotunities that you have?
That's an American illusion lowing, the idea that a country would owe anything to a citizen of another country. I have no problem with people from other countries coming over to Ireland to work, and I would even tolerate the idea of them claiming jobseekers allowance if they were previously paying tax in their old job, but career spongers can fuck off... you lot can take the huddled masses if you like.
So is it really such a stretch for you to understand why I do not want to pay for "spongers" ( although I call them parasites) even if they are from my own country? Nationality does not matter to me, production and contribution does.

and that huddled masses quote does not insinuate coming to America and let our govt. take care of you. The last part says "yearning to breathe free" which means the freedom to succeed or fail as you CHOOSE, by YOUR hand and not by the hand of your govt.
Socialism is about working hard and paying your taxes when times are good and reaping the benefits of the system when times are bad. Socialists have little time for spongers and freeloaders either as they fuck withy the system and ruin it for everyone else. Like you I value contribution and production, we just have different attitudes towards tax systems.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6841|USA

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

That's an American illusion lowing, the idea that a country would owe anything to a citizen of another country. I have no problem with people from other countries coming over to Ireland to work, and I would even tolerate the idea of them claiming jobseekers allowance if they were previously paying tax in their old job, but career spongers can fuck off... you lot can take the huddled masses if you like.
So is it really such a stretch for you to understand why I do not want to pay for "spongers" ( although I call them parasites) even if they are from my own country? Nationality does not matter to me, production and contribution does.

and that huddled masses quote does not insinuate coming to America and let our govt. take care of you. The last part says "yearning to breathe free" which means the freedom to succeed or fail as you CHOOSE, by YOUR hand and not by the hand of your govt.
Socialism is about working hard and paying your taxes when times are good and reaping the benefits of the system when times are bad. Socialists have little time for spongers and freeloaders either as they fuck withy the system and ruin it for everyone else. Like you I value contribution and production, we just have different attitudes towards tax systems.
Perhaps that is because we both have different classes of citizens. When I speak of entitlement attitude, I mean just that, people EXPECT everything and think it is FREE because they are not paying for it, you have read yourself that attitude in this forum. They call all of these social benefits FREE. They expect everything and contribute nothing, except their opinions that the rich are not doing or paying enough for them.

Socialists in America are leeches, or leech herders

Last edited by lowing (2009-03-19 04:28:12)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7000|Nårvei

Nothing is or should be free lowing ... don't mistake socialism or rather socialistic capitalism for giving handouts to the masses, a very few do but those numbers account for such a small part it's not really countable ...

Social benefits is paid for through taxes, a collective mutual fund you reap the benefits from when you have no choise ... I'm not sure how they do it in other parts of Europe but in Norway there is a set minimum of financial aid you get and a pension point system to determin if you are entitled for a higher sum ... you get pension points when you pay taxes, the more points the higher amount of aid ...

When it comes to foreign workers there are two categories ...

1. The ones that have moved to my country, they work and pay taxes like the native populace and have settled here, they have earned the same benefits as the locals ...

2. The guest worker, they work here but hardly contribute at all to the functions of society ... they should be the first to go if their line of work is laying off people ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6480|Éire

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

lowing wrote:


So is it really such a stretch for you to understand why I do not want to pay for "spongers" ( although I call them parasites) even if they are from my own country? Nationality does not matter to me, production and contribution does.

and that huddled masses quote does not insinuate coming to America and let our govt. take care of you. The last part says "yearning to breathe free" which means the freedom to succeed or fail as you CHOOSE, by YOUR hand and not by the hand of your govt.
Socialism is about working hard and paying your taxes when times are good and reaping the benefits of the system when times are bad. Socialists have little time for spongers and freeloaders either as they fuck withy the system and ruin it for everyone else. Like you I value contribution and production, we just have different attitudes towards tax systems.
Perhaps that is because we both have different classes of citizens. When I speak of entitlement attitude, I mean just that, people EXPECT everything and think it is FREE because they are not paying for it, you have read yourself that attitude in this forum. They call all of these social benefits FREE. They expect everything and contribute nothing, except their opinions that the rich are not doing or paying enough for them.

Socialists in America are leeches, or leech herders
To be fair, I have only read your claims about such people, I haven't actually read anyone advocating such views themselves... of course, if you have specific examples to show me I could take a look.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6841|USA

Varegg wrote:

Nothing is or should be free lowing ... don't mistake socialism or rather socialistic capitalism for giving handouts to the masses, a very few do but those numbers account for such a small part it's not really countable ...

Social benefits is paid for through taxes, a collective mutual fund you reap the benefits from when you have no choise ... I'm not sure how they do it in other parts of Europe but in Norway there is a set minimum of financial aid you get and a pension point system to determin if you are entitled for a higher sum ... you get pension points when you pay taxes, the more points the higher amount of aid ...

When it comes to foreign workers there are two categories ...

1. The ones that have moved to my country, they work and pay taxes like the native populace and have settled here, they have earned the same benefits as the locals ...

2. The guest worker, they work here but hardly contribute at all to the functions of society ... they should be the first to go if their line of work is laying off people ...
Have you not read that attitude in this forum yourself, all of this talk about "free healthcare" and "free benefits". "Free", IS the attitude that is taken when YOU do not have to pay for it.

I get berated all the time in this forum for bashing "leeches" and "parasites", while supporting and helping those that can not help themselves, ( yes, even by you) so please do not tell me that we are now all of a sudden agreeing here.

Last edited by lowing (2009-03-19 04:52:47)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7000|Nårvei

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Nothing is or should be free lowing ... don't mistake socialism or rather socialistic capitalism for giving handouts to the masses, a very few do but those numbers account for such a small part it's not really countable ...

Social benefits is paid for through taxes, a collective mutual fund you reap the benefits from when you have no choise ... I'm not sure how they do it in other parts of Europe but in Norway there is a set minimum of financial aid you get and a pension point system to determin if you are entitled for a higher sum ... you get pension points when you pay taxes, the more points the higher amount of aid ...

When it comes to foreign workers there are two categories ...

1. The ones that have moved to my country, they work and pay taxes like the native populace and have settled here, they have earned the same benefits as the locals ...

2. The guest worker, they work here but hardly contribute at all to the functions of society ... they should be the first to go if their line of work is laying off people ...
Have you not read that attitude in this forum yourself, all of this talk about "free healthcare" and "free benefits". "Free", IS the attitude that is taken when YOU do not have to pay for it.

I get berated all the time in this forum for bashing "leeches" and "parasites", while supporting and helping those that can not help themselves, ( yes, even by you) so please do not tell me that we are now all of a sudden agreeing here.
We pretty much agree on the basics lowing, the definitions however we are miles apart ... and tbh our socialised medicine is free compared to yours

Nobody likes freeloaders and parasites, the difference is we like to think we can turn some of them around making them productive citisens again and have programs for doing just that while you think a shot to the head is the best solution ... or something along those lines
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6841|USA

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Nothing is or should be free lowing ... don't mistake socialism or rather socialistic capitalism for giving handouts to the masses, a very few do but those numbers account for such a small part it's not really countable ...

Social benefits is paid for through taxes, a collective mutual fund you reap the benefits from when you have no choise ... I'm not sure how they do it in other parts of Europe but in Norway there is a set minimum of financial aid you get and a pension point system to determin if you are entitled for a higher sum ... you get pension points when you pay taxes, the more points the higher amount of aid ...

When it comes to foreign workers there are two categories ...

1. The ones that have moved to my country, they work and pay taxes like the native populace and have settled here, they have earned the same benefits as the locals ...

2. The guest worker, they work here but hardly contribute at all to the functions of society ... they should be the first to go if their line of work is laying off people ...
Have you not read that attitude in this forum yourself, all of this talk about "free healthcare" and "free benefits". "Free", IS the attitude that is taken when YOU do not have to pay for it.

I get berated all the time in this forum for bashing "leeches" and "parasites", while supporting and helping those that can not help themselves, ( yes, even by you) so please do not tell me that we are now all of a sudden agreeing here.
We pretty much agree on the basics lowing, the definitions however we are miles apart ... and tbh our socialised medicine is free compared to yours

Nobody likes freeloaders and parasites, the difference is we like to think we can turn some of them around making them productive citisens again and have programs for doing just that while you think a shot to the head is the best solution ... or something along those lines
I do not like to think that I can turn anyone around and make them productive. I like to think that I can live my life, make my decisions and become productive on my own, and I expect everyone else to do the same. If you CHOOSE not to, that is fine, but it should not cost ME or my family or the efforts I put into stablizing our lives. It should not cost ME anything, it should however cost them whatever it costs them. I do not feel it is my job to babysit other people and hand hold them. I am not their mother.


and no, your socialized medicine is not free, not even compared to ours. SOmeone is paying for it, and it sure as fucj\k is not the freeloaders.

Last edited by lowing (2009-03-19 05:04:52)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7000|Nårvei

^^ And there you sum up our differences quite nicely
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6841|USA

Varegg wrote:

^^ And there you sum up our differences quite nicely
I think so, and now the only question that remains is why? Why do feel the obligation to not only live and pay for your life, but also to live and pay for someone elses life when they can not be bothered to live and pay for it on their own.

Is it not good enogh to provide the water for drinking, that you see the need to also serve it to them, when they are the ones who are thirsty?
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6480|Éire

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

^^ And there you sum up our differences quite nicely
I think so, and now the only question that remains is why? Why do feel the obligation to not only live and pay for your life, but also to live and pay for someone elses life when they can not be bothered to live and pay for it on their own.

Is it not good enogh to provide the water for drinking, that you see the need to also serve it to them, when they are the ones who are thirsty?
I will walk you through this one more time lowing. Please pay attention this time.

If you have paid tax in your lifetime a record is kept, this record comes into play in the event of finding yourself unemployed, in which case you are able to claim social welfare; if you have never paid tax in your life it is a lot more difficult to get onto social welfare. Also, aside from cases involving those with disabilities, the State will cut your benefits if A) you refuse to accept work when it is available or B) you are unemployed for any length of time beyond 310 days (I think, not sure if that's the exact number of days). This puts paid to any notions of 'career' sponging... unless you consider 310 days a career. Furthermore, the amount you get on social welfare is barely enough to get by and the majority of people do not see it as any kind of way of life that they would aspire to. Unemployment is rife here at the moment and all I'm hearing from my unemployed friends is their desperation to get back into work.

I hate spongers just as much as you, and I take a great deal of pleasure when I see disgruntled chavs bemoaning the fact that they've had their dole cut, but having benefited from the system myself in the past I am still a proud advocate of socialism. You will always have a minority who try to fuck up any good system... just look at the greedy cunts who have ruined capitalism!
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7000|Nårvei

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

^^ And there you sum up our differences quite nicely
I think so, and now the only question that remains is why? Why do feel the obligation to not only live and pay for your life, but also to live and pay for someone elses life when they can not be bothered to live and pay for it on their own.

Is it not good enogh to provide the water for drinking, that you see the need to also serve it to them, when they are the ones who are thirsty?
A simple but still effective example ... no we don't serve them the water but we do provide the water ... a very few needs serving also but as I said those are so few in numbers that paying for them is okay ... the ones that we provide water for that expects champagne gets a kick in the face ...

And it's mutual lowing, I pay a little more taxes when I'm working and provides for those that don't and they do the same for me ... and to our systems benefit, we don't have a greedy insurance company as a middleman to skim money that could have been spent on healthcare ... socialized medicine ftw

Other than that Braddocks post has much truth in it
Wait behind the line ..............................................................

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