BF2S Forums The J-10 is insane

the j-10 and eurofighter seem pretty prone to breaking missile locks. The missiles appear to go straight at them, but then dip 'under' them and fly away. Thats been my experience at least.

Torin I was about to post something similar myself.

There is a definate balance issue youve raised here.

Yeah, I've noticed that too. Whenever I fight a J-10, even if it's flying level, my missle will get close and then fly right under the plane. I like it better just to unload on it with my guns.

personaly i aint had any problems shooting down J -  10s and as for dogeing missiles can do it in any plane.....

Last edited by Ghosty (2006-03-20 13:35:24)

The J10 has a near-100% chance of dodging missles if you know how

Also, mr. "24 missles later", have you ever heard of guns? Heck, have you ever flown a jet pre-1.2? Try using them, they actually do work

The Su-34 also seems strangely resilient to missles if you use the same method of dodging as with the J-10.

Read this for further information regarding J-10 balance issues in 1.21 http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61220

SargeV1.4 wrote:

The J10 has a near-100% chance of dodging missles if you know how

Also, mr. "24 missles later", have you ever heard of guns? Heck, have you ever flown a jet pre-1.2? Try using them, they actually do work

The Su-34 also seems strangely resilient to missles if you use the same method of dodging as with the J-10.

Yeah, thanks for assuming I didn't. I was very successful pre 1.2 with the machine guns, and I still do use them, but if you flew pre 1.2, and knowing how quickly you CAN take down a jet in 1.21 (except the J-10), you tend to rely more on missiles. If I really wanted to chase another good pilot around for 20 minutes with the machine guns, I wouldn't really be on here bitching about the J-10s effectiveness against missiles, would I? The point is not that jets can or can't be killed by machine guns, it's that the J-10 is alone in it's effectiveness in dodging AA, unlike any other jet in the game.

And don't reply back with "well you don't know how to use the MGs if it takes you 20 minutes to kill someone", because not only was I exaggerating, and not only are they not very effective in fighter vs. fighter combat (which IS what I am discussing here), it just isn't the point of the thread. Yes, sure, I can MG down any plane in the game with any plane, given enough time, but that's not the point, obviously.

That was quite a nice link, plane***** did a good job describing the symptoms and treatment for J-10 imbalance.  An additional problem with the fighters is the size of the hit-boxes, the j-10 and eurofighter have very small profiles compared to the Mig-29 and bombers. 

But in terms of hitting J-10s much of it seems similar to hitting them in 1.12, it required a firm lock a bit of luck and a steady shot. 

If you want better results hitting the J-10s with missiles in this patch, I suggest waiting for them to be making some sort of incline oriented manuever.  Missile lock seems to improve dramatically when the speed of the jet decreases as well as at a distance.  Especially during loops, immermans, and split-S manuevers as per described by GotMex? in WIKI. 

Since the improvement of the 1.2 and 1.21 AA missiles, fewer pilots check their six, this means sneaking up on a J-10 is more likely, especially if done from above or below.  If you get in close go for a gun run, if the server latency and # of players is low lead only a little bit, if it is more populated or laggy you will probably have to lead significantly, of course this is all relative to a lower ping in relation to your opponent.  If your opponent has a low ping, do not expect much for results in fighter vs fighter gun battles. 

Additionally, the moment the J-10 starts turning off to evade, it is high time to attempt to missile-lock.  Decelerate your plane, while initiating your turn prior to his will allow for you to stay in visual range to finish lock and fire.  The moment that J-10 starts winning the turn war, pull off some sort of terrain oriented fast fast escape, immmerman, split-s combo to increase your chances of escaping prior to re-engagement. 

A skilled J-10/MiG pilot is especially detrimental to your team, but remember that on Dragon valley, Wake Island, Operation cleansweep, and Kubra Dam you have the option of taking over the enemy airfield thus mitigiating your woe. 

----Finally as a note regarding to the linked post, tank combat is not all equal as some may surmise, The M1A1 is not only larger vertically higher and horizontally longer, but has a significantly larger hit box in the rear which includes a larger hit box for treads, rear, and the back of the turrent.  This is somewhat offset by the M1A1s ability to aim equally low to the other thanks but significantly higher than the Type-98 PLA tank.  Additionally, the larger turrent on the M1A1 allows for effective ricochet hits. 

APCs also have this same discrepency, the LAV is significantly smaller than the MEC/PLA variants, it has a higher ROF than the PLA WZ-551, and slower but more powerful rounds than the MEC BDRM.  Additionally, the LAV can aim far lower than the PLA WZ-551 but not anywhere near as high, and can aim slightly higher than the MEC BDRM. 

What I'm trying to get at is that balance issues remain throughout the game, but the idea is to give each army an edge in certain aspects of combat.  The USMC has by far the most well rounded ground force, (aside from the .50 cal angle of moment on the buggy) the PLA the best jets/bombers and worst land vehicles (aside from the mobile AA), whereas the MEC is a middle man that wins out in basic infantry armanents, better attack helo rounds, etc, but is slightly weaker in ground vehicles.  So while it isn't fair that the PLA has by far the best airforce, the U.S. has slight advantages in helocopters, tanks, and infantry weapons that are designed for distance rather than close up encouters.  I agree the J-10 needs to be toned down, but in the meantime realize nothing is unbeatable and you do have advantages as the USMC even if they are harder to initially surmise.

I have no more trouble taking out J-10's than any other type of plane, though I do admit that it is more difficult to hit them with a missile than it previously. My solution: bombing mode + 1-second gun strafe.

The f-18 has a similar problem with hits.

DebonairXcel its true what you are saying, it IS possible to take down a J10.

See what you are saying is only relative to each pilots skill. High skilled pilots spend alot of time checking behind them etc.

Im not the best pilot by a long way, but I have just short of 120 hours in a jet, and a K of about 5.80.

But in a J10, using the pull up and barrel roll technique, some of you will know what I mean, I can dodge teh AA missiles 90% of the time. Even 8 from the Essex isnt too hard to dodge. Now when I am in an F35B, Im pulling out every manouver I know, and I usually get owned.

All Im trying to say is, and I dont think you can argue, that if both pilots (one J10, one F35) are equally high skilled, the J10 pilot has a massive advantage over teh F35B pilot every time.

And its also true what you say about other vehicles being slightly unbalanced. But its not like the american APC can dodge teh MEC one, 90% of the time if the player is skilled enough. There is no real comparison to how overpowered the J10 really is.

BUDFORCE wrote:

All Im trying to say is, and I dont think you can argue, that if both pilots (one J10, one F35) are equally high skilled, the J10 pilot has a massive advantage over teh F35B pilot every time.

Oh I totally agree Budforce, its a regular Gettsyburg with the F-35 being the Confederates.  By that I mean it requires pre-planning, rational thinking, and high risk to be able to win it.  Whether you go in balls first like the rebels or carefully like Lee usually ordered yous till get served from time to time. 

J-10 are a far cry from fair so long as they can dodge missiles during most sharp turns & corkscrew manuevers.    Even so, I'm an optimist, and I generally prefer to be USMC against J-10s, not because I have something to prove.  But because it forces me to think on my feet and plan while I play.  Rather than simply following the patterns that I've used successfully in the past.  I dislike video games being like zombie TV, minimal thinking and following patterns, we all do it, probably more than we should, but we actively think about what we are doing before we do it, it takes this game out of the genre as a waste of time but aids us in our strategic-active thinking. 

But yeah, AA stills needs some tweaks as 6'oclock missile need the capacity to a moving target which is usually the case when it is essex versus J-10.