SpiritofDeath
Member
+0|6743|Austria
I was shooting with the MG74 (improved version of the MG42) a couple of times.
The battle range is up to 600m. That's 2x more than the STG77 (Steyr AUG).It is hard to shoot with only the bipod on this range because of the recoil.With a lafette (?, dont know the english word for that) it's more accurate.
"Surpressing" fire ? Can't really find it on the bf in pre 1.2. Everybody was laughing at the mg-user and jumping around on a wide open area.Turn a around and BOOM HEADSHOT!
O Warlord in the palace you couldn't seal a gangway with an MG because of the GL-Lamers,now it's possible.
Ppl fear the MG now .They have to! But it's to accurate now.As seen on the vid that Planewhore/23mm/QQCumber/whatever made,he sniped with it easily.He is a skilled player,and the shots near the walls and on the place it self should be possible.But the last kill near the moschee is insane.
UBAR/Wiki says that the Deviation proned is 0,8.That's the same for all the Sniper Rifles! Maybe i missunderstand something,but for me it means that the PKM has the same accuracy than the Sniper Rifles.
Just need a good Scope.
But even now,there is no real surpressing fire (infantry combat) you shoot or get shot.
Who is hiding when he faces en enemy? No, you will engage him.
Bloody_Eye
Member
+0|6693
That's good, I'm glad there's a workaround for it, however...

The idea of suppressing fire is a spray of bullets (in a fairly wide arc) that force an enemy force to keep its head down. Now, if one of those bullets hit you OH BOY do they pack a punch.

You cannot in real life use a pkm to snipe someone in the head for a one shot kill.

So thank you for giving me hope, but don't focus on how long I've been playing, focus on the fact that pkm is a bullshit weapon and proning while firing is a bullshit option.

Does anyone else agree?
I am a very experienced player, I use the PKM a lot, and I agree completely. The gun is just too accurate right now; it outclasses the other MGs because it can double as a sniper rifle and the others can't really, and consequently, it's better than it's supposed to be.

Let me explain my whole position:
1.) Pre-1.2, the PKM and all MGs were very underpowered, although the PKM was still the best of the lot overall.
2.) Post-1.2, the MGs are balanced but the PKM is now just too accurate and too good.

Last edited by Bloody_Eye (2006-03-16 03:38:34)

Bloody_Eye
Member
+0|6693
No, for reasons stated:

    Harmony wrote:

    In real life you hide when a saw is firing in your direction.  You would never get up and run across an open area at a saw gunner.  At a few feet a saw gunner does not need to aim, merely depress the trigger and wave in your general direction.  You will be cut in half.

...

    MooseRyder wrote:

    if u supress fire on me im just gonna stand up and kill u. Seriously cmon now, its a game supressing fire its worthless in bf2 unless ur shooting with a chopper or a APC.
Sorry, but you're wrong; XStrangerDangerX is right here. Relatively fewer confirmed kills in real world military service are performed by the light machinegunner. His purpose is to pin down units with gunfire so that other soldiers can flank and kill the targets, because psychologically, being shot at by an MG is extremely upsetting and very likely to kill you. Of course, it is completely true that an MG can shred the crap out of anyone when properly deployed at midrange in real life. The reason suppressing fire fails in Battlefield 2, though, and succeeds in real life has to do with a lot of factors that are difficult to describe, including physics and psychology, as well as balancing factors that necessitate making MGs somewhat unrealistic in-game, but players also simply care less if they die and are consequently willing to take risks.

Another important fact is that you get torn to pieces way faster in the real world; hence, Battlefield 2 players can risk taking a stray bullet much more easily and still kill their target.

The real problem with this last fact is that for the record, in the real world, if a guy with a PKM was laying down suppressing fire at what is real-world long range and the guy with an M-16 had the balls to get up and shoot back... he'd very likely win, granting that at midrange he'd very likely be cut to bits before he sights his target. At any rate, cover fire is not as important as direct hits and kills if everybody just wants to do lots of damage and doesn't particularly care if they die or not, within reason.

Last edited by Bloody_Eye (2006-03-16 03:56:52)

RedHot
Member
+9|6768
Lol all this talk of realism, i'll say it 100 times, "Realism doesnt make good games"
In reality a single bullet from almost any of these guns should have stopping power on a soldier, but they dont to make the game fun. Seriously can everyone shut the fuck up about realism and what guns they personally have fired, nobody cares.
Personally i think its nice to actually be able to kill something with the support guns now (seeing as if all you were supposed to do was suppress the enemy NOBODY would play support you tools), but i agree that the pkm having the same dammage as the stock PLA, and MEC sniper rifles is a little over powered with its new accuracy. Try bumping it down to 37ish, or 40 dammage instead of 45 and i think it would make a lot of people happy.
-fe.lep-
Member
+8|6741

XstrangerdangerX wrote:

Glad to see some intelligent opinions on this forum (unlike the banned tool above).
I notice your stats are missing, if you were referring to me?


Thanks all for your opinions, except for those people whose opinions don't count. Sadly, you don't know who you are.
When testing 1.21 EA took a number of players and asked for their input to try and iron out the bugs, How many of them on that test server do you think had under 20,000 points?


https://www.bf2player.com/sig/45167778-3959.png

Last edited by -fe.lep- (2006-03-17 04:41:36)

Poncho
and I'm not a raincoat...
+91|6746|NL

Inquatitis wrote:

i agree, the PKM became the new noobtube/sniper rifle for BF2.
DICE fcked it up again.

all is said! what is there to discuss?
XstrangerdangerX
conversation is combat
+36|6668|Tasmania

-fe.lep- wrote:

XstrangerdangerX wrote:

Glad to see some intelligent opinions on this forum (unlike the banned tool above).
I notice your stats are missing, if you were referring to me?


Thanks all for your opinions, except for those people whose opinions don't count. Sadly, you don't know who you are.
When testing 1.21 EA took a number of players and asked for their input to try and iron out the bugs, How many of them on that test server do you think had under 20,000 points?


http://www.bf2player.com/sig/45167778-3959.png
Yes, I was referring to you, tool.

I guess it's nice for you to have something in your life that you can be the boss of.

Certainly at least, the game won't touch you like your uncle does.
<b|k> lukie
Member
+7|6761|Germany
To my mind a PKM should not have the ability to be ready to fire after a millisecond AND being accurate. The reaction time is to fast for a big machine gun. But it can be as accurate as it is now.

Just 'felt' someone today, who mastered the 'kill before touching the ground'.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6654|do not disturb

As someone who used the PKM and other support weapons since this game was released, I can tell you that it is about time they fixed this weapon. Several things about it have been changed since the first release, including time to deploy which many ANTI-PKM players may not realize.

I've played for over 580 hours, 60 of that as support, so no saying my opinion is irrelevant because of experience. I do realize that before the patch, support rifles were not as accurate as they could be, but the idea behind the support class was the quantity of fire, not the quality. Though, it was still too shabby. Now this doesn't mean any of the support classes were broken, as you seem to think.

Before the accuracy fix in 1.2, you could start firing at enemy that was 20m away and only see one (maybe two) hit in a five round burst. 20m away? That is horrible accuracy compared to other weapons that do only slightly less damage (like Assault & Medic weapons). That made the kit useless except for resupply and grenade spamming when going head to head against infantry. Granted this is a game, but in real life this weapon slices infantry like butter at 50m and is extremely accurate.

Hey, did everyone forget about the shotguns? Overall, meaning all the shotguns combined effectiveness, they suck at close range. When they are effective, it's only at 20 meters or less, when in reality, some of the shotguns are effective at 100 meters. So much for realism in this game, but I digress.

So the support class lacked some accuracy, does this mean it deserved the insane accuracy increase? In my opinion, no. Yours is different, but maybe I can enlighten you why I beg to differ. First off, when balancing, it's good to know what is over powered, what is under powered, and what the norm of balance is. Maybe the support rifles were a little under powered, but the incredibly accurate spec op and medic guns were too accurate in some situations? Sure they are good at long-med range encounters, but they are more than a match sometimes with shotguns, which are supposed to be defenseive, in which it should save your life. Not that medic rifles or carbines shouldn't be accurate, but you shouldn't be able to snipe with them.

Before 1.2, you could jump down off of something go prone and fire. Granted your accuracy sucked, but you could still shoot. Now, whenever you jump over a wall, off a box, over a sandbag, whatever and go prone, you have to WAIT two seconds before you can start shooting, PERIOD. I always avoid jumping at all costs because I know that wait is coming if I hop just once. If you do experience this, you hold your breath for two seconds waiting for your gun to deploy hoping the guy shooting at you can't hit shit.

First off, support players are supposed to be prone to be effective. When they are, they can be deadly. So by implying that before 1.2, you couldn't instantly deploy and be effective almost all the time is absurd. The support class is supposed to have a draw back, and that's for it to be notoriously inaccurate while standing or moving, but what you want is to instantly go prone and not have to deploy so you are not at a disadvantage and always at an advantage. This is like someone with a shotgun who can't hit a guy at 100 meters, so he magically runs up to him in a second and mauls him with the DAO-12. It's called balance, and it's delicate. So the support gunner isn't meant to be a sniper, but he is good at long ranges while prone. Medics, assault, and spec op classes are good at short, med, and long range engagements and such; shitty engineers are supposed to be good at close quarters, but they lack that; snipers are good at long-med to long ranges.

Body-armor versus speed. This class compared to other true infantry (spec ops, assault, medic) is insanely slow. I am sure many of ANTI-PKM players out there appreciate when they are running for a chopper or tank and always win against their support teammates. It is like the support class smoked 5 cartons of Marboro before the round started.

A second or less won't kill you buddy, especially if you can gun someone down with a few shots at very long distances. And sir, you can't get extra body armor and not expect it to bog you down. And please, like there isn't a dozen people running for 2 jets and a chopper. Chances are a lot of people won't get them.

So, I say STFU and play. If every class was perfectly balanced, then why would you have different classes at all? Just have one standard kit on both teams with no upgrades and no differences in vehicles. Then you could call it boring and would stop playing in a week because all the good players "are just hacking".

Telling someone to STFU is a good way to get your argument across the table. No game that is dependent on balance is perfect, but it is very obvious when there are balance flaws. Ever played a good RTS game? How can a game like Warcraft III have so much diversity, yet be so well balanced? Diversity doesn't mean you can't have balance, and when you do achieve balance, it's superb.

So this is what I think. Light machine guns do need to be deployed, but when they are, they should be very accurate. Not insanely accurate, just reasonably accurate. There is no doubt that the PKM should be a more accurate and damage alternative to other LMGs, but it shouldn't be the most accurate. That's the MG36's job, and it's not the strongest of the bunch. But support players need to be elevated and prone in order to be the death machines they are, not to be able to go prone while aiming down the site and squeezing off a few rounds killing off some guy who doesn't even have a second to retaliate, let alone finish you off. This goes for all guns where you can seamlessly go prone while aiming down the site and making a very accurate kill. Landing face first and aiming your gun will cause a short disorientation, and especially inaccuracy since your gun isn't necessarily aiming in the middle of the crosshairs as depicted. Your gun is aiming up as you are brining it down while going prone, how can you shit something unless you spray and pray? Even when doing that, you are not yet in position to absorb the kick of the gun, furthering the inaccuracy. But hey, once you're prone, you are now one deadly marksman, which is ok! So rant along, flame me, or question my opinion. If it has to do with realism in the game, well, then ok. Since some of the game is and isn't, I guess it's fair.

Last edited by Hellogoodsir (2006-03-18 00:05:48)

imdead
Death StatPadder
+228|6808|Human Meat Shield
I actually read that...


My eyes hurt, but I read it...

And you know what? he's right.
-fe.lep-
Member
+8|6741

-fe.lep- wrote:

XstrangerdangerX wrote:

-fe.lep- wrote:


I notice your stats are missing, if you were referring to me?



When testing 1.21 EA took a number of players and asked for their input to try and iron out the bugs, How many of them on that test server do you think had under 20,000 points?


http://www.bf2player.com/sig/45167778-3959.png
Yes, I was referring to you, tool.

I guess it's nice for you to have something in your life that you can be the boss of.

Certainly at least, the game won't touch you like your uncle does.
Go back to CS kid, Petty insults will take you a long way there.

Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

Stats?

http://www.bf2player.com/sig/45167778-3959.png
XstrangerdangerX
conversation is combat
+36|6668|Tasmania

-fe.lep- wrote:

-fe.lep- wrote:

XstrangerdangerX wrote:


Yes, I was referring to you, tool.

I guess it's nice for you to have something in your life that you can be the boss of.

Certainly at least, the game won't touch you like your uncle does.
Go back to CS kid, Petty insults will take you a long way there.

Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience

Stats?

http://www.bf2player.com/sig/45167778-3959.png
I believe you fired first, chum.

And what's with the cliche? Uncle Bob fucked the sense out of you?

Seriously though, you're right. I shouldn't argue with someone who has such a big wang.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6654|do not disturb

Fe.Lep, I believe I supported XstrangerdangerX's point enough since he is a newbie. You can argue with me on the issue.

And that was both uncalled for, especially XstrangerdangerX for saying some crude words. Don't think though that your opinion matters more mainly because you have more experience. While time with something does bring enlightenment about the issue, it also helps that people think logically and reason intelligently instead of saying "No, your opinion is dumb because you've only played this # of hours so you're noob." Instead, maybe a mature, well-though, and logical response can help him understand your stance rather than troll him.

Some of you guys really flex your e-muscle to much. Don't feel so threatened when someone brings a point up. Is questioning some people's gameplay a crime? And thanks to the guy who read my post.

And I've got plenty to rant about. This game isn't balanced enough to be fair IMO, but hey what's wrong with making things fair these days? Do people really need to take the easy way to rise above? Amazing. The true scapegoat is the noob.
XstrangerdangerX
conversation is combat
+36|6668|Tasmania
Hellogoodsir, I appreciate your attempt at mediation, but you take the internet far too seriously. Fe.Lep shouldn't have sounded off like he did, the intraweb knows this kind of behaviour as "trolling".

I take no responsibility for fe.leps being mishandled by his family members. And as you can imagine it is a sensitive subject for fe.lep and I would thank you for not  bringing it up again.

As to fe.lep, schlurp my bork.

Last edited by XstrangerdangerX (2006-03-18 18:31:53)

XstrangerdangerX
conversation is combat
+36|6668|Tasmania
I have also been playing support since I made this thread and I must say, I'm getting an enormously good K/D from it, so there is something to be said for it's accuracy and damage.

Also, I've clocked up a monumental 22 hours of play now, and having shaken of the arcade madness of enemy territory, I'm getting into the swing of things.

I would also like to report that fe.lep likes teh knobs.
TrollmeaT
Aspiring Objectivist
+492|6711|Colorado
pkm deadlyness is here to stay, time to adapt.
imdead
Death StatPadder
+228|6808|Human Meat Shield
Mmmhhhmmm. PKM has always been my first choice; then the G3; It is the same for me, no difference, but since there are no more noobtoobers/bunny-hoppers/C4 chuckers people have resorted to a different Kit, and the PKM has always been the strongest assault weapon, but the easiest to kill... when you use it -- don't go prone all the time, it actually does great when standing in CQC, you are a sitting duck for snipers and my G3  and someones knife.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6654|do not disturb

Oh sorry I won't defend you anymore, and is talking about somsone's wang, their uncle in a sexual mannar, and insulting them cleary offensive? Even though it did make me giggle, we need to respect other's opinons that's all.
XstrangerdangerX
conversation is combat
+36|6668|Tasmania

Hellogoodsir wrote:

Oh sorry I won't defend you anymore, and is talking about somsone's wang, their uncle in a sexual mannar, and insulting them cleary offensive? Even though it did make me giggle, we need to respect other's opinons that's all.
I would think it clear that I need no defender.

And I must say, I'm suitably impressed that you can sit down and type long sentences on the internet with that stick up your arse.

Last edited by XstrangerdangerX (2006-03-19 01:15:41)

imdead
Death StatPadder
+228|6808|Human Meat Shield
Wow. I guess that's what you get when someone's ego and pride is in the way, when someone is on your side. You get a reply like that ^^^
XstrangerdangerX
conversation is combat
+36|6668|Tasmania
I'm just a big nasty troll.
coldfyre99
Member
+-2|6667
Take the "r" out of "troll" and you might be getting closer to the truth.
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6654|do not disturb

Being cute doesn't make that any less offensive, joke or not. I’m just trying to make a friend or two.
XstrangerdangerX
conversation is combat
+36|6668|Tasmania
then you should go to www.seriousbusiness.com, or better yet, turn off your internet and go outside.

I mean really....
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6654|do not disturb

I live in the sticks, and I can assure you I go outside more than you think. I'm an outdoors kind of guy, and I have friends, just not on here. I guess your uncle is the only person who can be your friend.

Don't post dumb links like that either.

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