Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6845|Texas - Bigger than France
Gots the heart in the right place but I'm skeptical on the bill, and how much the government needs to be involved...

College for everyone
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29445201/

Healthcare for everyone to fight this issue (suffer thru the commercial please)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26852192/vp … 2#29389502
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

pelosi is pulling the strings.  thank her first.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

College for all, healthcare for all.

Democrats are just monsters.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6683|MN

AussieReaper wrote:

College for all, healthcare for all.

Democrats are just monsters.
Nothing like making it real simple.

I don't want to pay for health care cor all.

I don't want to pay for college for all.

How's that?
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

AussieReaper wrote:

College for all, healthcare for all.

Democrats are just monsters.
who's going to pay for it?  Can we count on you for a donation...lol
The Govt is ridiculous as you can see from our posts about how they add their own pork projects...
and they are going to enact healthcare for everyone and do it successfully... not a chance...

There aren't enough rich people in the US to cover their grandiose plans... I am laughing at the wealthy people that bought into the change we can believe in.... I believe they are having a bit of buyers remorse...   "Change... we want all of it" is the new slogan...lol
Love is the answer
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6683|MN
The top 5% of wage earners pay for 50% of the taxes, so I guess that is fair.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6845|Texas - Bigger than France

AussieReaper wrote:

College for all, healthcare for all.

Democrats are just monsters.
Hey if it happens great...the question is how do we get there?
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6954|USA

AussieReaper wrote:

College for all, healthcare for all.

Democrats are just monsters.
I guess, college for those that pay for it and govt. staying out of medical business is something that never occurred to you
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

Well, I've drawn a lot of criticism, so let me explain how University for all in Australia works.

You go to uni, after getting accepted to whatever degree you have applied for, based on achieving good grades in high school. Without them you won't get accepted.

If you don't have the average $800 per course, and remember you do 4 courses per semester, 2 semesters a year and usually 3 years of study, you are looking around the $30,000 mark typically.

To pay for this, you go on whats known as HECS. Simply means the govt. will loan you the money, interest free, which goes towards your courses and your courses only. Once you leave uni, finished your degree or pull out, whatever income you make is then taxed a higher amount which goes straight into your HECs debt. When it's payed off that extra tax is dropped. That tax is based on your income rates. The individual who made the loan pays it back.

How is that not reasonable? University degrees based on merit rather than bank balance? Which the individual pays back when they land a job. And you have the option to pay it off sooner if you have a job, and if you choose to you can pay it all up front.

Last edited by AussieReaper (2009-03-02 18:23:48)

https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

AussieReaper wrote:

Which the individual pays back when they land a job. And you have the option to pay it off sooner if you have a job, and if you choose to you can pay it all up front.
we have that option here.....
LividBovine
The Year of the Cow!
+175|6683|MN

AussieReaper wrote:

Well, I've drawn a lot of criticism, so let me explain how University for all in Australia works.

You go to uni, after getting accepted to whatever degree you have applied for, based on achieving good grades in high school. Without them you won't get accepted.

If you don't have the average $800 per course, and remember you do 4 courses per semester, 2 semesters a year and usually 3 years of study, you are looking around the $30,000 mark typically.

To pay for this, you go on whats known as HECS. Simply means the govt. will loan you the money, interest free, which goes towards your courses and your courses only. Once you leave uni, finished your degree or pull out, whatever income you make is then taxed a higher amount which goes straight into your HECs debt. When it's payed off that extra tax is dropped. That tax is based on your income rates. The individual who made the loan pays it back.

How is that not reasonable? University degrees based on merit rather than bank balance? Which the individual pays back when they land a job. And you have the option to pay it off sooner if you have a job, and if you choose to you can pay it all up front.
Problem is that Obama wants education for all to be from birth to graduation. 

And what about the healthcare issue?  Got a plan for that?
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6954|USA

AussieReaper wrote:

Well, I've drawn a lot of criticism, so let me explain how University for all in Australia works.

You go to uni, after getting accepted to whatever degree you have applied for, based on achieving good grades in high school. Without them you won't get accepted.

If you don't have the average $800 per course, and remember you do 4 courses per semester, 2 semesters a year and usually 3 years of study, you are looking around the $30,000 mark typically.

To pay for this, you go on whats known as HECS. Simply means the govt. will loan you the money, interest free, which goes towards your courses and your courses only. Once you leave uni, finished your degree or pull out, whatever income you make is then taxed a higher amount which goes straight into your HECs debt. When it's payed off that extra tax is dropped. That tax is based on your income rates. The individual who made the loan pays it back.

How is that not reasonable? University degrees based on merit rather than bank balance? Which the individual pays back when they land a job. And you have the option to pay it off sooner if you have a job, and if you choose to you can pay it all up front.
Some individual states, through the lottery, pays college tuition for students with good grades at a 100%. No loans required, only ambition and good grades.

The federal govt. also have govt grants and loans for people for those that apply and qualify

So please tell me what is the problem?
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

usmarine wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Which the individual pays back when they land a job. And you have the option to pay it off sooner if you have a job, and if you choose to you can pay it all up front.
we have that option here.....
You did read how Obama would likely try to get everyone into college, didn't you?

First, we must get serious about high schools. Instead of preparing some for college and others for the jailhouse, we need to help high schools prepare every student for college.

Second, we have to dramatically improve results for low-income and minority students, now more than half of our youth. Increasing their success is the only way to ensure our national success.

Finally, colleges need to accept some responsibility for improving graduation rates. (See collegeresults.org for information on any college.) That includes holding costs down, and focusing not just on getting students in the door but out with degrees. Yes, students need to work harder. But what colleges do matters a lot.
Improving high schools? Focusing on lower income and minority students to encourage them to apply to college? And improving colleges graduation rates?

LividBovine wrote:

Problem is that Obama wants education for all to be from birth to graduation.

And what about the healthcare issue?  Got a plan for that?
No, I don't know about how the health care would work in the states. It's probably unachievable in the short term, maybe not even in Obamas time in office.

lowing wrote:

Some individual states, through the lottery, pays college tuition for students with good grades at a 100%. No loans required, only ambition and good grades.

The federal govt. also have govt grants and loans for people for those that apply and qualify

So please tell me what is the problem?
Some, not all? It's just a Lottery... It's only for grades at 100%. Why not make that available to more people? Hurting the education standards in America only hurts the countries success as a nation.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6845|Texas - Bigger than France

AussieReaper wrote:

Well, I've drawn a lot of criticism, so let me explain how University for all in Australia works.

You go to uni, after getting accepted to whatever degree you have applied for, based on achieving good grades in high school. Without them you won't get accepted.

If you don't have the average $800 per course, and remember you do 4 courses per semester, 2 semesters a year and usually 3 years of study, you are looking around the $30,000 mark typically.

To pay for this, you go on whats known as HECS. Simply means the govt. will loan you the money, interest free, which goes towards your courses and your courses only. Once you leave uni, finished your degree or pull out, whatever income you make is then taxed a higher amount which goes straight into your HECs debt. When it's payed off that extra tax is dropped. That tax is based on your income rates. The individual who made the loan pays it back.

How is that not reasonable? University degrees based on merit rather than bank balance? Which the individual pays back when they land a job. And you have the option to pay it off sooner if you have a job, and if you choose to you can pay it all up front.
We have the same thing here.  Pell grants aka interest free loans.

I believe the big O is talking about mandatory university education paid for by the government, but I could be wrong (like I'm actually going to read the entire link since it's a pipe dream)
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7065

AussieReaper wrote:

You did read how Obama would likely try to get everyone into college, didn't you?
we have that option here.....
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6845|Texas - Bigger than France
nvm, someone posted already
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

AussieReaper wrote:

Well, I've drawn a lot of criticism, so let me explain how University for all in Australia works.

You go to uni, after getting accepted to whatever degree you have applied for, based on achieving good grades in high school. Without them you won't get accepted.

If you don't have the average $800 per course, and remember you do 4 courses per semester, 2 semesters a year and usually 3 years of study, you are looking around the $30,000 mark typically.

To pay for this, you go on whats known as HECS. Simply means the govt. will loan you the money, interest free, which goes towards your courses and your courses only. Once you leave uni, finished your degree or pull out, whatever income you make is then taxed a higher amount which goes straight into your HECs debt. When it's payed off that extra tax is dropped. That tax is based on your income rates. The individual who made the loan pays it back.

How is that not reasonable? University degrees based on merit rather than bank balance? Which the individual pays back when they land a job. And you have the option to pay it off sooner if you have a job, and if you choose to you can pay it all up front.
great ideas... but what do you tell the people that think they are entitled to college that didn't get good grades... the age of entitlement is here and you cant discriminate against people who have done nothing to help themselves... that would be mean and unfair...

check this out... we need to drop this entitlement bullshit now
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl … youth.html
Love is the answer
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

great ideas... but what do you tell the people that think they are entitled to college that didn't get good grades... the age of entitlement is here and you cant discriminate against people who have done nothing to help themselves... that would be mean and unfair...
You send them a letter of rejection...

As for your article, that's just saying there are students out there who think they will default to an A each semester. That's never the case, and if they think that they get punished for it come exam time.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019

AussieReaper wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

great ideas... but what do you tell the people that think they are entitled to college that didn't get good grades... the age of entitlement is here and you cant discriminate against people who have done nothing to help themselves... that would be mean and unfair...
You send them a letter of rejection...

As for your article, that's just saying there are students out there who think they will default to an A each semester. That's never the case, and if they think that they get punished for it come exam time.
we would hope so... but there are a lot of people that spend 50k a year for college and expect good grades for just showing up to class... the whole idea of education is personal enrichment and learning skills to provide you with the tools for a career... showing up isn't good enough...
Love is the answer
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

It's not like just showing up and expecting an A means they will get one. As I said, those students will face the consequences of their actions. It's just like everything else in life, you get out as much as you put in.

If Obama does everything possible to get more numbers into college, America will be exponentially better. And it's likely to get more people off entitlement because they now have a higher earning ability.

I was really surprised to read that 1 out of 4 drop out of high school. That's a terrible statistic. 25% are doomed to live on poor incomes (or the majority would be) because they couldn't even finish high school. It's those people who then burden the tax payer more than the college educated or even high school graduated Americans.

If improving high school graduation rates is one of the first steps to Obama's plan, I can see nothing wrong with it as a start.

Last edited by AussieReaper (2009-03-02 19:04:18)

https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7019
I would love for 100 percent of the kids to graduate from highschool... but a lot of them can't be bothered with graduating.... hanging out at the mall and seeing if you can have a kid before you are 18... stuff like that is more important...lol

I would be willing to bet that if you gave everyone in the US free college... a lot of them wouldn't take the time to fill out the paperwork...(i know i sound negative but its true)...  There are plenty of scholarships available in the US and if you really want to go to college you can... My niece has 25k in scholarships towards her first year of college... She needs another 10k (school is 35k a year) and will take out loans which are also available...   

Wouldn't society be great if everyone was accountable and was willing to work hard for what they believed in...
and the people that just wanted to get by... no problem... just dont complain when you see someone with more money than you...
While you were watching american idol or playing guitar hero... the successful person was working long hours and skipping the hottest reality shows on TV...lol

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-03-02 19:16:01)

Love is the answer
imortal
Member
+240|6968|Austin, TX
A few points to make:

  -So, will the tradescraft become a Bachelor's Degree?  HVAC repair, Plumbing, Auto Mechanic?  Will the people on the assembly line all have a BA in Demand Driven Auto Manufacure?  You can rest assured that the person taking your order at McDonalds will be studying for his exams between cars. 

  -If everyone has a bachelors degree, they cease to be anything special.  A while back, you could get a whole lot of jobs with just a High School diploma (sometimes with not even that much- my dad was a high school dropout and he ended up a paramedic); the ones who went to college got a really cool high pay job.  Mr. Fancy Pants.  Then, sometime around Vietnam, there was a huge glut in the number of kids out there with degrees.  Suddenly, there weren't enough college-only jobs, and some of those 'better educated' folks started edging out people with HS diplomas right out the door.  That has been continuing to this day.  It is getting to the point that those jobs you used to need a Bachlors for now requires a Masters or better.  If everyone has a degree, it will cease to mean anything.

  -The huge push to get all of these people into college will create huge strains on the systems.  Imagine tripling the sizes of most the major colleges around. Where are you going to put the extra buildings?  Are all of these people going to be in dorms?  How about teachers?  If you have to triple the size of your teaching workforce (along with every other college out there), you are either going to have to offer a whole lot more money, or you are going to have to lower your standards to the breaking point.  Crappy teachers=crappy education.  After all, there is already a teaching shortage now.

  -There are a lot of people who just are not able to make it in college.  This is either because they do not have the intelligence for it, or maybe not the drive or desire, the abilty to apply themselves or actually learn.  That is why they suffer in high school.  High schools that are already producing an astonishing number of functioning illiterates even now.  The advocates would have you believe it is because the system is holding down minorities and not giving them a chance.  To a degree, this is even true.  I think the real trouble lies in two different directions, though.  First, it is the cultures of some areas that hold them down, not the system.  Some minorities are even ridiculed for trying to become a part of mainstream society (or 'playing the white man's game).  I think the big one, though, is that someone is always on the back end of the bell-curve, no matter what ethnicity you are talking about. It is that thing about drive.  There are some people who are absolutely driven to succeed; most of us fall somewhere in the middle (the bell, after all), and someone is inevitably on the back end.  For every person who scores in the top 1% of your class, think of the one that makes up the bottom 1%.

EDITED for spelling, since it is the height of irony to have really obvious spelling errors while discussing illiteracy.  I make no claim that all my spelling is correct, or even understandable.

Last edited by imortal (2009-03-02 19:33:53)

AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

imortal, it's about getting more people into college, your talking about 100% of people which is nonsensical.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6954|USA

AussieReaper wrote:

imortal, it's about getting more people into college, your talking about 100% of people which is nonsensical.
You are missing the fact that there are already provisions and options in place for those who are serious about college.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

imortal, it's about getting more people into college, your talking about 100% of people which is nonsensical.
You are missing the fact that there are already provisions and options in place for those who are serious about college.
You are missing the fact that 1 out of 4 kids dropping out before finishing high school is unacceptable and that the education standards in America will result in a less competitive market, both globally and on the local scale.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

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