can you please give us a quick breakdown of how it will work and why this is bad?
Quote of the year so far "Fifa 11 on the other hand... shiny things for mongos "-mtb0minime
Why not? It seems to make sense, unless i missed something?
Could someone please elaborate how this is a bad thing?
(2) Handgun ammunition accounts for eighty percent (80%) of all ammunition sold in the United States
wtf? seriously? handgun ammo outpaces all other rifle cartridges by THAT much?
(a) All handgun and assault weapon ammunition manufactured or sold in the state after January 1, 2009, shall be coded by the manufacturer.
uh.... since an "assault weapon" is usualy an "assault weapon" by having a bayonet lug/pistol grip/detachable magazine afaik, how the hell will they know what it's going to?
so... they're making a massive black market for uncoded bullets for criminals to make a shitload of money off of and continue to use? way to go i guess
lol at the banner of www.ammunitionaccountability.org "Saving lives one bullet at a time"
edit:
wtf? seriously? handgun ammo outpaces all other rifle cartridges by THAT much?
(a) All handgun and assault weapon ammunition manufactured or sold in the state after January 1, 2009, shall be coded by the manufacturer.
uh.... since an "assault weapon" is usualy an "assault weapon" by having a bayonet lug/pistol grip/detachable magazine afaik, how the hell will they know what it's going to?
so... they're making a massive black market for uncoded bullets for criminals to make a shitload of money off of and continue to use? way to go i guess
lol at the banner of www.ammunitionaccountability.org "Saving lives one bullet at a time"
edit:
it works in theory, not in practise. this would only work if you could completely remove any and all existing ammunition that currently exists. as well as all reloading supplies including bullet molds... and the tools to make more bullet molds... and casting equipmentBalok77 wrote:
Why not? It seems to make sense, unless i missed something?
because it's a feel good law that will just make another thing criminals can make money at while fucking honest citizensapollo_fi wrote:
Could someone please elaborate how this is a bad thing?
Last edited by krazed (2009-01-31 11:53:22)
Backdoor assault on the 2nd amendment. Even reloading one's own ammo could be construed as illegal because it's "unregistered".apollo_fi wrote:
Could someone please elaborate how this is a bad thing?
If it wasn't for the avatar and user titles I'd get Stingray and Spearhead mixed up every time I read their post. Regardless of their actually content of course. I'm sure that's some kind of mental illness.
Anyway I like guns just as much as anyone else but I like this bill. I don't like the idea of "If you have nothing to hide don't worry then". But with this Bill unless your bullets end up in somebody their not supposed to. You really have nothing to worry about.
We don't need massive gun control we just need smart gun control.
Anyway I like guns just as much as anyone else but I like this bill. I don't like the idea of "If you have nothing to hide don't worry then". But with this Bill unless your bullets end up in somebody their not supposed to. You really have nothing to worry about.
We don't need massive gun control we just need smart gun control.
All it would do is create a black market for unmarked bullets and firearms etc..
Incorrect, this isn't about bullets ending up in someone. If I have ammunition sitting in my gun safe that is not registered, I have broken this law. That's not freedom in my book.uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
But with this Bill unless your bullets end up in somebody their not supposed to. You really have nothing to worry about.
yeah well it isn't smart gun control, it's very vague and pointless gun control
What if the government offered to buy back your untagged ammo or trade you tagged ammo for it? Compromise enough for you illustrious sir?Stingray24 wrote:
Incorrect, this isn't about bullets ending up in someone. If I have ammunition sitting in my gun safe that is not registered, I have broken this law. That's not freedom in my book.uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
But with this Bill unless your bullets end up in somebody their not supposed to. You really have nothing to worry about.
No. The government has no right to track or tag the guns or ammunition of law abiding citizens.
Disclaimer: I own a gun, but I am not a gun-nut.
I think this would be stupid.
Big promise of personal identity safety with nothing to back it up there.
"Well Jackio, you're going to prison for 15 years for murder. Oh, and you'll have to do 1 year of community service afterwards because you "scraped" your bullets."
An "assault weapon" is no different than a hunting rifle. Except that it usually has automatic fire. Or something else that makes it "scary", like a pistol grip or being painted black. The same ammunition that my 10round, single shot rifle consumes is the same stuff that MANY soldiers roll into battle with in 30 to 100 round auto-firing weapons. Same. Ammo.
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From another angle, this is going to make a whole new kind of straw man. It's already enough of a problem to acquire hand guns that criminals do it illegally through "strawman" purchasers. This bill would simply create yet another kind of strawman. Helpful.
I think this would be stupid.
That's an administration NIGHTMARE. I'm sure it could be done, in, say, 5 years from now with millions of dollars of investments. I guess.Simplified portion wrote:
The law would demand (and make punishable failure to comply) that all manufactures and vendors create explicit tracking of ammunition sales. All the way down to requiring Photo ID at time of purchase.
Yeah, cause Personal Information in electronic format hasn't been leaking out like crazy these days. I mean, sure that database hidden away on some machine in some office somewhere might be perfectly safe -- but what about the access at the hundreds or manufactures? How about the thousands of places that sell ammo? How secure will those be?(c) Privacy of individuals shall be of the utmost importance. Access to information in the ACSD is reserved for key law enforcement personnel and shall only be released in connection with a criminal investigation.
Big promise of personal identity safety with nothing to back it up there.
Yes. Helpful. So, the criminals which are KILLING PEOPLE with these bullets are going to be afraid of that.(c) Any person who knowingly destroys, obliterates, or otherwise renders unreadable, the serialization required pursuant to this act, on any bullet or assembled ammunition commits a Class A misdemeanor.
"Well Jackio, you're going to prison for 15 years for murder. Oh, and you'll have to do 1 year of community service afterwards because you "scraped" your bullets."
Wait, what? How come only shooters have to pay this fee? The vast majority of people who will go to a store, purchase this marked ammo, and use it will never be involved in any kind of crime like this. However, every single citizen will benefit from a coded bullet helping to solve a crime. So why doesn't every one have to pay for this?(a) The cost of establishing and maintaining the ACSD shall be funded by an end user fee. Vendors shall charge an additional one half cent ($.005) per bullet or round of ammunition to the purchaser.
For those not up on the lingo, that actually means "All ammo. Ever. Except shotguns."All handgun and assault weapon ammunition
An "assault weapon" is no different than a hunting rifle. Except that it usually has automatic fire. Or something else that makes it "scary", like a pistol grip or being painted black. The same ammunition that my 10round, single shot rifle consumes is the same stuff that MANY soldiers roll into battle with in 30 to 100 round auto-firing weapons. Same. Ammo.
----
From another angle, this is going to make a whole new kind of straw man. It's already enough of a problem to acquire hand guns that criminals do it illegally through "strawman" purchasers. This bill would simply create yet another kind of strawman. Helpful.
Awesome bro!!! Fuck compromise to reach even ground and get some kind of benefit from it, lets just stay to our far right position then whine when we get screwed.Stingray24 wrote:
No. The government has no right to track or tag the guns or ammunition of law abiding citizens.
It's nice to know who owns how much guns, which ones, and how much ammo for them somebody has before you arrest them for something. It's better for law enforcement and surely if your a law abiding citizen you shouldn't have to worry about the police trying to arrest you.
Nobody is busting down your door to take away your guns. They just want to know who has what bullets so that if 20 of them end up in somebody they know where to start their investigation.
What happens when the government decides to arrest me when I have broken no law? Weapons owned by law-abiding citizens are a deterrent to keep government from steamrolling their rights. If they know who has what and how much, it's that much easier for them to gain control against our will.
Again, you're wrong. They don't want to track ammo that's been fired in the commission of a crime. They simply want to track all ammunition. Period.
Again, you're wrong. They don't want to track ammo that's been fired in the commission of a crime. They simply want to track all ammunition. Period.
not yet.uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
Nobody is busting down your door to take away your guns.
but this will set an standard for them to move into more of MY rights.
uh oh.uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
They just want to know who has what bullets so that if 20 of them end up in somebody they know where to start their investigation.
someone isnt familiar with ballistics.
this may not be the thread for your my friend.
you have already shown your lack knowledge on this subject.
Is it ok to apply that logic to other things in your life?uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
It's nice to know who owns how much guns, which ones, and how much ammo for them somebody has before you arrest them for something.
Can I place a GPS tracker on you at all times, just in case you're ever in a fight, so the Police will know?
Would you like to be carded every time you buy a kitchen knife?
The reduction of privacy, however, is only one of the poor aspects of something like this. So try to not get too distracted by it.
FUCK LAW ENFORCEMENT. It's no ones business to know what I own, I'm not a fucking criminal, don't presume that I'm a criminal.uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
It's nice to know who owns how much guns, which ones, and how much ammo for them somebody has before you arrest them for something. It's better for law enforcement and surely if your a law abiding citizen you shouldn't have to worry about the police trying to arrest you.
Anyone ever needs a lawyer you know where to come....
woop woop
woop woop
Be back later to respond to your response to me in regards to me responding to your response to the OP.chuyskywalker wrote:
Disclaimer: I own a gun, but I am not a gun-nut.
I think this would be stupid.That's an administration NIGHTMARE. I'm sure it could be done, in, say, 5 years from now with millions of dollars of investments. I guess.Simplified portion wrote:
The law would demand (and make punishable failure to comply) that all manufactures and vendors create explicit tracking of ammunition sales. All the way down to requiring Photo ID at time of purchase.Yeah, cause Personal Information in electronic format hasn't been leaking out like crazy these days. I mean, sure that database hidden away on some machine in some office somewhere might be perfectly safe -- but what about the access at the hundreds or manufactures? How about the thousands of places that sell ammo? How secure will those be?(c) Privacy of individuals shall be of the utmost importance. Access to information in the ACSD is reserved for key law enforcement personnel and shall only be released in connection with a criminal investigation.
Big promise of personal identity safety with nothing to back it up there.Yes. Helpful. So, the criminals which are KILLING PEOPLE with these bullets are going to be afraid of that.(c) Any person who knowingly destroys, obliterates, or otherwise renders unreadable, the serialization required pursuant to this act, on any bullet or assembled ammunition commits a Class A misdemeanor.
"Well Jackio, you're going to prison for 15 years for murder. Oh, and you'll have to do 1 year of community service afterwards because you "scraped" your bullets."Wait, what? How come only shooters have to pay this fee? The vast majority of people who will go to a store, purchase this marked ammo, and use it will never be involved in any kind of crime like this. However, every single citizen will benefit from a coded bullet helping to solve a crime. So why doesn't every one have to pay for this?(a) The cost of establishing and maintaining the ACSD shall be funded by an end user fee. Vendors shall charge an additional one half cent ($.005) per bullet or round of ammunition to the purchaser.For those not up on the lingo, that actually means "All ammo. Ever. Except shotguns."All handgun and assault weapon ammunition
An "assault weapon" is no different than a hunting rifle. Except that it usually has automatic fire. Or something else that makes it "scary", like a pistol grip or being painted black. The same ammunition that my 10round, single shot rifle consumes is the same stuff that MANY soldiers roll into battle with in 30 to 100 round auto-firing weapons. Same. Ammo.
----
From another angle, this is going to make a whole new kind of straw man. It's already enough of a problem to acquire hand guns that criminals do it illegally through "strawman" purchasers. This bill would simply create yet another kind of strawman. Helpful.
1. We could force weapon's makers into paying into funding for the creation of the system.
2. Secure information. Maybe it won't be 100% secure but really what would somebody do with info with who has a bunch of guns? Go to their house and attempt to steal their guns. Possibly, that would be incredibly stupid to try to steal the guns of somebody who owns a bunch of them but whatever. Beside that having a really secure encryption method for all the info sent on regs to the main computer and having the info client side info deleted right after it's added would work.
3. For each unregistered bullet you use in a crime or have in your gun you get an extra year added to your sentence. Problem solved.
4. Ok so if your going to buy bullets be prepared to pay a extra tax on them on them. Something else for you think about before you're careless with it?
5. So?
6. Strawman problem. Yeah got me there. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there.
o btw I like this act..apologies to you gun lovers but I think America's lenience is ridiculous.
Um the government would never try to gain super control agaisnt our will and if they do try there's nothing stopping us from using our tagged ammo on them. Beside that our military would never try to take over it control of it's own people.Stingray24 wrote:
What happens when the government decides to arrest me when I have broken no law? Weapons owned by law-abiding citizens are a deterrent to keep government from steamrolling their rights. If they know who has what and how much, it's that much easier for them to gain control against our will.
Again, you're wrong. They don't want to track ammo that's been fired in the commission of a crime. They simply want to track all ammunition. Period.
I don't see a problem with tracking all ammo. Nobody's taking your guns away, just trying to keep track of where all the ammo is going and how much you own.
Ok if a bunch of bullets are fired and after they go through the person hit a wall. Now if we could match those bullets to the tagged cases on the ground then we know where the bullets came from.Parker wrote:
not yet.uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
Nobody is busting down your door to take away your guns.
but this will set an standard for them to move into more of MY rights.
uh oh.uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
They just want to know who has what bullets so that if 20 of them end up in somebody they know where to start their investigation.
someone isnt familiar with ballistics.
this may not be the thread for your my friend.
you have already shown your lack knowledge on this subject.
I was looking for simplicity in the statement.
No because I can't be bought in mass and then given to multiple people to commit crimes.chuyskywalker wrote:
Is it ok to apply that logic to other things in your life?uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
It's nice to know who owns how much guns, which ones, and how much ammo for them somebody has before you arrest them for something.
Can I place a GPS tracker on you at all times, just in case you're ever in a fight, so the Police will know?
Would you like to be carded every time you buy a kitchen knife?
The reduction of privacy, however, is only one of the poor aspects of something like this. So try to not get too distracted by it.
Not sure if sarcasm. If you ever commit a crime and we go to arrest you if we search the database before we break down your door to arrest you for something we would at least know before hand how many guns you have to shoot at the police.Reciprocity wrote:
FUCK LAW ENFORCEMENT. It's no ones business to know what I own, I'm not a fucking criminal, don't presume that I'm a criminal.uevjHEYFFQ wrote:
It's nice to know who owns how much guns, which ones, and how much ammo for them somebody has before you arrest them for something. It's better for law enforcement and surely if your a law abiding citizen you shouldn't have to worry about the police trying to arrest you.
Leaving be back in like 5 hours.
You honestly believe that when the government has the ability to track all ammo they'll stop there?
That's why you live in Europe and we live here. Hands off our freedoms...teddy..jimmy wrote:
o btw I like this act..apologies to you gun lovers but I think America's lenience is ridiculous.