BF2S Forums Holder: US a nation of cowards on racial matters

^ lol, the thing is near where I live you don't want to hang out in the bad neighborhoods it is not the safest place specifically for criminal reasons. Plus it is not like I have a legally good defense if I do.

Warhammer wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090218/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/holder_race

Put some certain specific points please. I am confused as to where he is getting at. Are we cowards in saying stuff even though the reason being would be so we don't get sued. Say something against blacks over accusing someone of hate crimes or "racial matter" then you have my support. Like the exaggerated Don Imus case.

He must not travel much.  I can't say this from personal experience, but most people I've known who do travel abroad have always commented on how race relations tend to be a lot worse in many countries outside of America.

For example, a friend of mine spent some time studying abroad in Russia, and a black friend she was with experienced a lot of prejudice there -- a lot more than the friend experienced here.

In another case, I have an Asian friend (Korean) who dealt with a lot more prejudice in France than she ever dealt with here.

If anything, one thing America tends to be more liberal and tolerant about than most of the world is race.  A lot of the reason why we have more racial conflicts than many other countries is because of how diverse we are.  With more races to come into contact with, there's a higher chance of conflict.

Last edited by Turquoise (2009-02-18 17:44:16)

S.Lythberg wrote:

we're cowards because minority students who are grossly underqualified get accepted into prestigious universities at the expense of taxpayers and actual students, I see it every day.

True...  affirmative action is definitely a ploy for cowards.

If Holder had been talking about that, I guess I'd have to agree with him.  Of course, he wasn't...

S.Lythberg wrote:

we're cowards because minority students who are grossly underqualified get accepted into prestigious universities at the expense of taxpayers and actual students, I see it every day.

Grossly underqualified or not at the top of their class?  I'm just wondering here, because I see people decry affirmative action all the time but I just never see the numbers to back it up.  I'm not saying you are wrong or right, just that I never see anything concrete to back up assertions like yours.

If 'x' student places in the top 10% which allows him entrance, then he is accepted over student 'y' who also places in that top 10% but at a higher level, is it really discrimination?

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

we're cowards because minority students who are grossly underqualified get accepted into prestigious universities at the expense of taxpayers and actual students, I see it every day.

Grossly underqualified or not at the top of their class?  I'm just wondering here, because I see people decry affirmative action all the time but I just never see the numbers to back it up.  I'm not saying you are wrong or right, just that I never see anything concrete to back up assertions like yours.

If 'x' student places in the top 10% which allows him entrance, then he is accepted over student 'y' who also places in that top 10% but at a higher level, is it really discrimination?

You know what the worst thing about affirmative action is?  It creates a situation where rich black students get access to the same benefits as poor black students.  The rich black students can afford things like private tutors so they typically scoop up a big portion of benefits that are more aimed at helping poorer blacks.

So, in effect, the system was created to lessen inequalities between races that are mostly derived from class, but because they're race-based instead of class-based, they merely magnify inequalities within race.

If we're going to have affirmative action, it should be based purely on class, not race.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

we're cowards because minority students who are grossly underqualified get accepted into prestigious universities at the expense of taxpayers and actual students, I see it every day.

Grossly underqualified or not at the top of their class?  I'm just wondering here, because I see people decry affirmative action all the time but I just never see the numbers to back it up.  I'm not saying you are wrong or right, just that I never see anything concrete to back up assertions like yours.

If 'x' student places in the top 10% which allows him entrance, then he is accepted over student 'y' who also places in that top 10% but at a higher level, is it really discrimination?

Numbers are hard to find because people are scared to publish them (I'm finding it nearly impossible to find the breakdown here), but let's just say that some of the people I've come across are certainly not university material.

Turquoise wrote:

He must not travel much.  I can't say this from personal experience, but most people I've known who do travel abroad have always commented on how race relations tend to be a lot worse in many countries outside of America.

Maybe they're so used to the way race relations are in the US they just don't notice it.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

we're cowards because minority students who are grossly underqualified get accepted into prestigious universities at the expense of taxpayers and actual students, I see it every day.

Grossly underqualified or not at the top of their class?  I'm just wondering here, because I see people decry affirmative action all the time but I just never see the numbers to back it up.  I'm not saying you are wrong or right, just that I never see anything concrete to back up assertions like yours.

If 'x' student places in the top 10% which allows him entrance, then he is accepted over student 'y' who also places in that top 10% but at a higher level, is it really discrimination?

The discrimination occurs when student x is accepted solely because he/she is not the same color/sex as student y.

Happened to me. If I had been female, I would have received an academic full ride based on my ACT score. As it turned out, a female student (who scored lower on her ACT) got the scholarship. Identical academic records. She gets a lower score and gets the scholarship. My guidance counselors (one male, one female) both said the only reason I didn't get it and she did was because she was female.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Until we get rid of affirmative action, this country will always have race/sexism problems. It is racism/sexism...pure and simple.

Stingray24 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

If we're going to have affirmative action, it should be based purely on class, not race.

QFT

I would rather not have it all, how about we just go with the most qualified individual for the job shall we?

I have started checking "decline to answer" box on my school forms.


On another note:
The US is a nation of self segregation, and a nation of reverse racism. If you look Malcolm X or Luis Farrakhan, their rhetoric sounds just the same as those in the KKK and neo-nazi's , only black and Jew are replaced with white.

Turquoise wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

He must not travel much.  I can't say this from personal experience, but most people I've known who do travel abroad have always commented on how race relations tend to be a lot worse in many countries outside of America.

Maybe they're so used to the way race relations are in the US they just don't notice it.

True, that's a possibility....

Still, it's kind of hard to say we're racially cowardly given how open we are.

We take in more immigrants than most countries -- even per capita.   We're essentially a nation of immigrants.

For Holder to call us racial cowards shows how out of touch he is.  All he has to do is go to NYC, DC, Chicago, LA, Miami, etc.   We do talk about race.  Hell, sometimes we even riot about it (like in Oakland).

I'm willing to bet he doesn't hang out with a bunch of brothas from da hood on the weekends. More like Niles and Blaine down at the Marina.