True. But scholarships are pretty rare. Not a solution for the vast majority of people - in the example given, his dad certainly wouldn't have qualified.Kmarion wrote:
Yes. My ex got a full scholastic ride to USF. She had no money.Bertster7 wrote:
Can someone with no money afford to go to a good college in the US?
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-02-02 11:41:30)
Yes our cost are out of control. Most students need to get loans that burden them for the whole of their young adult life.Bertster7 wrote:
True. But scholarships are pretty rare. Not a solution for the vast majority of people - in the example given, his dad certainly wouldn't have qualified.Kmarion wrote:
Yes. My ex got a full scholastic ride to USF. She had no money.Bertster7 wrote:
Can someone with no money afford to go to a good college in the US?
Same hereKmarion wrote:
Yes our cost are out of control. Most students need to get loans that burden them for the whole of their young adult life.Bertster7 wrote:
True. But scholarships are pretty rare. Not a solution for the vast majority of people - in the example given, his dad certainly wouldn't have qualified.Kmarion wrote:
Yes. My ex got a full scholastic ride to USF. She had no money.
That's the whole point of his constant nagging isn't it ... but how many people do not want to get help if they can?[TUF]Catbox wrote:
You guys are all proving lowings point... you are all people that wan't to better your lives... FTeds parents being a great example of overcoming their situation through working long hours and taking advantage of programs to better themselves...
It's the people that have opportunities and don't do anything about it... If you are a minority in the US... You can go to school(we have plenty of programs for people that wan't to better themselves)...
Why do some Asian kids that come to the US and can't speak English... graduate 4 years later from highschool in the US as Valedictorians? Because they wanted it.
You can't help people that don't wan't to be helped.... You give a guy 20 bucks on the street and he says... thanks and makes a beeline for a liquor store... same thing with lending someone money to buy a house who can't afford it... We are enjoying the results of the latter right now...
Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-02-02 13:45:14)
The Mall yesterday morning was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in my life.
The Mall yesterday afternoon was perhaps the ugliest.
What the hell is wrong with us, America? Barack Obama just told us to pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off. What about that speech made you think it was ok to leave massive, massive amounts of newspaper, food, blankets, bottles and flags on the Mall?
There were a handful of people stopping to collect some of the newspapers that blanketed the ground, but the wind picked up for a while and it just seemed so hopeless. I want to walk down and see what it looks like this morning, but I don't think I'm ready to have my heart broken yet today.
There's no shortage of these people, not sure what the solution is.Catbox wrote:
if you told them that they could get out of the shitty situation they are in right now...by offering them a job or schooling, they wouldn't show up...
Are you totally oblivious to the fact that regardless if they was lucky to find the loans does not matter? They went to school they applied themselves, they had ambition to succeed, they were motivated. They could have easily just said fuck it, and not gone back to school at all and spent their lives bitching about how unlucky they were and how the rest of us owe them something..Like it or not, all you did with your story was re-enforce my entire argument.FatherTed wrote:
Actually it was luck on both counts - these loans were not exactly widely available to either of the areas they lived, especially in the case of my dad. Without them, they would still be in the hole. This was not a case of seeking, rather receptionlowing wrote:
Socialism is flawed and wrongFatherTed wrote:
Back.
Right, why socialism is lovely.
When my mum was little, she lived on a council estate in inner manchester. Her dad had died in a refinery accident when she was little, and her mum was practically unqualified - she came from a time when it was difficult for women to get any sort of decent job. As a result, they lived in what would be defined as poverty, And as such without outside help from the Government, there was no way in hell she would be able to afford University. As it was our communist government loaned my mum all the money she needed to attend a decent university, and get a 1st in Business. As a result she now turns out about £90k p/a in a very well placed (irony inbound) Government position. NONE of this would have been doable without Government support, and as such the tax payers support.
---
Now for my fathers side. He was born and grew up in Northern Ireland. As you may have heard, NI was not a nice place to grow up back then. He came from a family of 7, and they all lived in a farmhouse with 3 rooms. His dad died when my dad was about 16, leaving him, his 5 brothers and their sister to attend the farm. This left little time for study, and as a result my dad failed every compulsory qualification. Now you could argue 'Well he should have tried harder'. HOW THE FUCK could he, when he was putting in 16-18hr shifts on the farm, to help bring in food for the family. Thankfully, the government payed him for reeducation courses, and eventually he went on to get a 2.1 in Business at a university in England. As a result, he now brings in 60k p/a in a high role in a well known British food group in a area managing position.
Now, my parents tried their utmost to bring themselves up from poverty, but WITHOUT GOVERNMENT assistance, paid for by those well off, IT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE.
So you dare and try and tell me socialism is flawed and wrong, and giving to the poor is unworthy.
I dare you.
your mother. The govt. gave her a LOAN. not a hand out, we also have govt. loans. It is not the loan that pulled your mother out of poverty. It was your mothers desire t oget educated and pull HER SELF out of poverty. Your mother CHOSE to go to school and not live a life of poverty. This story alone proves people live by their choices and not by their bad "luck".
your father. He worked to put food on a table, hardly a hand out, he helped himself first. He also, like your mother, chose to further his education. It was not the govt. that bailed him out. He bailed himself out by taking advantage of current programs that offer assistence for those seeking it.
My whole premise is, we have these same programs available, there is a significant number of people that choose NOT to help themselves and take advantage of them. THey would rather vote for Obama who, in their eyes will take more from the earners and give it to them. They would rather live off of govt. than their own hard work.
Socialism is flawed and wrong
I do object GIVING to the poor who choose to stay poor over working their way out of it. I do not object helping those that are helping themselves
You do realize your parents had ambition, work ethic and desire, don't you? THey chose NOT to stay poor. Sounds like it wasn't "luck" rather ambition, desire, and work ethic that dug your parents out of the hole. Thanks for proving my point.
Where in the past 2 years on this forum have I ever stated I did not want to help people that help themselves. My problem are those that have opprotunity and do not take it, they would rather just be entitled.Bertster7 wrote:
And socialism gave them greater opportunity to get out of that hole.lowing wrote:
You do realize your parents had ambition, work ethic and desire, don't you? THey chose NOT to stay poor. Sounds like it wasn't "luck" rather ambition, desire, and work ethic that dug your parents out of the hole. Thanks for proving my point.
Can someone with no money afford to go to a good college in the US?
How much does college cost each year in the US? Over here tuition is around £1000/year. That's it. Total cost. Obviously you also need to support yourself whilst studying too.
No need for a college fund over here. Top quality education is available to anyone bright who wants it and applies themselves.
Sorry, I live in the USA, the land of opportunity, if people CHOOSE not to take advantage of existing opportunity in the form of grants and loans, then who are you really wanting to blame?FatherTed wrote:
lol quite.TheAussieReaper wrote:
It's all about choice! You simply have to choose, not to be poor. lolBertster7 wrote:
And socialism gave them greater opportunity to get out of that hole.
Can someone with no money afford to go to a good college in the US?
Lowing, go preach that in the favelas.
You mean the Western country with the highest proportion of people in poverty?Lowing wrote:
Sorry, I live in the USA, the land of opportunity
You really really think that there are only "a few" people who would rather be entitled than work for their livelihoods? Wow, and you say I do not live in reality?Varegg wrote:
That's the whole point of his constant nagging isn't it ... but how many people do not want to get help if they can?[TUF]Catbox wrote:
You guys are all proving lowings point... you are all people that wan't to better your lives... FTeds parents being a great example of overcoming their situation through working long hours and taking advantage of programs to better themselves...
It's the people that have opportunities and don't do anything about it... If you are a minority in the US... You can go to school(we have plenty of programs for people that wan't to better themselves)...
Why do some Asian kids that come to the US and can't speak English... graduate 4 years later from highschool in the US as Valedictorians? Because they wanted it.
You can't help people that don't wan't to be helped.... You give a guy 20 bucks on the street and he says... thanks and makes a beeline for a liquor store... same thing with lending someone money to buy a house who can't afford it... We are enjoying the results of the latter right now...
And for arguments sake lets say there are a few that refuse to get help, does it then matter if the government is socialised or a capitalistic one?
The phrase is wearing thin, "you can't help people that don't want to be helped" is such a BS phrase tbh, it's a close to non existent category if it contains any members of society at all and that is the basis for all your arguments ...
Ypu that one, however, I live in a country that, with all of its opportunities, has a very high concentration of people that are spoiled, lazy and "entitled" now more than ever.Dilbert_X wrote:
You mean the Western country with the highest proportion of people in poverty?Lowing wrote:
Sorry, I live in the USA, the land of opportunity
Doesn't seem like there's a lot of opportunity.
Can you be more specific about that demographic?lowing wrote:
Ypu that one, however, I live in a country that, with all of its opportunities, has a very high concentration of people that are spoiled, lazy and "entitled" now more than ever.
I am not speaking of demographics, I am speaking of general attitude amongst Americans. We are arrogant and expect life handed to us. Our daily complaints are relegated to who stole our parking spot, and the asshole that has 25 items in the 15 item or less checkout line.TheAussieReaper wrote:
Can you be more specific about that demographic?lowing wrote:
Ypu that one, however, I live in a country that, with all of its opportunities, has a very high concentration of people that are spoiled, lazy and "entitled" now more than ever.
It's a bit of a generalisation to just say lazy and spoiled.
How similar we are.Dilbert_X wrote:
You mean the Western country with the highest proportion of people in poverty?Lowing wrote:
Sorry, I live in the USA, the land of opportunity
Doesn't seem like there's a lot of opportunity.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ … 62,00.htmlWE'RE (Australians) more likely to be homeowners than those in most other nations, but more than two million Australians still live in poverty, according to a new report.
The Australian Council of Social Service report uses OECD figures to argue that one in 10 Australians is living below the poverty line.
This brings Australia in 14th, behind Britain, the US, Ireland and Italy, in a poverty league table of 18 developed countries.
But many Australians still find the money to get a mortgage, with the nation ranked sixth in the home ownership stakes, ahead of nations such as Britain, Canada, Sweden and Germany.
The report puts our economic growth at about the OECD average, while our life expectancy is ranked at a healthy sixth.
However, we are lower down the OECD scale on education spending (18th), welfare spending (23rd), and the proportion of our energy that comes from renewable sources (17th).
The OECD poverty line is defined as 50 per cent of median earnings.
ACOSS spokesman Andrew Johnson said Australia lagged behind many other countries in key areas.
"In the current good economic times, with a large Budget surplus, it's not fair that two million Australians are struggling to access necessities such as affordable housing and dental care," he said.
lololol when was that article written?Kmarion wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ … 62,00.html"In the current good economic times, with a large Budget surplus, it's not fair that two million Australians are struggling to access necessities such as affordable housing and dental care," he said.
It was the last report I could find. Do you have a counter besides lololol? If you looked at what I was quoting you would also see no specified time.TheAussieReaper wrote:
lololol when was that article written?Kmarion wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ … 62,00.html"In the current good economic times, with a large Budget surplus, it's not fair that two million Australians are struggling to access necessities such as affordable housing and dental care," he said.
Oh, August 07.
I ask because we are not in good economic times and have no budget surplus.
I was looking for something with a little more substance than a general attitude among Americans. When you said there's a high concentration that are spoiled lazy and entitled I thought you could narrow down who you were talking about.lowing wrote:
I am not speaking of demographics, I am speaking of general attitude amongst Americans. We are arrogant and expect life handed to us. Our daily complaints are relegated to who stole our parking spot, and the asshole that has 25 items in the 15 item or less checkout line.TheAussieReaper wrote:
Can you be more specific about that demographic?lowing wrote:
Ypu that one, however, I live in a country that, with all of its opportunities, has a very high concentration of people that are spoiled, lazy and "entitled" now more than ever.
It's a bit of a generalisation to just say lazy and spoiled.
Really? So you do not consider Americans over all, as arrogant spoiled and entitled for no other reason than because we are americans?TheAussieReaper wrote:
I was looking for something with a little more substance than a general attitude among Americans. When you said there's a high concentration that are spoiled lazy and entitled I thought you could narrow down who you were talking about.lowing wrote:
I am not speaking of demographics, I am speaking of general attitude amongst Americans. We are arrogant and expect life handed to us. Our daily complaints are relegated to who stole our parking spot, and the asshole that has 25 items in the 15 item or less checkout line.TheAussieReaper wrote:
Can you be more specific about that demographic?
It's a bit of a generalisation to just say lazy and spoiled.
I certainly wouldn't believe all Americans are lazy and spoiled, entitled maybe however.
Last edited by lowing (2009-02-03 04:58:29)
I wasn't having a go at you, I just found it so laughable that the article talks about great economic times when we are now in a recession and have just had the lowest interest rate applied to us in 45 years.Kmarion wrote:
It was the last report I could find. Do you have a counter besides lololol? If you looked at what I was quoting you would also see no specified time.TheAussieReaper wrote:
lololol when was that article written?Kmarion wrote:
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22330974-2862,00.html
Oh, August 07.
I ask because we are not in good economic times and have no budget surplus.
It's amazing that you are only critical of my reply and time period. Especially considering that I was the only one who actually took the time to cite what I was saying.
AUSTRALIA: Poverty on the Rise Down Under
But you and I both know that when relative incomes rise, so too does poverty rates. And that poverty is measured not by standards of living, but relative to the cost of living. At the moment that has fallen with interest rates, however we'll more than likely about to be hit with higher unemployment figures due to the recession. Whether or not that too impacts on the cost of living is yet to be seen.The report came as new figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics showed that costs for working families and pensioners were rising faster than inflation.
