Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6297|Truthistan
Here is an associated press story where a report was made about the poor state of American health care.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/health/40 … gap12.html

Basically the story states that Americans pay 2 1/2 times more per capita than any other advnaced country and our labor force is less healthy.
That the health care costs are a drag on the economy and that having a less healthy work force relative to other countries is another drag on the economy.

I have always maintained that the only thing that the govt owes to the market and private companies is a supply of a well educated and healthy citizens for the labor force. From a pragmatic perspective the economy would be much better off with a govt run health care system. It would be cheaper and give better results. But of course on the other side you would be sacrificing, at least to some degree, the private nature of the health care industry as it exists today. But, that sacrifice would be a benefit to the overall economy and help to make the country more productive and prosperous overall. IMO

Pragmatically it makes a lot of economic sense. Its craxy to think that we a spending $2.4 trillion a year on health care right now, when other countries, based on pro capita ratios, would be spending $1 trillion and everyone would be covered. It boggles the mind at the waste that must exist in the present system.

It reminds me of the story where the Americans and the Canadians were negotiating the Free Trade Agreement (before NAFTA) and the Americans wanted the Canadians to give up their national health care because the national healthcare system gave Canadian companies an unfair economic advantage.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7064

nah.. i dont feel like paying for a smokers health problems for example.
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5888

usmarine wrote:

nah.. i dont feel like paying for a smokers health problems for example.
I thought you smoked?
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7064

Macbeth wrote:

usmarine wrote:

nah.. i dont feel like paying for a smokers health problems for example.
I thought you smoked?
no.  but that is not the point.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6903|132 and Bush

Does the OP realize that the government is already mismanaging the money? Our government already taxes more for health care than any other nation.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5888

usmarine wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

usmarine wrote:

nah.. i dont feel like paying for a smokers health problems for example.
I thought you smoked?
no.  but that is not the point.
I know, it sucks paying for people who did it to themselves.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

Diesal I disagree when you say private health care would suffer. I believe it would improve significantly should they then have to also compete with government provided health services.

You either cut costs or improve standards to attract consumers. And health care providers don't have the option to cut costs. You cut costs and standards drop, quality suffers and that option is unacceptable to the public when they decide on a health plan or provider.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7009
Our labor force being more or less healthy has little to do with the quality of health care in America.  Therefore, examining health of our labor force is not a good indicator of our quality of health care.  Besides, it's not realistic for them to limit the quality of health to the labor force.
Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7146|Reykjavík, Iceland.
Socialism not so bad now, eh? Free health care is one of the most important things imo.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7019
McDonalds.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7077|Noizyland

Hey I just watched "Sicko" on TV. Fully aware that Michael Moore is more one-sided than a piece of sandpaper I have to ask - what's the response to all that? I mean sure, no-one wants to pay for the fat guy's health problems or the problems of the chain smoker but other countries do it, as well as the health problems of everyone else. It works out great for us in New Zealand I can tell you, even considering that ours is far from being the best healthcare system in the world. Meanwhile in America, EVERYONE has to pay, and pay through the nose at that, for health services that would be considered a right in pretty much any other country.

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Our labor force being more or less healthy has little to do with the quality of health care in America.
Fair enough, (not really but I'll go with it.) What about the fact that America has one of the worst infant mortality rates in the world? What about the fact that American life-expectancey is well below that of people in the rest of the developed world? Surely that is some indicator of the health of the US health system.

Based on my previous walks through the D&ST section I realise I write too much for anyone to be bothered reading so I'll stop now.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6987|United States of America

Cybargs wrote:

McDonalds.
This comment isn't too far from the truth. It doesn't matter how much money you throw into healthcare if you're still making poor life choices and do not seek treatment for other conditions.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6924|London, England
Yeah, I'd say the reasons why you're less healthy is most definitely not because of inadequate healthcare that you're paying too much for, you could probably make a case that you're being asked to pay too much for health insurance/hospital fee's etc.. though cos it does seem you guys pay shitloads for that.
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6954|USA

Sydney wrote:

Socialism not so bad now, eh? Free health care is one of the most important things imo.
There is that typical liberal notion that just because YOU are not saddled with the bill, it is FREE. Gotta love having your head in the sand about everything I guess.
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|7035|St. Andrews / Oslo

lowing wrote:

Sydney wrote:

Socialism not so bad now, eh? Free health care is one of the most important things imo.
There is that typical liberal notion that just because YOU are not saddled with the bill, it is FREE. Gotta love having your head in the sand about everything I guess.
kay.


paying small ammounts of your income every year so that if something really bad happens to you you don't have to worry about not affording it because you've already payed your does through taxes.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6984|Disaster Free Zone

lowing wrote:

Sydney wrote:

Socialism not so bad now, eh? Free health care is one of the most important things imo.
There is that typical liberal notion that just because YOU are not saddled with the bill, it is FREE. Gotta love having your head in the sand about everything I guess.
Yep, Free.

Like the police force, the fire fighters, the road network, the park down the street, the rubbish collectors and the local newspaper.

Lol and the schools

Last edited by DrunkFace (2009-03-12 07:44:22)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Does the OP realize that the government is already mismanaging the money? Our government already taxes more for health care than any other nation.
Source?

Last edited by Turquoise (2009-03-12 08:48:30)

Sydney
2λчиэλ
+783|7146|Reykjavík, Iceland.

lowing wrote:

Sydney wrote:

Socialism not so bad now, eh? Free health care is one of the most important things imo.
There is that typical liberal notion that just because YOU are not saddled with the bill, it is FREE. Gotta love having your head in the sand about everything I guess.
30% taxes is just something I live with and don't consider an expense. I look at my paycheck after taxes, just like I look at product prices after VAT.

Therefore

DrunkFace wrote:

the police force, the fire fighters, the road network, the park down the street, the rubbish collectors and the local newspaper.
are all indeed free in my eyes.
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6297|Truthistan

DrunkFace wrote:

lowing wrote:

Sydney wrote:

Socialism not so bad now, eh? Free health care is one of the most important things imo.
There is that typical liberal notion that just because YOU are not saddled with the bill, it is FREE. Gotta love having your head in the sand about everything I guess.
Yep, Free.

Like the police force, the fire fighters, the road network, the park down the street, the rubbish collectors and the local newspaper.

Lol and the schools
Police force, fire fighters, the roads, parks, trash collection... Those are all socialist programs, cut them all, why should I be taxed for fire fighters if some guy smokes in bed and burns his house down. Why should I pay for cops to protect someone who decides to live in a rough neighborhood where there are drug dealers, hookers and drive-byes. What's wrong with user pay for roads and rubbish???? everyone of these is populist garbage argument.


Here is a sesame street game for you

Police force, fire fighters, Health care, the roads, parks, trash collection, banks

"which of these just doesn't belong here?"

????Uhhhhhhh..... Banks!!!!!!!!! maybe parks too.

Fact is that all of these things (except banks) regard the health and safety of the public and that's the prime responsibility of govt, even the most right wing govt would be be supporting these with tax dollars. You can almost look at this a "Bullshit-0-meter" for the United States. Health care is private and access is limited, some places trash collection is private and there is more and more push to privatise roads. The next push is private water and sewer which has been done in south America (Bolivia) and resulted in a five fold increase in prices. (EDIT: and lets no forget the electric deregulation ENRON debacle. that was privatization at its finest.)

The basic bedrock of what society needs to function is slowly being undermined by those that see that these necessities could be harnessed to make huge profits because the public has no choice but to pay for these services. So the prices for these services can be jacked up sky high by profit seekers. That's why the private sector fears competition from govt run entities and they label them socialist. What is really sad is that the American public has been trained like a Pavlovian dog to have a knee jerk reaction to anything that gets labelled socialist. Govt can do it for cost and the private sector does it for cost plus profit. Which one do you think is cheaper? in the case of health care apparently its 2 1/2 time more expensive to permit a private system to exist. The less govt involvement then the more the private sector can gouge for in terms of the price they charge and in limiting the supply. The result for the US is that 40% of the people are without health insurance that creates an unhealthy workforce. Having that many people without coverage also creates economic uncertainty where a health tragedy can push these people into bankruptcy.

Its just common sense that the private sector can no longer be trusted to run the health care industry.

Last edited by Diesel_dyk (2009-03-12 09:49:08)

Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7077|Noizyland

lowing wrote:

Sydney wrote:

Socialism not so bad now, eh? Free health care is one of the most important things imo.
There is that typical liberal notion that just because YOU are not saddled with the bill, it is FREE. Gotta love having your head in the sand about everything I guess.
No, the notion is that as it's paid through taxes so when it comes to the time when you need medical attention no money changes hands. Yeah, that's free in my books.

America's got to be the only place where owning a gun is a constitutionally protected right and affordable healthcare is a privelage reserved only for those who can afford it.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019
Universal healthcare will be a disaster in the US... and i'll just let BO prove it to everyone over the next couple of years...
Maybe they can use some of the extra money they have collected in taxes from medicare or social security... oh that's right... they are broke also... darn
Love is the answer
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6486|Ireland

Kmarion wrote:

Does the OP realize that the government is already mismanaging the money? Our government already taxes more for health care than any other nation.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner and it isn't Mediscare.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7077|Noizyland

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Universal healthcare will be a disaster in the US...
What are you basing that on? The fact that universal healthcare has worked incredibly well in every other country using it?

Oh wait.
[Blinking eyes thing]
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Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6486|Ireland

Ty wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Universal healthcare will be a disaster in the US...
What are you basing that on? The fact that universal healthcare has worked incredibly well in every other country using it?

Oh wait.
The fact that the US couldn't even handle running the over funded retirement system when they took control of that, or the postal service, or the education system.......
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

Ty wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Universal healthcare will be a disaster in the US...
What are you basing that on? The fact that universal healthcare has worked incredibly well in every other country using it?

Oh wait.
This is about Universal healthcare in the US... I am not familiar with other countries healthcare situations... only heard that the care is ok in other countries and there are extended waits in some cases...  Our US govt will screw up any govt run healthcare they can get their hands on... I'll let the next couple of years in the US be my example...
Love is the answer

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