BF2S Forums Fancy_Pollux's 12 step program for REAL change.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

3) Do not bail out banks. Predatory lending during the housing bubble helped create this mess, but they are instead rewarded with parties and vacations, while the tax payer receives the punishment.

On a realistic note though, what would happen if the banks weren't bailed out? Those of us who are lucky to get to the bank on time get their money out, everyone else has to do without and we all go back to an agrarian lifestyle?

FDIC

Fucking dicks insure cars?

EDIT: @Braddock, aha, GIYF.

Last edited by ghettoperson (2009-01-30 12:35:28)

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

FDIC

I'm not familiar with the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation... would they have enough cash to cover the demand of the people in the street? Why aren't they picking up the tab as we speak?

No. Bailout or FDIC reimbursement, it's borrowed money.

So what happens when everyone runs to the bank to withdraw their money?

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

No. Bailout or FDIC reimbursement, it's borrowed money.

So what happens when everyone runs to the bank to withdraw their money?

Don't understand where you're going with this. Our country is pretty much bankrupt. Were over $10 trillion in debt and will soon have an annual deficit of $1 trillion. Any money we spend is borrowed or printed out of thin air. Whether we use it to fund the bailouts and wine and cheese parties for executives, or reimbursing members of FDIC insured banks...it's still money we don't have. The system is broken, and trying to sustain it is only going to make the collapse that much more painful.

We need serious change, not better speeches.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no bailout fanboy (see my thread on Wall St. bonuses) but what you're talking about is SERIOUS change... as in '28 Days Later' change. My perception of the bailout is that it keeps the whole financial system on the rails, the alternative being a scenario whereby the monetary system as we know it collapses, people can no longer get money out of the ATM, social services no longer get paid and we all resort to mob rule and stock up on duck tape, ammo and tinned foods.

Last edited by Braddock (2009-01-30 12:52:19)

Yeah, much as I hate the bailouts, I think in the case of banks there's no choice. Braddock is right, there'd be fucking anarchy. I agree with not bailing out car companies and anything else non essential, but banks unfortunately have to stay afloat.

why Skittles?

FatherTed wrote:

why tape?

They always buy tape in the movies!

FatherTed wrote:

Braddock wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

why tape?

They always buy tape in the movies!

i'd be after batteries probably. damn xbox controller eats them like i eat small children

Get a corded or rechargeable.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

1) Withdraw all troops from and close all military bases in all foreign countries...all of them..

I can dig that.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

2) Do not bail out the auto industry. If they cannot produce a product people want to buy (or GM's case, make a profit on what they sell), then they deserve to fail. Sucks for Detroit. Sucks for the millions losing their jobs over this. But, there's no reason for it to suck for the American tax payer as well.

Assuming you mean, "don't bail them out further", I would agree.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

3) Do not bail out banks. Predatory lending during the housing bubble helped create this mess, but they are instead rewarded with parties and vacations, while the tax payer receives the punishment.

Too late....  although I agree with you.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

4) Do not bail out anyone. No private organization in a capitalist economy should ever be bailed out by the tax payer. If you take a risk, you should suffer the consequences if it fails, or reap the benefits if it succeeds.

5) Eliminate the Federal Reserve.

Agreed.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

6) Eliminate all income and business tax.

Sorry...  we can't cut taxes anymore until we start cutting spending first.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

7) Shift government and state spending on infrastructure towards mass transit and eliminating urban sprawl, not repairing roads and bridges. Cars are a thing of the past.

For the most part, I agree, although this is primarily a state government issue, not a federal one.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

8) End the war on drugs. Legalize everything.

You gotta do it one step at a time.  Legalize pot, and then let society adapt to that.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

9) End the war on terror..

I think a better idea would be to stop using invasion as a first resort.  The War on Terror is valid, but it needs to be done via diplomacy, not war.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

10) Drastically reduce military spending. Only maintain a defensive military.

I think a better move would be to cut the military in half.  We still need an offensive military, but it doesn't need to be 10 times the cost of our next biggest military spender (China).

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

11) Real separation of church and state.

Sure...  let's start by removing the tax exemption of religion.

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

12) Drastically increase carbon tax. Serious development of alternative, clean energy sources. Deadline on fossil fuel usage signed into law.

Unfortunately, none of this will happen.

Some of this has the potential to occur, but this last idea is a little too interventionist for my tastes.  Why not just remove all tax breaks for oil companies and replace these breaks with ones for alternative energy research?

Braddock wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Fancy_Pollux wrote:

3) Do not bail out banks. Predatory lending during the housing bubble helped create this mess, but they are instead rewarded with parties and vacations, while the tax payer receives the punishment.

Too late....  although I agree with you.

I admire your sense of principle guys but seriously, paint the picture for me of what would occur if the banks ceased to operate... because I think we're talking about absolute chaos.

I disagree.  The problem is that only certain banks fucked up.  There are plenty of banks that were more responsible and haven't needed any bailouts.  Those banks should be the ones that rightfully get to buy the falling ones.

I'd rather have corporations consolidate more than have to foot the bill of all the failing companies.

Braddock wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Braddock wrote:

I admire your sense of principle guys but seriously, paint the picture for me of what would occur if the banks ceased to operate... because I think we're talking about absolute chaos.

I disagree.  The problem is that only certain banks fucked up.  There are plenty of banks that were more responsible and haven't needed any bailouts.  Those banks should be the ones that rightfully get to buy the falling ones.

I'd rather have corporations consolidate more than have to foot the bill of all the failing companies.

So you are saying that there are banks out there who could absorb the hit if a major rush of withdrawals were to take place? I'm sure there are one or two but there seems to be an awful lot of irresponsible asshole banks out there, could the nation seriously handle the effects of these less prudent establishments? Just imagine 40% of the country can't get their cash out of the ATM and the rest of the responsible bank's capital now resides under mattresses ...what happens then?

I see what you're saying, but...  The banks that took the biggest hit were mostly predatory in their lending practices.  They reaped what they sowed.

A certain amount of distrust for banking will manifest regardless of what the government does, but digging us into massive debts doesn't help things.  We've essentially moved one step closer to the collapse of our currency.  We need to stop increasing the money supply so much and let the market clear itself.

It will be painful in the short run, but it's still better than completely destroying our currency.

Braddock wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I see what you're saying, but...  The banks that took the biggest hit were mostly predatory in their lending practices.  They reaped what they sowed.

A certain amount of distrust for banking will manifest regardless of what the government does, but digging us into massive debts doesn't help things.  We've essentially moved one step closer to the collapse of our currency.  We need to stop increasing the money supply so much and let the market clear itself.

It will be painful in the short run, but it's still better than completely destroying our currency.

I know it would be nice to teach the idiots a lesson but we have to be realistic, if the financial system seized up it would mean the end of modern economics as we know it. It would be apocalyptical. An all out rush on the banks would mean tinned foods, batteries, duck tape and ammo would leap straight to the top of the priority queue.

Again, i don't see the rationale with the duck tape.

Braddock wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I see what you're saying, but...  The banks that took the biggest hit were mostly predatory in their lending practices.  They reaped what they sowed.

A certain amount of distrust for banking will manifest regardless of what the government does, but digging us into massive debts doesn't help things.  We've essentially moved one step closer to the collapse of our currency.  We need to stop increasing the money supply so much and let the market clear itself.

It will be painful in the short run, but it's still better than completely destroying our currency.

I know it would be nice to teach the idiots a lesson but we have to be realistic, if the financial system seized up it would mean the end of modern economics as we know it. It would be apocalyptical. An all out rush on the banks would mean tinned foods, batteries, duck tape and ammo would leap straight to the top of the priority queue.

To be honest.... that might be necessary for the world to experience in the long run.  Sometimes, we have to learn things the hard way.

To me, bailouts are merely postponing the inevitable.