oh ya? well israel is surrounded by arab countries who hate them. and iran has threatened them tons of times. so, you root for israel in those cases right?AutralianChainsaw wrote:
I tend to always root for the underdog.
lolsureyado
lolsureyado
Just coz someone is the underdog doesn't necessarily mean they're right as well lol.usmarine wrote:
oh ya? well israel is surrounded by arab countries who hate them. and iran has threatened them tons of times. so, you root for israel in those cases right?AutralianChainsaw wrote:
I tend to always root for the underdog.
lolsureyado
Last edited by Cybargs (2009-01-29 16:26:17)
so you accuse the brits of ethnic cleansing also then yes?CameronPoe wrote:
No but they did expel hundreds of thousands of people from their homes, farms and businesses by force and superior military capability/strategy never allowing them to return and never paying them reparations (as the Germans did in atonement for the holocaust). Ethnic cleansing ftw!
You're not really familiar with Irish history are you. Ever heard of 'To Hell or to Connaught'. Ethnic cleansingorama.usmarine wrote:
so you accuse the brits of ethnic cleansing also then yes?CameronPoe wrote:
No but they did expel hundreds of thousands of people from their homes, farms and businesses by force and superior military capability/strategy never allowing them to return and never paying them reparations (as the Germans did in atonement for the holocaust). Ethnic cleansing ftw!
so yes or no?
Of course yes. Duh.usmarine wrote:
so yes or no?
I don't think anyone is in the position to claim whether it is or it isn't, but if someone feels that, as a Jew, that they personally are experiencing and thinking that the actions of Israel is increasing hatred towards Jews (aka themselves) - You can't really go out there and tell that person they are wrong. Maybe that's the truth for the area in which they live in, only they will know for sure. Besides, it's not exactly totally weird and illogical to think that Israels recent actions couldn't possibly increase anti-Jew sentiment around the world.Poseidon wrote:
You put out your feelings quite clearly in the OP, Serge. Dunno how it could get any more obvious than that. You think Israel is increasing anti-semitism. It's not. People are using it as an excuse. You didn't say that.
People here are saying shit like how everyone hates Jews, or alot of people do, and they're just using Israels actions as an excuse to justify their hatred. That's a pretty stupid statement. Although I can see where you're coming from. Especially considering how Jews have been treated in history, in certain parts of the world, but still, to say that that's the only reason and it couldn't possibly be that Israels recent actions have tarnished the reputation of Jews is....ignorant.
You're both probably right when it comes to this.
Look at it both ways
I'd still say that the underdog would be the Arabs/Muslims. I mean cmon, Israel has the complete backing of the USA and some other European countries. Israel probably wouldn't have lasted this long and would've lost one of the wars a long time ago (even the first one, war of independence) if it wasn't for them having strong backing from various countries mainly the USA, and the USSR/Eastern Bloc was pretty friendly too considering the amount of Eastern Europeans with ties to the USSR that were in Israel, they were in the perfect position. Saying that, the Arabs really did perform terrible.usmarine wrote:
oh ya? well israel is surrounded by arab countries who hate them. and iran has threatened them tons of times. so, you root for israel in those cases right?AutralianChainsaw wrote:
I tend to always root for the underdog.
lolsureyado
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-01-29 17:17:29)
You make an assload of sense.Mekstizzle wrote:
I don't think anyone is in the position to claim whether it is or it isn't, but if someone feels that, as a Jew, that they personally are experiencing and thinking that the actions of Israel is increasing hatred towards Jews (aka themselves) - You can't really go out there and tell that person they are wrong. Maybe that's the truth for the area in which they live in, only they will know for sure. Besides, it's not exactly totally weird and illogical to think that Israels recent actions couldn't possibly increase anti-Jew sentiment around the world.Poseidon wrote:
You put out your feelings quite clearly in the OP, Serge. Dunno how it could get any more obvious than that. You think Israel is increasing anti-semitism. It's not. People are using it as an excuse. You didn't say that.
People here are saying shit like how everyone hates Jews, or alot of people do, and they're just using Israels actions as an excuse to justify their hatred. That's a pretty stupid statement. Although I can see where you're coming from. Especially considering how Jews have been treated in history, in certain parts of the world, but still, to say that that's the only reason and it couldn't possibly be that Israels recent actions have tarnished the reputation of Jews is....ignorant.
You're both probably right when it comes to this.
Look at it both ways
I'm not saying that it's the ONLY reason, but most people do use Israel's actions to justify their own personal hatred. I mean, really...do you honestly think all of these people suddenly truly care about the well being of the poor Palestineans? I don't see these people going up in arms about what's going on about Darfur and whatnot.
I mean, perfect example on these forums...you get people like CamPoe who debates Israel just as much as he debates anything else, really. And then you get the people who suddenly pop up out of nowhere just to criticize Israel, acting like they care oh so much about the poor, impoverished Palestineans. Doesn't that strike you as just a bit...odd?
Probably because Israel has been such an ongoing issue now, 60+ years. Whereas all these African conflicts come and go and are always slightly different, and nobody really knows what's going on and who is who. And it's not like major Western countries (specifically, one's we're all in) get involved in that, so that's even less of a reason for people here to get involved in them. Whereas when it comes to Israel, because so many countries are involved in it, it also brings alot of people here into it.
Also, you could say the same thing about yourself with regards to what you said about Cam and other people. Except, vice versa.
It's just how it is
Also, you could say the same thing about yourself with regards to what you said about Cam and other people. Except, vice versa.
It's just how it is
Darfur was just one example. There are plenty of other travesties that have been going on/are currently going on that are way worse than what Israel is apparentely "doing" and these people pop-up only to criticize Israel, and Israel only.
Who here pops up just to defend Israel? Besides Lisik, I mean. But that's a given, and he actually lives in Israel.
Who here pops up just to defend Israel? Besides Lisik, I mean. But that's a given, and he actually lives in Israel.
There are two options:Mekstizzle wrote:
People here are saying shit like how everyone hates Jews, or alot of people do, and they're just using Israels actions as an excuse to justify their hatred. That's a pretty stupid statement. Although I can see where you're coming from. Especially considering how Jews have been treated in history, in certain parts of the world, but still, to say that that's the only reason and it couldn't possibly be that Israels recent actions have tarnished the reputation of Jews is....ignorant.
1. A good number of people in the world are born with a genetic urge to be anti-semitic, and use Israels atrocities and anti-social actions as an excuse to attack jews.
2. Israelies carry out atrocities and anti-social actions and a good number of people hate them for it, this spills over into attacks on jews.
Personally I think anti-semiticism is a myth.
The jews haven't suffered much worse than any other race/group, some groups have been totally annihilated after all, they just use the idea to deflect attention.
You're allowed to criticise anyone you like, but not Israel or jews - because thats anti-semiticism.
Does it strike you as odd that Lisiks posts on this forum are almost solely related to defending Israel, attacking muslims and arabs and spreading Zionist progaganda and historical lies?Posiedon wrote:
And then you get the people who suddenly pop up out of nowhere just to criticize Israel, acting like they care oh so much about the poor, impoverished Palestineans. Doesn't that strike you as just a bit...odd?
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-29 23:22:24)
Fuck Israel
I never said Israel was the only reason either. I hate seeing Israel doing these things because it's not helping their cause. In the long run, Israel needs to look forward to live in peace with their neighbors, and slaughtering kids isn't the way to achieve that. And believe me, I do care about Palestinians, and the only way I know to help them is voicing my dislike for Israel's actions. And of course, Hamas isn't helping either. I opened several threads about Darfur, Zimbabwe, Genocide, etc. I find your accusations of yesterday a bit unfair, but let's forget it. You are free to think whatever you want.Poseidon wrote:
You make an assload of sense.
I'm not saying that it's the ONLY reason, but most people do use Israel's actions to justify their own personal hatred. I mean, really...do you honestly think all of these people suddenly truly care about the well being of the poor Palestineans? I don't see these people going up in arms about what's going on about Darfur and whatnot.
I mean, perfect example on these forums...you get people like CamPoe who debates Israel just as much as he debates anything else, really. And then you get the people who suddenly pop up out of nowhere just to criticize Israel, acting like they care oh so much about the poor, impoverished Palestineans. Doesn't that strike you as just a bit...odd?
Last edited by sergeriver (2009-01-30 03:26:10)
OK, Dilbert. How do you square your theory with the fact that Jews were persecuted--strictly for being Jewish--long before Israel even existed? Long before any acts of zionist terrorism in the Mandate of Palestine?
How does that fit your theory?
Antisemitism is real. The fact that other groups have suffered as much or more than the Jews throughout history does not suddenly mean that antisemitism doesn't exist. The issues are unrelated.
One can't criticize anyone they wish to...they are labeled "racist", regardless of the applicability of the term.
How does that fit your theory?
Antisemitism is real. The fact that other groups have suffered as much or more than the Jews throughout history does not suddenly mean that antisemitism doesn't exist. The issues are unrelated.
One can't criticize anyone they wish to...they are labeled "racist", regardless of the applicability of the term.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Of course it's real, it existed for thousands of years. The only thing I said is Israel isn't helping to curb anti-Semitism.FEOS wrote:
OK, Dilbert. How do you square your theory with the fact that Jews were persecuted--strictly for being Jewish--long before Israel even existed? Long before any acts of zionist terrorism in the Mandate of Palestine?
How does that fit your theory?
Antisemitism is real. The fact that other groups have suffered as much or more than the Jews throughout history does not suddenly mean that antisemitism doesn't exist. The issues are unrelated.
One can't criticize anyone they wish to...they are labeled "racist", regardless of the applicability of the term.
Is your name "Dilbert", serge?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
People have always despised other people, groups have always despised other groups.FEOS wrote:
OK, Dilbert. How do you square your theory with the fact that Jews were persecuted--strictly for being Jewish--long before Israel even existed? Long before any acts of zionist terrorism in the Mandate of Palestine?
Why do Arsenal supporters persecute Liverpool supporters?
Why do Protestants persecute Catholics?
Why does everyone hate the Irish?
The jews are nothing special, in terms of being singled out for persecution, they've just found a way of using it to their advantage.
Then antiislamicism is real.Antisemitism is real. The fact that other groups have suffered as much or more than the Jews throughout history does not suddenly mean that antisemitism doesn't exist. The issues are unrelated.
The 9/11 attacks were just an excuse used by the antiislamicists to perpetuate the 1,000 year hate they have been indoctrinated with by their ancestors.
See how ridiculous it is?
A tiny handful of islamic terrorists kill ~2,000 US civilians and all we've heard for the last eight years is 'Fuckin' mooslims, we gotta kill em all. They smell bad too, fuckin' mooslims, mustn't talk to the moderate majority, that'd be fuckin' appeasin' turrists, kill em all'
The Israeli nation has been slaughtering arab civilians by the thousands for the last 60 years, recently 1,000 in Lebanon, now 1,000 in Gaza - and you guys can't understand why the arabs don't like them and just live in peace and harmony with their wonderful neighbours?
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-30 03:50:25)
Fuck Israel
This isn't your, or my, private forum.FEOS wrote:
Is your name "Dilbert", serge?
Sergriver wrote the OP.
Fuck Israel
Antisemitism is just a stupid term that means "racist towards Jews" - I mean, if you're racist against any other race you're "just racist", but if you're racist against Jews you're "anti-semetic". So yes, Anti-Semitism doesn't really exist, racism and bigotry etc.. does, but anti-semitism... it's just a made up word to make Jews feel special in some weird victimised way.FEOS wrote:
OK, Dilbert. How do you square your theory with the fact that Jews were persecuted--strictly for being Jewish--long before Israel even existed? Long before any acts of zionist terrorism in the Mandate of Palestine?
How does that fit your theory?
Antisemitism is real. The fact that other groups have suffered as much or more than the Jews throughout history does not suddenly mean that antisemitism doesn't exist. The issues are unrelated.
One can't criticize anyone they wish to...they are labeled "racist", regardless of the applicability of the term.
Kind of like how it's called the Holocaust and not just Genocide like people have described similar acts against mankind throughout history.
About Lisik: No it doesn't because he's been living there, tought about that shit at school from a young age, so no it doesn't strike me odd.Dilbert_X wrote:
There are two options:Mekstizzle wrote:
People here are saying shit like how everyone hates Jews, or alot of people do, and they're just using Israels actions as an excuse to justify their hatred. That's a pretty stupid statement. Although I can see where you're coming from. Especially considering how Jews have been treated in history, in certain parts of the world, but still, to say that that's the only reason and it couldn't possibly be that Israels recent actions have tarnished the reputation of Jews is....ignorant.
1. A good number of people in the world are born with a genetic urge to be anti-semitic, and use Israels atrocities and anti-social actions as an excuse to attack jews.
2. Israelies carry out atrocities and anti-social actions and a good number of people hate them for it, this spills over into attacks on jews.
Personally I think anti-semiticism is a myth.
The jews haven't suffered much worse than any other race/group, some groups have been totally annihilated after all, they just use the idea to deflect attention.
You're allowed to criticise anyone you like, but not Israel or jews - because thats anti-semiticism.Does it strike you as odd that Lisiks posts on this forum are almost solely related to defending Israel, attacking muslims and arabs and spreading Zionist progaganda and historical lies?Posiedon wrote:
And then you get the people who suddenly pop up out of nowhere just to criticize Israel, acting like they care oh so much about the poor, impoverished Palestineans. Doesn't that strike you as just a bit...odd?
I agree with Poseidon here, everyone goes ZOMG ISRAEL KILLS BLEEEEEEEEH, and when shit happens in Darfur, they just turn a blind eye. Notice how people like Rammunition and AutrianChainsaw post mostly Israeli related threads and they bash and criticise Israel to death, whilst not giving a shit like Darfur.
pals get just as much support from other countries. but there is a difference skittles. our allies take an active approach. arabs just sit back and bitch.Mekstizzle wrote:
I'd still say that the underdog would be the Arabs/Muslims. I mean cmon, Israel has the complete backing of the USA and some other European countries. Israel probably wouldn't have lasted this long and would've lost one of the wars a long time ago (even the first one, war of independence) if it wasn't for them having strong backing from various countries mainly the USA, and the USSR/Eastern Bloc was pretty friendly too considering the amount of Eastern Europeans with ties to the USSR that were in Israel, they were in the perfect position. Saying that, the Arabs really did perform terrible.
I wanted to clarify that. Sorry for getting involved in your private conversation.FEOS wrote:
Is your name "Dilbert", serge?
Absolutely agreed.usmarine wrote:
pals get just as much support from other countries. but there is a difference skittles. our allies take an active approach. arabs just sit back and bitch.Mekstizzle wrote:
I'd still say that the underdog would be the Arabs/Muslims. I mean cmon, Israel has the complete backing of the USA and some other European countries. Israel probably wouldn't have lasted this long and would've lost one of the wars a long time ago (even the first one, war of independence) if it wasn't for them having strong backing from various countries mainly the USA, and the USSR/Eastern Bloc was pretty friendly too considering the amount of Eastern Europeans with ties to the USSR that were in Israel, they were in the perfect position. Saying that, the Arabs really did perform terrible.
In the case of many genuine anti-semites you may be right but there are a lot of people out there who are not necessarily racist but rather not very well-informed who are having their perception of Jewish people in general clouded by the actions of Zionist extremists... a bit like the way many moderate Muslims are being tarred with the same brush as Islamic extremists. I'm not saying this justifies anything as it's still ignorance on their part but one can't deny that Israel's actions are blackening the image of the religion whose interests they claim to act on behalf of.san4 wrote:
There will always be something to get the Jew-haters riled up. There always has been. Before Israel existed, Jews were expelled from England, France and Spain, subjected to restrictions in Russia, and mass-murdered in Germany. And you are saying Israel is causing hatred of Jews to increase? Wake up Serge. Israel is just the latest excuse.
Do you see where I'm coming from?
Different time period by like, 400 years.CameronPoe wrote:
You're not really familiar with Irish history are you. Ever heard of 'To Hell or to Connaught'. Ethnic cleansingorama.usmarine wrote:
so you accuse the brits of ethnic cleansing also then yes?CameronPoe wrote:
No but they did expel hundreds of thousands of people from their homes, farms and businesses by force and superior military capability/strategy never allowing them to return and never paying them reparations (as the Germans did in atonement for the holocaust). Ethnic cleansing ftw!
Israel pushing people from their homes is a far cry from putting one in their skull and sticking them in a big hole or a comparative oven.
How do you view the expulsion of the the Germans following WW2?
Last edited by M.O.A.B (2009-01-30 07:48:39)
Somehow they've made the mass killings of several groups all about them.Mekstizzle wrote:
Kind of like how it's called the Holocaust and not just Genocide like people have described similar acts against mankind throughout history.
Victims Killed
Jews 5.9 million
Soviet POWs 2–3 million
Ethnic Poles 1.8–2 million
Roma 220,000–500,000
Disabled 200,000–250,000
Freemasons 80,000–200,000
Homosexuals 5,000–15,000
Jehovah's Witnesses 2,500–5,000