Do you gamble?

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Do you gamble?

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Do you gamble?

Yes	50%	50% - 29
No	49%	49% - 28
Total: 57

2009-02-17 11:33:43

Roc18: `; +655|6020|PROLLLY PROLLLY PROLLLY

phishman420 wrote:
Roc18 wrote:
phishman420 wrote:

so tell me why i've won > $3000 playing low stakes and my friend who sucks has probably lost close to $3000 playing the same tournaments
Cause he's stupid I guess, when I played poker no matter how good some of my hands were I would get some really bad beats at the worst times and I ended up losing money.
he's stupid, but since poker is all luck, then it wouldnt matter whether or not he was amazing or horrible--according to your logic...

He's stupid because he didnt know when to stop and ended up losing close to $3000 I knew to stop once I was down a hundred or so.

I think sportsbetting is more secure and will gain you a profit in the long run, cause it has me so far. Especially if you follow someone who developed a good system.

https://g.bf3stats.com/pc/gcv8Vckg/roc18.png

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2009-02-17 11:34:58

phishman420: Banned; +821|5910

why dont you tell my friend who has won almost $2milli that poker isnt skill

http://www.bluffmagazine.com/thepokerdb … rofile.asp

2009-02-17 11:36:25

NeXuS: Shock it till ya know it; +375|6570|Atlanta, Georgia

phishman420 wrote:
Roc18 wrote:
phishman420 wrote:

so tell me why i've won > $3000 playing low stakes and my friend who sucks has probably lost close to $3000 playing the same tournaments
Cause he's stupid I guess, when I played poker no matter how good some of my hands were I would get some really bad beats at the worst times and I ended up losing money.
he's stupid, but since poker is all luck, then it wouldnt matter whether or not he was amazing or horrible--according to your logic...

You gotta know when to fold/bet/stay such and such. Really you have to plan out your moves carefully. Cause if you "THINK" you have hand with 3 kings, and they're 4 hearts on the table, then i'd suggest you better rethink your plans. It is 90% skill and 10% luck TO ME atleast. Luck is what cards are handed to you, unless you know how to count cards of course, and the rest is just straight up skillzzzzz.

2009-02-17 11:36:39

Roc18: `; +655|6020|PROLLLY PROLLLY PROLLLY

phishman420 wrote:
why dont you tell my friend who has won almost $2milli that poker isnt skill

http://www.bluffmagazine.com/thepokerdb … rofile.asp

Hey if you want to go up 2 mil thats great but You have to get lucky on those giant bets that get you to that point, I doubt if the pot gets that big that people will fold out of it and let you have that much money.

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2009-02-17 11:37:43

Metal-Eater-GR: I can haz titanium paancakez?; +490|6501

Only in pool with my friends. And thats around two to five euros.

2009-02-17 11:39:31

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6861|949

I gamble whenever I go to Vegas. Craps and poker, mostly. I used to gamble a little on sports but I've seen my friends lose literally tens of thousands of dollars within days on sports betting so I don't do it at all anymore.

I still visit card clubs from time to time around here and don't gamble online for money anymore. I used to be pretty active on FullTilt and PokerStars and I ended up cashing out about +$3000 when all was said and done. I'd rather go to a brick-and-mortar casino now.

I'll be in Vegas from 4/9 to 4/12 if anyone else is there...

2009-02-17 11:41:20

phishman420: Banned; +821|5910

Roc18 wrote:
phishman420 wrote:
why dont you tell my friend who has won almost $2milli that poker isnt skill

http://www.bluffmagazine.com/thepokerdb … rofile.asp
Hey if you want to go up 2 mil thats great but You have to get lucky on those giant bets that get you to that point, I doubt if the pot gets that big that people will fold out of it and let you have that much money.

no because hes not playing ring games. those are all from tourney/sng wins

2009-02-17 11:42:14

max: Vela Incident; +1,652|6796|NYC / Hamburg

I own stocks

_{once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.}

2009-02-17 11:47:50

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6961|St. Andrews / Oslo

I used to go bet on Horses with my father when I was younger. Got into the VIP lounge and got protips from skilled gamblers...

I won £200 in one day, which is a lot at age 12

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Dad sponsored the betting, but still. awsm

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png

2009-02-17 11:54:19

[-DER-]Omega: membeR; +188|7056|Lithuania

Any game that involves skill, logic, and thinking cannot be 100% luck. Anything else is just a game of coin-toss.

https://bf3s.com/sigs/fe717ed1eb823c939460a42f15bced7dd0057c51.png

2009-02-17 12:21:21

Roc18: `; +655|6020|PROLLLY PROLLLY PROLLLY

Fuck im about to play poker again because of you guys lol

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2009-02-17 14:46:04

War Man: Australians are hermaphrodites.; +563|6943|Purplicious Wisconsin

I gamble on my luck, that count?

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.

2009-02-17 14:49:58

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6861|949

Yes it does War Man. You may vote "yes" in the poll.

2009-02-17 15:02:26

Roc18: `; +655|6020|PROLLLY PROLLLY PROLLLY

War Man wrote:
I gamble on my luck, that count?

How the hell do you gamble on your luck?

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2009-02-17 15:27:24

Hakei: Banned; +295|6224

phishman420 wrote:
If you've ever sat at a poker table, you've invariably heard the questions asked in the title of this article. While all serious players believe poker is a game of skill, they don't always agree on how skilful a game it really is. Some people believe the skill to luck ratio falls at somewhere around 70% - 30%, while others argue that the ratio is closer to 90% - 10%. If you ask me, however, I'll tell you something you won't hear from almost anybody else. Poker is 100% skilful.

Now, I know many of you are already skeptical about how I can make this kind of claim. What about bad beats? Or the times you're out-drawn on the river? How can I not figure these kinds of situations into my thinking? The fact is, I already have. Variance is part of poker and it would be highly unusual if bad beats didn't occasionally happen or if two-outers didn't sometimes hit on the river, as this would defy the laws of probability. The fact is, these kinds of events should have less of an impact on your overall results the more you play.

If you only play a few hands or a few hours of poker at a time, luck will undoubtedly play a bigger factor in your results than if you play regularly. For example, let's look at a player who puts in eight hours a day, five days a week, for 50 weeks per year, which is equivalent to 2,000 hours at the table. Assuming this is a solid, smart player who doesn't vary his or her stakes throughout the course of the year, I believe their talent will outweigh the effect of luck to ensure that they produce positive results year after year. That's not to say this player won't run into the occasional rough patch or have losing sessions, but by sticking to their game plan, these occasional down-turns shouldn't adversely affect their bottom line.

In effect, all players get paid for every good decision that they make and penalized for their bad ones. By continuously making high-quality decisions over the course of so many hours, skilful players should make more good decisions than bad, and see their bankrolls grow as a result. I have done this for more than 33 years, and know many other professional players who have produced similar results for many years. What this shows me is that, over the long haul, luck is not only insignificant when it comes to your results - it's non-existent.

It takes a true professional to look at poker in this way, and I fully expect that many people will disagree with my conclusions. That's why I'm holding a scheduled chat session entitled "Poker - Luck or Skill" on Full Tilt Poker at 15:00 ET (3PM ET) on Saturday, April 7th. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about my position and further explain why I believe that, over the long term, luck has nothing to do with being a winning poker player.
from one of the best poker players ever

http://www.chrisferguson.com/tip/98/How … h+Skill%3F

100% Skill?

Okay, so sit the best poker player in the world down on a table, and bring in someone who's played a few Saturday night games over a few cans. The pro guy gets a two pair, and the other gets a flush. No matter how much skill the pro player has, if it gets to the final stage and they're both still in, he's not going to win - regardless of how many games he's played before and regardless of how skillful he is, there is always the element of luck, always.

I think you can say that Chess is a game of 100% skill, but poker? Meh maybe 30% give or take 10 and even then you're possibly flogging it a bit.

Same goes as counting cards, people make out that it's a 100% fool proof method of making easy money, yet lots of people try to, and simply fail, losing quite a bit of money in the process.

2009-02-17 15:49:08

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6861|949

Hakei wrote:
100% Skill?

Okay, so sit the best poker player in the world down on a table, and bring in someone who's played a few Saturday night games over a few cans. The pro guy gets a two pair, and the other gets a flush. No matter how much skill the pro player has, if it gets to the final stage and they're both still in, he's not going to win - regardless of how many games he's played before and regardless of how skillful he is, there is always the element of luck, always.

I think you can say that Chess is a game of 100% skill, but poker? Meh maybe 30% give or take 10 and even then you're possibly flogging it a bit.

Same goes as counting cards, people make out that it's a 100% fool proof method of making easy money, yet lots of people try to, and simply fail, losing quite a bit of money in the process.

Poker isn't about winning every single hand. Any poker player will agree that is impossible. It's about knowing when you can strike and when you can sit back. Using your example, a skillful player will 'know' that he is beat- and maybe even still willfully call a bet to gain information to use later.

The cards count for only so much. A lot of "playing" poker revolves around reading your opponent. Your hypothetical example removes all areas where skill would come into play. That's why it doesn't work. Let's assume I get a royal flush and everyone loses. Where's the skill in that, dur dur durrr...

2009-02-17 15:54:59

Roc18: `; +655|6020|PROLLLY PROLLLY PROLLLY

>>KJ
It's impossible to know when you are beat, you cant see the other players cards. Thats why poker is gambling because you are never sure about what other people have in thier hands. Thats also why I think its more luck than skill, im also not saying that there is no skill involved im jsut saying that if you are lucky and hit good hands all the time skill wont matter that much.

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2009-02-17 15:56:02

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6961|St. Andrews / Oslo

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Hakei wrote:
100% Skill?

Okay, so sit the best poker player in the world down on a table, and bring in someone who's played a few Saturday night games over a few cans. The pro guy gets a two pair, and the other gets a flush. No matter how much skill the pro player has, if it gets to the final stage and they're both still in, he's not going to win - regardless of how many games he's played before and regardless of how skillful he is, there is always the element of luck, always.

I think you can say that Chess is a game of 100% skill, but poker? Meh maybe 30% give or take 10 and even then you're possibly flogging it a bit.

Same goes as counting cards, people make out that it's a 100% fool proof method of making easy money, yet lots of people try to, and simply fail, losing quite a bit of money in the process.
Poker isn't about winning every single hand. Any poker player will agree that is impossible. It's about knowing when you can strike and when you can sit back. Using your example, a skillful player will 'know' that he is beat- and maybe even still willfully call a bet to gain information to use later.

The cards count for only so much. A lot of "playing" poker revolves around reading your opponent. Your hypothetical example removes all areas where skill would come into play. That's why it doesn't work. Let's assume I get a royal flush and everyone loses. Where's the skill in that, dur dur durrr...

indeed, poker i all about knowing when to call, when to raise, when to fold, when to bluff, gathering info about your opponent.

A pro poker player can easily beat a so-called "Saturday Night" player even if he has shit cards 80% of the time.

2009-02-17 15:58:13

Jenspm: penis; +1,716|6961|St. Andrews / Oslo

Roc18 wrote:
>>KJ
It's impossible to know when you are beat, you cant see the other players cards. Thats why poker is gambling because you are never sure about what other people have in thier hands. Thats also why I think its more luck than skill, im also not saying that there is no skill involved im jsut saying that if you are lucky and hit good hands all the time skill wont matter that much.

dude, that is exactly the essence of the game of poker - predicting what the other guy has. Eyeing the possibilities on the table, studying his betting pattern, etc.

2009-02-17 16:01:18

War Man: Australians are hermaphrodites.; +563|6943|Purplicious Wisconsin

Roc18 wrote:
War Man wrote:
I gamble on my luck, that count?
How the hell do you gamble on your luck?

Not that kind of gambling. Some other type of gambling

The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.

2009-02-17 16:02:54

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6861|949

Roc18 wrote:
>>KJ
It's impossible to know when you are beat, you cant see the other players cards. Thats why poker is gambling because you are never sure about what other people have in thier hands. Thats also why I think its more luck than skill, im also not saying that there is no skill involved im jsut saying that if you are lucky and hit good hands all the time skill wont matter that much.

A good player can usually tell when he is beat (usually, not all the time).
What happens when you don't hit good hands in between the ones you hit? What happens when you let the other players at your table know you have good hands (whether it is the pattern in which you bet or its your reaction or physical tendencies) and everyone folds - you don't win anything. The idea is not to show you have a good hand or a bad hand ever, or even maybe try to get people to think you have a bad hand when you have a good hand and vice-versa.

There are so many variables that poker is not just a game of "who has a better hand at the end".

2009-02-17 16:04:58

Hakei: Banned; +295|6224

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Hakei wrote:
100% Skill?

Okay, so sit the best poker player in the world down on a table, and bring in someone who's played a few Saturday night games over a few cans. The pro guy gets a two pair, and the other gets a flush. No matter how much skill the pro player has, if it gets to the final stage and they're both still in, he's not going to win - regardless of how many games he's played before and regardless of how skillful he is, there is always the element of luck, always.

I think you can say that Chess is a game of 100% skill, but poker? Meh maybe 30% give or take 10 and even then you're possibly flogging it a bit.

Same goes as counting cards, people make out that it's a 100% fool proof method of making easy money, yet lots of people try to, and simply fail, losing quite a bit of money in the process.
Poker isn't about winning every single hand. Any poker player will agree that is impossible. It's about knowing when you can strike and when you can sit back. Using your example, a skillful player will 'know' that he is beat- and maybe even still willfully call a bet to gain information to use later.

The cards count for only so much. A lot of "playing" poker revolves around reading your opponent. Your hypothetical example removes all areas where skill would come into play. That's why it doesn't work. Let's assume I get a royal flush and everyone loses. Where's the skill in that, dur dur durrr...

so tell me why i've won > $3000 playing low stakes and my friend who sucks has probably lost close to $3000 playing the same tournaments

This makes it sound like he's studying the game intensely and suggests that he uses 100% skill and doesn't have any luck.

Sure okay - someone playing the game for 5 days a week, 8 hours a day might realise that there is the element of skill - how many people actually do this as apposed to someone who just plays a couple of times a month and hopes for a lucky hand? 1%? I don't think you can call something as big as 'it's all about skill' with only a handful of players actually resorting to poker as a form of income.

Hence my reason for saying that you can't call the game 100% skill, because I bet he doesn't sit there, calling bets with nothing in his hand just to simply gain knowledge, nor would you try and see if someone is bluffing based on facial movement because you think watching a youtube video saying that people look to the right when they're lying is equatable to a psychology degree. People lose and people win, but you shouldn't claim that your win was based purely on skill because you thought you made a few good moves.

2009-02-17 16:09:46

andy12: Banned; +52|6886

If he put 8 people together of exact equal skill what other than luck determines who walks away with the cash?

2009-02-17 16:14:22

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,978|6861|949

Hakei wrote:
This makes it sound like he's studying the game intensely and suggests that he uses 100% skill and doesn't have any luck.

Sure okay - someone playing the game for 5 days a week, 8 hours a day might realise that there is the element of skill - how many people actually do this as apposed to someone who just plays a couple of times a month and hopes for a lucky hand? 1%? I don't think you can call something as big as 'it's all about skill' with only a handful of players actually resorting to poker as a form of income.

Hence my reason for saying that you can't call the game 100% skill, because I bet he doesn't sit there, calling bets with nothing in his hand just to simply gain knowledge, nor would you try and see if someone is bluffing based on facial movement because you think watching a youtube video saying that people look to the right when they're lying is equatable to a psychology degree. People lose and people win, but you shouldn't claim that your win was based purely on skill because you thought you made a few good moves.

He is studying the game intensely - he is a pro poker player. I'm sure he'll admit there are times of luck - that doesn't mean that to be a good poker player takes 100% skill. Look at the man who wrote the article - he is a pro who has made millions of dollars playing poker - and devoting a lot of time to the theory of the game. He obviously already knows odds and the math behind the game - as can virtually anyone. The intangible comes in the game theory implemented in playing his opponent - and that's what he attributes to skill.

It's not about a universal tell where people look left when they bluff - it's about reading each individual and establishing a pattern. The best poker players are really good at it; most aren't.

Obviously you either have never played poker or haven't played live that much at all, which makes me wonder how/why you are even carrying on this argument.

andy12 wrote:
If he put 8 people together of exact equal skill what other than luck determines who walks away with the cash?

Don't be an idiot. You are recognizing that it takes skill in your question, which would make his argument correct. Dumb hypothetical question fail.

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2009-02-17 16:22:46)

2009-02-17 16:43:37

Hakei: Banned; +295|6224

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
andy12 wrote:
If he put 8 people together of exact equal skill what other than luck determines who walks away with the cash?
Don't be an idiot. You are recognizing that it takes skill in your question, which would make his argument correct. Dumb hypothetical question fail.

No, what he's doing is taking your hypothesis and turning it into a question in order to prove your argument wrong - which is the logical step towards refuting a suggested theory.

You're simply avoiding the question and claiming it's a dumb and fail. And your sentence before that can be related to "Okay, so if there is a God, why do some good people die?" And the church turning around and saying "You assumed God is real whilst trying to prove he wasn't, therefore your question is invalid and God exists."

Perfectly simple, sound question that you refuse to answer.

Last edited by Hakei (2009-02-17 16:44:10)

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phishman420 wrote:

Roc18 wrote:

phishman420 wrote:

phishman420 wrote:

Roc18 wrote:

phishman420 wrote:

phishman420 wrote:

Roc18 wrote:

phishman420 wrote:

War Man wrote:

phishman420 wrote:

Hakei wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Hakei wrote:

Roc18 wrote:

Roc18 wrote:

War Man wrote:

Roc18 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Hakei wrote:

Hakei wrote:

andy12 wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

andy12 wrote:

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