Karbin
Member
+42|6597
China’s car industry is quietly pressing Beijing for government help as it copes with a jarring slowdown, top Chinese auto executives
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/19/busin … .html?_r=1

According to The New York Times, "China’s car industry is quietly pressing Beijing for government help as it copes with a jarring slowdown." Until earlier this year, vehicle sales on the mainland were growing at double digits. That has turned into flat sales and the last couple of months and 2009 looks no better. China’s auto firms have been gearing up and spending to accommodate demand which is no longer there.
http://247wallst.com/2008/11/19/car-company-bai/

Et Tu, Toyota? tapping $5 billion from the Japanese government this month to lend to Japanese corporations that operate internationally.
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c … =rss_daily

The Nasty Class and Anti-Union Bias of Auto Bailout Opposition, or the Wall Street-Detroit
http://multinationalmonitor.org/editors … ndard.html

Background: There's a new Civil War going on when it comes to automaking in America. Japanese, Korean, and German automakers are now building 18 auto assembly plants in the United States, none of which is unionized. Kentucky (Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell) already has Toyota's biggest auto assembly plant outside Japan. Tennessee (Senate Rep. Bob Corker, who came up with the "chapter 11" bailout amendment) houses Nissan's North American headquarters. Alabama (Senate Rep. Richard Shelby) hosts Mercedez Benz and several other foreign automakers.

So there's no reason to suppose the good citizens of Kentucky, Tennessee, or Alabama are particularly excited at the prospect of handing over their taxpayer money to competing firms and their workforces.
http://robertreich.blogspot.com/2008/12 … ilout.html


MARKET FORCES AT WORK?

Unlike U.S.-listed companies, Japanese corporations do not disclose individual executive
compensation.
But Toyota's 25 board members made 3 billion yen for the past fiscal year, an average of roughly
$1 million each.
Honda's board cost's a TOTAL of 13 million

Their counterparts in Detroit made far more.

Rick Wagoner, GM chairman and chief executive: $2.2 million in 2008, $1 million in 2009
Fritz Henderson, GM president: $1.8 million in 2008, 30% cut for 2009
Bob Lutz, GM vice chairman: $1.75 million in 2008, 20% cut for 2009
Tom Stephens, GM executive vice president: $1 million in 2008, 20% cut for 2009
Gary Cowger, GM group vice president: $900,000 in 2008, 20% cut for 2009
Alan Mulally, Ford chief executive: $6 million in 2007, $2 million base salary for 2008

As we see, cuts are being made at all levels of the company and this is a good thing. But are they enough? If you are inclined to say yes, you should know these numbers represent only the base salaries for the mentioned executives. They do not include stock options or bonuses.

At Chrysler Tom LaSorda's last reported amount was $5.39 million in salary, benefits, bonus payments and stock
awards.
Since Chrysler is a private company, unlike the publicly traded GM, is not obligated to make his compensation public.


The  Japanese Corps are NOT asking their workers, from the bottom up, for ANY pay cuts.

Detroit????

LaSorda has just told a Canadian House of Commons Committee that Chrysler needs 30% of total payments back from it's 10,000 Canadian workers OR they will leave.
Chrysler is seeking US$2.3 billion from the Canadian government, plus a break on a fight over taxes and major sacrifices from the Canadian Auto Workers.
Will that alone save Chrysler?    Don't think so.

Wagoner has told the US Congress Committee he was working for a $1.00

LaSorda has said "No comment'" when asked what his pay cut is.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019
You seem like a nice guy... and i don't wish you or the other workers any bad wishes... but the UAW is a dinosaur...
and i'm not sure what you are trying to get across with the japanese/US comparison... the big 3 ceos made a fortune up until recently...
You can try and convince everyone that GM and the Unions are all A-OK but they reality is that the unions are your enemy...
they have priced the avg worker out of the competitive job market...
  It's not just my opinion but reality in the form of GM sinking everyday... trying to
keep all the union obligations going in addition to just trying to run a profitable company... which isn't happening...
Love is the answer
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina
Karbin, you make some good points here.

I wasn't aware of Toyota's own bailouts from the Japanese government.  The more I think about it though, the more I prefer that sort of thing.

I would rather Japanese citizens foot the costs of auto bailouts than have to foot them myself.

As far as the union question goes, while there is undoubtedly lobbyism at work here, I find it hard to sympathize with union interests.  Granted, I come from a non-union state (North Carolina).
Karbin
Member
+42|6597
Congress points at Toyota and tells Ford,GM and Chrysler, "Match them"
Ok
How about the Board's? the CEO's?
Don't think that's happening

Oh........
And so far no ones saying anything?
As to the union thing.........   read robert reich's blog I posted.
Theres more going on then meets the eye.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina

Karbin wrote:

Congress points at Toyota and tells Ford,GM and Chrysler, "Match them"
Ok
How about the Board's? the CEO's?
Don't think that's happening

Oh........
And so far no ones saying anything?
As to the union thing.........   read robert reich's blog I posted.
Theres more going on then meets the eye.
Yeah, but Toyota isn't asking for bailout money from our government, so they don't have any leverage.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

Karbin wrote:

Congress points at Toyota and tells Ford,GM and Chrysler, "Match them"
Ok
How about the Board's? the CEO's?
Don't think that's happening

Oh........
And so far no ones saying anything?
As to the union thing.........   read robert reich's blog I posted.
Theres more going on then meets the eye.
not sure what you are saying...  the boards and the CEOs?
Congress is telling the big 3 to be more like Toyota?   

and GM will be bankrupt soon and that will be the end of the UAW for them... and then if they choose and i hope they will...
they can rebuild on a stronger base and become great again... 

What other solution is there... give GM 25-30 billion very 3 months to keep them afloat?
Love is the answer
Karbin
Member
+42|6597
One of the conditions for the Detroit 3 was to match Toyota in cost's. The UAW had given back and agreed to take over the pension and health plans from GM. GM has defaulted on their second and last payment to that plan.
Three weeks after the UAW and GM cut hourly pay, and created two tier wages, Toyota cut their hourly rate by 2%.
The problem is that Toyota has shown they will lead the race to the bottom of the pay pool. This will affect more then just the auto industry. Wages across the board will be pushed down for all hourly workers.
And the government is pushing it along.
If you read the Toyota link you will see the Toyota can tap a fund that has 1 trillion bucks in it.
Lets not forget that the "Match Toyota" call came from...
Kentucky (Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell) already has Toyota's biggest auto assembly plant outside Japan.
Tennessee (Senate Rep. Bob Corker, who came up with the "chapter 11" bailout amendment) houses Nissan's North American headquarters. Alabama (Senate Rep. Richard Shelby) hosts Mercedez Benz and several other foreign automakers.
The point with the BoDs and CEO's was what they make compared to their counterparts over at Toyota

Last edited by Karbin (2009-03-12 19:04:22)

Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019
ahhh gotcha... that does suck... but i imagine people will quit when the money gets too low and work somewhere else depending on their skillset...
and about the govt... they are hoping to get everyone hooked on the govt teet... because they know what's best for us...lol

My question to you is... How can a car company be profitable with the pay and benefits as good and high as they are due to union negotiations...
Can GM raise the prices of all the cars and tell everyone to buy American?  What ideas do you have?
Love is the answer
Karbin
Member
+42|6597

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

ahhh gotcha... that does suck... but i imagine people will quit when the money gets too low and work somewhere else depending on their skillset...
and about the govt... they are hoping to get everyone hooked on the govt teet... because they know what's best for us...lol

My question to you is... How can a car company be profitable with the pay and benefits as good and high as they are due to union negotiations...
Can GM raise the prices of all the cars and tell everyone to buy American?  What ideas do you have?
Heres a better one.
How much of the price of a vehicle is hourly pay and benefits?
Yes, I do know the answer.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6952

Given purchasing power parity, $5billion is going to accomplish a lot less in Japan than it would in the States.
Karbin
Member
+42|6597

ghettoperson wrote:

Given purchasing power parity, $5billion is going to accomplish a lot less in Japan than it would in the States.
Ahhh.....but that money is coming FROM Japan TO the States. So it would be 5 Bill USD.
Karbin
Member
+42|6597

Karbin wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

ahhh gotcha... that does suck... but i imagine people will quit when the money gets too low and work somewhere else depending on their skillset...
and about the govt... they are hoping to get everyone hooked on the govt teet... because they know what's best for us...lol

My question to you is... How can a car company be profitable with the pay and benefits as good and high as they are due to union negotiations...
Can GM raise the prices of all the cars and tell everyone to buy American?  What ideas do you have?
Heres a better one.
How much of the price of a vehicle is hourly pay and benefits?
Yes, I do know the answer.
Here's the real.

Depending on the vehicle, all in labour cost's is 5-7% of the WHOLESALE cost. Management's all in cost's are 7-10%. Then double, at least, the wholesale price and you get close to the sticker price.
I know that some of the vehicle's coming off the line are sold to the public at 4-6 times the wholesale cost. You can see this right now, check the prices for models out there that have been running for the past two years. The check the price of the same new car today.
Their still making money on them ....just not as much...to move them.

One last thing to consider.
GM at this time, has around 50,000 retiree's.
Toyota has around 5,000.
The Government is holding Toyota up as the target corp to match.
So, Detroit get penalised for being in business longer, and penalises the workers for being with that corp instead of another.
Karbin
Member
+42|6597
Since some have been a little ticked about the "Paid time off"  I thought I'd let you see a list of time off from some other country's. Just to see how much time off there is in the States and Canada.


Country/Region Minimum Paid
                       Vacation Days                               Paid public holidays     Total
Australia               2                                                    11                      (avg.) 31
Austria                 25                                                   13                         38
Belgium                20                                                  10                         30
Bulgaria                20                                                  12                        32
Canada                 10                                                  10                      (avg.) 20
Cyprus                  21                                                  15                        36
Czech Rep.            20                                                  11                        31
Denmark               25                                                  10                        35
Egypt                    21                                                  16                        37
Estonia                  28                                                  10                        38
Finland                   30                                                  14                        44
France                   30                                                  10                        40
Germany               24                                                   10                        34
Greece                   25                                                  12                        37
Hong Kong             14                                                   12                        26
Hungary                 23 (if over thirty-one yrs old)            10                        33
India                      12                                                   19                        31
Indonesia               12                                                   13                        25
Ireland                   20                                                     9                        29
Israel                     24                                                   16                      (avg.) 40
Italy                       20                                                   11                          31
Japan                      20                                                  15                          35
Latvia                     20                                                   11                          31
Lebanon                  15                                                   18                          33
Lithuania                 28                                                   12                          40
Luxembourg            25                                                   10                          35
Malaysia                  16                                                  12 + state holidays 28 + state holidays
Malta                       24                                                   14                          38
Morocco                   21                                                   19                          40
Netherlands             20                                                     8                           28
New Zealand            20                                                   11                          31
Pakistan                  14                                                    14                           28
Philippines                 5                                                    14                          19
Poland                     26                                                    10                           36
Portugal                   22                                                    12                          34
Romania                  21                                                     7                           28
Singapore                14                                                    12                          26
Slovakia                   20                                                   15                          35
Slovenia                   20                                                   16                          36
South Africa              21                                                   12                           33
South Korea              19                                                   11                           30
Spain                       22                                                    14                           36
Sweden                    25                                                    11                           36
Taiwan                     14                                                    11                           25
Thailand                     6                                                    13                            19
United Arab Emirates 30                                                     9                            39
United Kingdom         20                                                     8                            28
United States            15                                                    10                           25
Vietnam                   14                                                      8                              22

Last edited by Karbin (2009-03-18 18:09:18)

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard