BF2S Forums Should America stop helping countries that don't like them?

dubbs wrote:

The US has helped out a lot of countries, then those countries ended up hurting the US.   Heart_Attack, you said we are narrow minded, but look what happened to us in WWII.  We basically gave Japan our scrap metal.  They created one of the world’s most powerful Navy out of it.  Thousands of US Arm Forces lost their lives because we helped Japan. We are to narrow minded.  We helped Russia in WWII.  They turned their back on us when we attacked Japan.  It lead to a 40 year cold war.  We are to narrow minded.  We orginally supported Iraq in the Iran/Iraq war, and aided Saddam to power.  He would not let the UN inspect his chemical sites freely.  Plus he started a war in 1991.  Again, we are to narrow minded.  The Taliban was backed by the US in the 80's because they were fighting the USSR.  They then accepted the man who helped kill thousands of Americans on 9/11.  We are to narrow minded.  We give Pakistan aid, they will not allow us to search for bin Laden on their side of the Afghan border.  Then again we are to narrow minded.   

So Heart_Attack, how narrow minded are we are we really?  Does Austria have stories like that?  Do you guys give aid to nations that end up killing your people?  If this happened to your country would you support the nations that want to see you dead?  Would you give aid to your enemy, so that in the future they can kill you, your family, and your friends?  Would you stop aid to a nation that hated you so much they would kill thousands of inocent Austrian citizen in a few hour if not minutes?  Woud you allow support to a nation that may one day start a war that may kill your bothers, and sisters?  Would you allow support to a nation that make Austria live in fear each day for forty years?  How narrow minded would you be then?


Edit, the rest of my comments on this thread, had to get that first one out fast because it made me upset.

B.Schuss wrote:

Strangely enough, if the British Empire had followed your advice in the late 18th century, there would be no USA today. They sure tried, but they couldn't pull it off. I am sure you can do better...

Is that the reason for the war in 1842?  You all only supported us to make money during the 18th century.  If we did not help in WWII Britian would be not be around today. 

PS: I like the British and think that US, Britian and Israel could take on the whole world togther and win.  Just when people say stupid things like this with out facts make me upset.

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

"US aid, which acquired an increasingly military flavour during the Regan years, is now concentrated on a relatively small number of countries of special political importance."

    "Introduction to International Politics" by Heater & Berridge 1992, p80

Do you really think US foreign aid is about helping suffering people?

So that is why we give so much aid to South Africa to combat their Aids issue.  A lot of aid is political, for every nation, but some is not.  Shut up if you can not give all of the fact, but only half of them.

headrippa wrote:

The rest of the world would do just nicely without your involvement. It's you that would suffer in the long run, as most of your resources are 2nd grade compared to other parts of the world, plus the fact your over 8 trillion dollars in debt.

I am guessing you live in Europe because of your comments, lets hope you don't live in France.  Here is a list of the debt of the larger European countries in US dollars: 

Spain: $1.249 trillion
Germany: $3.626 trillion
Italy: $1.682 trillion
France: $2.826 trillion
United Kingdom: $7.107 trillion

That is funny that everyone looks at the US debt.  If nations would pay us back, like France (who we helped during their revolt agaist their king), when we help them the US would not be in so much debt.  Also, if we did not give aid to those nations that do not like us, we could........wait for it....... pay off our debt. 

Also, on the comment that the world could do better without us, I think not.  We helped Europe in WWI and II.  We are the glue that holds the UN together, that is why everything is US led, and supported.  (That brings up another point, it you guys gave more to the UN, then we could use the money that we usally give some where else.)  If what resources (I am assuming that you mean developments/inventions that help the world) is second grad compared to other parts of the world, then lets see what they could create if they did not use technology that was invited, tested, and/or improved in the US.  Just for you to make you post the US had invited, and/or improved on these things: (just off the top of my head)

Internet invented in the US (with US money) (If we made other nations pay a fee for using TCP/IP we would not be in debt)
Computers invented in the US (ERMAC for USA defense)
transistor invented in the US (almost every electronic device you own has at least one, sold to Mr. Sony)
Electricity (we first learned how to safely control electric in large amounts in the US but Telsa was close)
Telephone US again.
TV (technology that is used in your monitor, unless it is a flat screen) Again the US

So lets take all of your countries resources and compare it to that.  Natural resource we have a lot of them.  Remember that Britian did not want to give up the US because of the resources along the very edge of the east coast.  They did not even know about the west coast, of anything west of the Appalachian Mountains yet.

Source: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac … 9rank.html

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

dubbs wrote:

The US has helped out a lot of countries, then those countries ended up hurting the US........

Hes good...  Its hard to argue with facts ...

Renegade2k9 wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

Renegade2k9 wrote:

And what's that crap about Europe stabbing the US in the back ? When and how exactly did we do that?


Where have you been in a cave with your eyes closed and fingers in your ears for the past three or so years? Europe has been bitching nonstop about our actions in the world, personally I don't understand why you even care? Last time I checked Europe wasn't even in the same region as the Middle East. Some believe that Germany and France had secret deals with Iraq and I am thinking this is why Europe is so angry with our actions because when we invaded Iraq we killed any deals that those countries had with Iraq. I was looking through wikipedia and found this attached to a article called "Anti-Americanism" and it states:

"Overall, the most common theme of many critics is that anti-Americanism is usually irrational in tone, and they thus distinguish it from simple criticism over policy. They argue that many manfestations of anti-American protest are thus based on sheer anger, jealously, bitterness, spite, or cruelty. Gestures such as flag burning, for example, might be disregarded as hysterical or "crazed". "

Seems ignorance is universal no matter where you go including Europe.

Ok, let's get to it. You call criticizing US foreign policy "stabbing in the back" ? So, mainland Europe ( with the exception of PM Blair ) didn't approve of the war in Iraq and all of a sudden, we are the bad guys ?
Who is the ignorant one now ?
Our constitution forbids our armed forces to conduct military operations outside of germany, with the sole exception of NATO or UN mandates ( and even those were difficult to push through in parliament ). There was no UN mandate for a military operation in Iraq at the time, so why would you have expected us to go in there ? just because you said so ? Other nations may have chosen differently, but then again, those did not start 2 world wars in the 20th century...

Last time I checked, the US wasn't in the middle east either. So why would you care what's going on there ?
The US helped put Saddam in Power, when it seemed to fit their foreign policy at the time. So you had the responsibility to deal with him when he turned into a brutal dictator. You did that. Kudos to you. At least you clean up after yourselves.
I have never burned an american flag. And until you prove to me that anything my country has done was done out of "anger, jealously, bitterness, spite, or cruelty" towards the US, I shall take your comments as a manifestation of your own ignorance. Your ability to copy and paste from Wikipedia doesn't impress me one bit.
My country is doing what it can in the War on Terror, including supporting the US forces in Afghanistan. It may come as a surprise to you, but german soldiers have died on these missions.
I certainly will not allow you to diminish their efforts just because it fits your political agenda.

Whatever I can give a flying f**k what you think about me or my country. If your country or Europe didn't want to be involved just say no. Instead your country and the rest of Europe went on a non stoping campaign of bitching for the past three years. So please STFU no one here is impressed with your cry baby tactics.

Please tell me what we are getting out of being in Iraq? Nothing as far as I can see, the little oil (the only possible thing they have that we want) that is being tapped from that country isn't comming here. So what else is there? All we did was remove a dictator, I think it was at the wrong time though. Should of been done during the first gulf war.

Anyway about the comment I copied and pasted was based on a critism of Anti-Americanism, just to show why Anti-Americanism is so widespread. I said this more than a few times what we do is in our best interest not Europe or even the rest of the world. In the past I am sure Europe has done similar things in its interest and only its interest.  Finally analyzing a person in a negative way especially one you never met in person is a fairly ignorant trait, so please don't go and label people you know nothing about.

B.Schuss wrote:

dubbs wrote:

....

B.Schuss wrote:

Strangely enough, if the British Empire had followed your advice in the late 18th century, there would be no USA today. They sure tried, but they couldn't pull it off. I am sure you can do better...

Is that the reason for the war in 1842?  You all only supported us to make money during the 18th century.  If we did not help in WWII Britian would be not be around today. 

PS: I like the British and think that US, Britian and Israel could take on the whole world togther and win.  Just when people say stupid things like this with out facts make me upset.

You are quoting me out of context. I was responding to MrPieeater, who wrote this with regard to people protesting perceived repression:

MrPieeater wrote:

I say lets those idiots riot and then starve.  Who needs them, people who riot deserve to die.  "Help, help, I'm being repressed!"  Screw that.  Riot = stupid people...

I found it rather ironic that someone from the US would look at people protesting against perceived repression like that. After all, the USA were conceived after the british colonists had rioted against repression through the british empire...

Obviously, the irony was lost on him. My apologies.

Your comment on the war of 1842 and the US helping the british in WWII confuses me a little.
1. what does the war of 1842 have to do with my comments on MrPieeater's  comments on rioters ?
2. I am from germany. why do you bring up the british in that context ?

Or did the latter parts of your answer not have anything to do with my comments ?

Last edited by dubbs (2006-03-21 07:45:29)

Spark wrote:

Can someone name ONE developed country that is NOT in debt?

Please?

Anybody?

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

MrPieeater wrote:

I say lets those idiots riot and then starve.  Who needs them, people who riot deserve to die.  "Help, help, I'm being repressed!"  Screw that.  Riot = stupid people...

I found it rather ironic that someone from the US would look at people protesting against perceived repression like that. After all, the USA were conceived after the british colonists had rioted against repression through the british empire...

I can see your point; however, rioting against repression and rioting because of a stupid muslim cartoon are VERY different.  People actually died because of the Middle-East reaction to that cartoon of the prophet mohamad.  That is absolutely rediculous!  They are like a bunch of rabid-stupid monkeys, we should put them in a cage and test shampoos on them.  Or we could lock them in the Middle-East and let them kill eachother...  I saw a table setup at my college the other day with a post that said, "Islam is a very open religion and accepting of other religions."  And then it gave examples, but they failed to metion that all muslims believe that everyone else is going to hell...  My girlfriend is an English student at my University and people from Saudia Arabia said that to her.  Open minded, yeah right.  And all the good muslims won't even come out and say that the radical musliims are bad people.  They are allowing all of the terrorists to high-jack their religion.  I try to have an open mind, but its a bunch of crap.  I saw this video of some terrorist bastards exploding an IED and then scream the jibberish that they scream after they just killed a person.  They scream something like, "Alah alechalem" or some crap that means "praise alah"...  I'm sure Alah wanted them to murder other people in his name...  If a muslim ever tries to get me I am going to start screaming "praise Alah" in arabic.  Take that Osama!  Okay, now I'm crazy...

B.Schuss wrote:

Renegade2k9 wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

Ok, let's get to it. You call criticizing US foreign policy "stabbing in the back" ? So, mainland Europe ( with the exception of PM Blair ) didn't approve of the war in Iraq and all of a sudden, we are the bad guys ?
Who is the ignorant one now ?
Our constitution forbids our armed forces to conduct military operations outside of germany, with the sole exception of NATO or UN mandates ( and even those were difficult to push through in parliament ). There was no UN mandate for a military operation in Iraq at the time, so why would you have expected us to go in there ? just because you said so ? Other nations may have chosen differently, but then again, those did not start 2 world wars in the 20th century...

Last time I checked, the US wasn't in the middle east either. So why would you care what's going on there ?
The US helped put Saddam in Power, when it seemed to fit their foreign policy at the time. So you had the responsibility to deal with him when he turned into a brutal dictator. You did that. Kudos to you. At least you clean up after yourselves.
I have never burned an american flag. And until you prove to me that anything my country has done was done out of "anger, jealously, bitterness, spite, or cruelty" towards the US, I shall take your comments as a manifestation of your own ignorance. Your ability to copy and paste from Wikipedia doesn't impress me one bit.
My country is doing what it can in the War on Terror, including supporting the US forces in Afghanistan. It may come as a surprise to you, but german soldiers have died on these missions.
I certainly will not allow you to diminish their efforts just because it fits your political agenda.

Whatever I can give a flying f**k what you think about me or my country. If your country or Europe didn't want to be involved just say no. Instead your country and the rest of Europe went on a non stoping campaign of bitching for the past three years. So please STFU no one here is impressed with your cry baby tactics.

Please tell me what we are getting out of being in Iraq? Nothing as far as I can see, the little oil (the only possible thing they have that we want) that is being tapped from that country isn't comming here. So what else is there? All we did was remove a dictator, I think it was at the wrong time though. Should of been done during the first gulf war.

Anyway about the comment I copied and pasted was based on a critism of Anti-Americanism, just to show why Anti-Americanism is so widespread. I said this more than a few times what we do is in our best interest not Europe or even the rest of the world. In the past I am sure Europe has done similar things in its interest and only its interest.  Finally analyzing a person in a negative way especially one you never met in person is a fairly ignorant trait, so please don't go and label people you know nothing about.

wow..

1. calling me names and generally being hostile instead of trying to argue on a serious level with the points I made doesn't help validate your arguments at all. Is "whatever..." really your only response to the points I made ?

2. You put forward that "your country and the rest of Europe went on a non stoping campaign of bitching for the past three years. So please STFU no one here is impressed with your cry baby tactics."
Apart from the insult, is this just your general impression or do you have any proof for that ?

Finally, I analyze you on the basis of what you say/post here. I have no other basis to judge on. So if you start insulting me instead of trying to argue with me, what impression you think I get from you ?

And as far as your last comment is concerned, you seem pretty ready to label a whole continent on the basis of what you have heard or believe.

Still, you blame me for labelling people I know nothing about. See the flaw in that argument ?

Renegade2k9 wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Renegade2k9 wrote:

And what's that crap about Europe stabbing the US in the back ? When and how exactly did we do that?


Where have you been in a cave with your eyes closed and fingers in your ears for the past three or so years? Europe has been bitching nonstop about our actions in the world, personally I don't understand why you even care? Last time I checked Europe wasn't even in the same region as the Middle East. Some believe that Germany and France had secret deals with Iraq and I am thinking this is why Europe is so angry with our actions because when we invaded Iraq we killed any deals that those countries had with Iraq. I was looking through wikipedia and found this attached to a article called "Anti-Americanism" and it states:

"Overall, the most common theme of many critics is that anti-Americanism is usually irrational in tone, and they thus distinguish it from simple criticism over policy. They argue that many manfestations of anti-American protest are thus based on sheer anger, jealously, bitterness, spite, or cruelty. Gestures such as flag burning, for example, might be disregarded as hysterical or "crazed". "

Seems ignorance is universal no matter where you go including Europe.

Europe borders the Middle East, Turkey is connected to Iran, Iraq and Syria.  So, care to explain how you would consider this 'not in the same region'?

http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/tra … rkey_m.gif

You also seem to have misinterpreted what you found on Wikipedia, what the section marked "Criticisms of anti-Americanism" is saying is that some people don't believe such an ideology exists, and when people are shouting and burning American flags they are not doing so because America has fucked them up the arse repeatedly, they are just doing it because they aren't very nice people.  The critics are quite naive in this case , here is an analogy which might help you understand what the critics are saying:

A gang of 10 people jump a lone female and rob, rape and stab her before leaving her for dead.  She goes on TV saying she hates them for what they've done to her, but then during the trial (these aren't the smartest thugs, she even knew where some of them lived) one of the gang members turns around and says that she hates them because she is a crazy bitch and she hates all men, we couldn't possibly have done anything to make her hate us.  That's what the critics of anti-Americanism are saying.  Clearer?

whittsend wrote:

the_heart_attack wrote:

well most people in iraq dont seem to like america but you guys are hell bent on helping them....

As I said, there are a few exceptions.  This is mostly to do with the fact that since we went in and fucked it up, we can't leave until it is fixed; I'd happily support leaving if it didn't mean screwing up the entire middle east for the forseeable future.  In any case, it is about responsibility for one's actions now, and not helping because 'we can afford to'.  If we embraced a policiy that ridiculous, it would soon be self-invalidating.

Australia has one or two troops there as well, if I'm not mistaken.


Don't be obtuse...or if you want to insist on it (as you seem to), please back it up with a fact or two.

"What this report most shockingly reveals, however, is that the billions of dollars of oil
money that has already been transferred to the US-controlled Coalition Provisional
Authority (CPA) has effectively disappeared into a financial black hole. For all the talk of
freedom and democracy for the Iraqi people – before, during and after the war which
toppled Saddam Hussein – there is no way of knowing how the vast majority of this
money has been spent."
http://www.christianaid.org.uk/indepth/ … raqoil.pdf

Yea it borders Turkey, but I mean it doesn't border the more volatile countries of the Middle East. I don't even think Turkey is considered part of the Middle East. I heard another name for the region but for the moment it escapes my mind.

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

I found it rather ironic that someone from the US would look at people protesting against perceived repression like that. After all, the USA were conceived after the british colonists had rioted against repression through the british empire...

I can see your point; however, rioting against repression and rioting because of a stupid muslim cartoon are VERY different.  People actually died because of the Middle-East reaction to that cartoon of the prophet mohamad.  That is absolutely rediculous!  They are like a bunch of rabid-stupid monkeys, we should put them in a cage and test shampoos on them.  Or we could lock them in the Middle-East and let them kill eachother...  I saw a table setup at my college the other day with a post that said, "Islam is a very open religion and accepting of other religions."  And then it gave examples, but they failed to metion that all muslims believe that everyone else is going to hell...  My girlfriend is an English student at my University and people from Saudia Arabia said that to her.  Open minded, yeah right.  And all the good muslims won't even come out and say that the radical musliims are bad people.  They are allowing all of the terrorists to high-jack their religion.  I try to have an open mind, but its a bunch of crap.  I saw this video of some terrorist bastards exploding an IED and then scream the jibberish that they scream after they just killed a person.  They scream something like, "Alah alechalem" or some crap that means "praise alah"...  I'm sure Alah wanted them to murder other people in his name...  If a muslim ever tries to get me I am going to start screaming "praise Alah" in arabic.  Take that Osama!  Okay, now I'm crazy...

All Christians believe Non-Christians are going to hell.  The Bible has twice as many violent passages as the Qu'ran.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/c … quran.html

And before you say that all the encouragement and incitement to violence is in the Old Testament and the New Testament is nothing but peace and love, maybe you could explain this:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.html

So basically whatever racist, non-sensicial gibberish you are wishing on the Muslim population of the world you are also wishing on the Christian population, by definition.

Renegade2k9 wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

Renegade2k9 wrote:

Whatever I can give a flying f**k what you think about me or my country. If your country or Europe didn't want to be involved just say no. Instead your country and the rest of Europe went on a non stoping campaign of bitching for the past three years. So please STFU no one here is impressed with your cry baby tactics.

Please tell me what we are getting out of being in Iraq? Nothing as far as I can see, the little oil (the only possible thing they have that we want) that is being tapped from that country isn't comming here. So what else is there? All we did was remove a dictator, I think it was at the wrong time though. Should of been done during the first gulf war.

Anyway about the comment I copied and pasted was based on a critism of Anti-Americanism, just to show why Anti-Americanism is so widespread. I said this more than a few times what we do is in our best interest not Europe or even the rest of the world. In the past I am sure Europe has done similar things in its interest and only its interest.  Finally analyzing a person in a negative way especially one you never met in person is a fairly ignorant trait, so please don't go and label people you know nothing about.

wow..

1. calling me names and generally being hostile instead of trying to argue on a serious level with the points I made doesn't help validate your arguments at all. Is "whatever..." really your only response to the points I made ?

2. You put forward that "your country and the rest of Europe went on a non stoping campaign of bitching for the past three years. So please STFU no one here is impressed with your cry baby tactics."
Apart from the insult, is this just your general impression or do you have any proof for that ?

Finally, I analyze you on the basis of what you say/post here. I have no other basis to judge on. So if you start insulting me instead of trying to argue with me, what impression you think I get from you ?

And as far as your last comment is concerned, you seem pretty ready to label a whole continent on the basis of what you have heard or believe.

Still, you blame me for labelling people I know nothing about. See the flaw in that argument ?

Please tell me where in that writing I called you a name? When I said "So please STFU no one here is impressed with your cry baby tactics", I meant Europe as a whole not you as a individual or just your country. I don't know your position so I couldn't really say anything about you. My proof that European countries are constant complaining? The few rare times I watch the news I am always hearing how some country (Mainly European) is complaining about our actions. They even had specials about why you hate us. The reason I label a whole continent is because they do the same to this one. Finally I remember on more than one occasion that you called me "ignorant" so your still wrong. Just makes me wonder where were all these complainers in Europe were when Europe committed similar actions and worse?

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Renegade2k9 wrote:

headrippa wrote:

And as for you Americans that don't support the war, hey "Love it or leave it baby!"  No one is makng you stay here, if you don't like how we do things, then get the hell out and make room for someone else. 

Okay, I'm spent...

Yea, I totally agree. The complainers should go to Canada and Europe and join people with the same hobbies.

But remember, when the roundabout swings again and the Democrats get into power and you start whining about how much more liberal things are getting, remember what you said here and fuck off somewhere else as well.  But remember that immigration controls mean that you probably won't get in to Canada or Europe unless you have some serious education and skills to put on the table.  Just because you're American, doesn't mean you can live anywhere in the world you like without going through the same hell you put people who want a Green Card through.  Yes, they do let you visit on holiday anytime you want, they want your US$.

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

I can see your point; however, rioting against repression and rioting because of a stupid muslim cartoon are VERY different.  People actually died because of the Middle-East reaction to that cartoon of the prophet mohamad.  That is absolutely rediculous!  They are like a bunch of rabid-stupid monkeys, we should put them in a cage and test shampoos on them.  Or we could lock them in the Middle-East and let them kill eachother...  I saw a table setup at my college the other day with a post that said, "Islam is a very open religion and accepting of other religions."  And then it gave examples, but they failed to metion that all muslims believe that everyone else is going to hell...  My girlfriend is an English student at my University and people from Saudia Arabia said that to her.  Open minded, yeah right.  And all the good muslims won't even come out and say that the radical musliims are bad people.  They are allowing all of the terrorists to high-jack their religion.  I try to have an open mind, but its a bunch of crap.  I saw this video of some terrorist bastards exploding an IED and then scream the jibberish that they scream after they just killed a person.  They scream something like, "Alah alechalem" or some crap that means "praise alah"...  I'm sure Alah wanted them to murder other people in his name...  If a muslim ever tries to get me I am going to start screaming "praise Alah" in arabic.  Take that Osama!  Okay, now I'm crazy...

All Christians believe Non-Christians are going to hell.  The Bible has twice as many violent passages as the Qu'ran.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/c … quran.html

And before you say that all the encouragement and incitement to violence is in the Old Testament and the New Testament is nothing but peace and love, maybe you could explain this:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/nt.html

So basically whatever racist, non-sensicial gibberish you are wishing on the Muslim population of the world you are also wishing on the Christian population, by definition.

I never said that Christians weren't idiots too!  But you can't even compare the two!!!  In this MODERN world of today, do you see people blowing up cars and murdering innocent people in the name of Jesus?  Haha, I think not!  Maybe Christianity gives people the ability to think and Muslim does not...  Like I said, they are rabid-stupid monkeys...  Anyone that believes another person is going to hell because they aren't in your religion is a moron.

How about you not assume that I am a Christian or any other religion at that and find an actual attack that fits me.  Like saying that Muslim people invented pies or something, then that would affect me. 

What country are you from anyway?  You obviously think that killing people in the name of Alah is okay, because you are defending their religion.

Mr.Pieeater wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Renegade2k9 wrote:

Yea, I totally agree. The complainers should go to Canada and Europe and join people with the same hobbies.

But remember, when the roundabout swings again and the Democrats get into power and you start whining about how much more liberal things are getting, remember what you said here and fuck off somewhere else as well.  But remember that immigration controls mean that you probably won't get in to Canada or Europe unless you have some serious education and skills to put on the table.  Just because you're American, doesn't mean you can live anywhere in the world you like without going through the same hell you put people who want a Green Card through.  Yes, they do let you visit on holiday anytime you want, they want your US$.

Exactly, those European bastards want our money!  Oh well, I like going on Vacation anyway.  And you honestly think the democrats are going to win the next election?  They are a party with no freaking ideas!  They just go with what they think is popular and currently that is smearing Bush.  But smart Americans won't fall for that crap.  Any person knows its easy to sit back and wait for something to go wrong and then say, "Well I would have done it this way."  That is all the democrats are doing.  And you actually thinking that liberal democrats are going to run the country is purely rediculous. 

Most Americans don't want to live anywhere else anyway!  You know why?  I'll tell you why!  Because America is the best place to freaking live, thats why!!!  Anyone that defends Europe and says their social system is better, try to explain the Muslim riots in France a few months ago.  Do you see rioting like that in the US?  I think not!