Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7070|UK

Dilbert_X wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Exactly, not a HUGE amount of unemployed, with the money saved Im pretty damn sure jobs could be created, a soldier costs a lot of money to maintain.
Rather less than say a pilot and his aircraft or a sailor and his boat.

Armies are cheap, and they soak up a good number of unskilled young blokes who would otherwise be unemployed and causing trouble.
My point is that with the money you spend training them to kill could be used to train them in something that actually benefits the country.

As I have already pointed out, an army is not needed if you have nukes and don't plan to invade anybody. Therefore in this day and age where Imperialism is frowned upon training people to kill as infantry is unnecessary.
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7018|US
The problem is nuclear warfare is not applicable to asymetric warfare. 
Glassing a country is not the solution to every war, even in a defensive stance.
It would be nice if things were that simple, but they aren't.  The USAF bought into that theory in the '50s, and suffered terribly for it when we tried to fight a conventional war with a mainly nuclear designed force.



Those who beat their swords into plows will plow for those who didn't.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2009-01-25 17:10:30)

Commie Killer
Member
+192|6690

Vilham wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Exactly, not a HUGE amount of unemployed, with the money saved Im pretty damn sure jobs could be created, a soldier costs a lot of money to maintain.
Rather less than say a pilot and his aircraft or a sailor and his boat.

Armies are cheap, and they soak up a good number of unskilled young blokes who would otherwise be unemployed and causing trouble.
My point is that with the money you spend training them to kill could be used to train them in something that actually benefits the country.

As I have already pointed out, an army is not needed if you have nukes and don't plan to invade anybody. Therefore in this day and age where Imperialism is frowned upon training people to kill as infantry is unnecessary.
Right. So if someone invades Britain, you want to automatically revert to nuclear warfare? What happens if they are fighting a conventional war but are a nuclear power?
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6690

Vilham wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

Vilham wrote:

WTF does a country need an army for, occupation that's what. UK has nukes if someone gets past our navy (3rd largest in the world) and air force, NO ONE is going to invade us.
HuH?  You suggest nuking your own contry should your navy fail?  GREAT PLAN! /sarcasm

As the last 70 years have demonstrated, nuclear weaponry does not negate the need for conventional forces.  If you fail to understand this, you really need to read some history.
Indeed. That's so true.  /sarcasm

That's why since the countries that own nukes have had them, none of them have been invaded.

I believe the phrase is /fail

They are called a deterrent.
They are a deterrent, but only so the other guy doesnt nuke you. It doesnt stop a convetional war from breaking out. If the Russians had come rolling through the Fulda Gap in 1988, would you have immediately wanted the release of nuclear weapons? What if the Russians werent and showed no signs of using nuclear weapons?

Last edited by Commie Killer (2009-01-25 19:27:31)

mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6614|South Jersey
Shhh, he didn't think that far ahead. Nobody tell him. Survival of the fittest, gentlemen.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6409|eXtreme to the maX
Nuclear weapons don't seem to have worked to deter all the wars we've fought in the last sixty years, pretty sure we still need an army.
Fuck Israel
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7070|UK

Commie Killer wrote:

Vilham wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:


HuH?  You suggest nuking your own contry should your navy fail?  GREAT PLAN! /sarcasm

As the last 70 years have demonstrated, nuclear weaponry does not negate the need for conventional forces.  If you fail to understand this, you really need to read some history.
Indeed. That's so true.  /sarcasm

That's why since the countries that own nukes have had them, none of them have been invaded.

I believe the phrase is /fail

They are called a deterrent.
They are a deterrent, but only so the other guy doesnt nuke you. It doesnt stop a convetional war from breaking out. If the Russians had come rolling through the Fulda Gap in 1988, would you have immediately wanted the release of nuclear weapons? What if the Russians werent and showed no signs of using nuclear weapons?
That's why since the countries that own nukes have had them, none of them have been invaded.

Yet again... There is absolutely ZERO evidence to back up your point because this point you claim to have has NEVER happened, there is evidence to back up mine. The cold war completely supports my point, both sides really wanted to attack the other, but the threat of nuclear was so strong neither side ever attacked each other, even when there were troops read to invade the leaders were like, "wait we can't do this its suicide" and instead went through diplomatic solutions.

And as to your first post, hence why I support naval and air forces, just how is the UK going to be invaded with the worlds 3rd strongest navy and one of the worlds most powerful air forces'. You so called army boffs seem to actually know nothing about things like logistics and deployment. You think for a second if the US and UK didn't have a land route into Iraq they would have invaded... lulz

Dilbert_X wrote:

Nuclear weapons don't seem to have worked to deter all the wars we've fought in the last sixty years, pretty sure we still need an army.
That's why since the countries that own nukes have had them, none of them have been invaded right?
Surgeons
U shud proabbly f off u fat prik
+3,097|6793|Gogledd Cymru

Vilham wrote:

You so called army boffs seem to actually know nothing about things like logistics and deployment.
Yet an undergrad student knows soooooooo much more?

Haha.
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6526|Escea

A ground army can also be used in terms of crisis. Mass riots, disasters and homeborne attacks.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7070|UK

M.O.A.B wrote:

A ground army can also be used in terms of crisis. Mass riots, disasters and homeborne attacks.
That is the one case in which I agree. But does that require 150,000 of them?

The Sheriff wrote:

Vilham wrote:

You so called army boffs seem to actually know nothing about things like logistics and deployment.
Yet an undergrad student knows soooooooo much more?

Haha.
Well I seem to know more than them. Ive studied war, they just like it, but don't seem to actually know anything about it.

Last edited by Vilham (2009-01-26 07:20:58)

Surgeons
U shud proabbly f off u fat prik
+3,097|6793|Gogledd Cymru

150K?

I thought there was around 105K troops and the rest were Gurkha's and Twats Army.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7070|UK
Including reservists/TA I believe there are 150k. Even if you count them out, do we need 105k soldiers for civilian problems like riots?

Last edited by Vilham (2009-01-26 07:22:43)

M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6526|Escea

Vilham wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

A ground army can also be used in terms of crisis. Mass riots, disasters and homeborne attacks.
That is the one case in which I agree. But does that require 150,000 of them?

The Sheriff wrote:

Vilham wrote:

You so called army boffs seem to actually know nothing about things like logistics and deployment.
Yet an undergrad student knows soooooooo much more?

Haha.
Well I seem to know more than them. Ive studied war, they just like it, but don't seem to actually know anything about it.
Considering our population is roughly 60 million, 150k is nothing.
Surgeons
U shud proabbly f off u fat prik
+3,097|6793|Gogledd Cymru

I don't know, however the smart men in charge of the Army deem it necessary to have a conventional force, the threats to our country/pros of having a conventional army outweigh the cons of "wasting" money on them.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7070|UK
Sheriff you gotta remember that is there job, to make the military as strong as possible. If it was their choice they would spend 100% GDP on the military. Does that make it a good decision?
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6526|Escea

The Sheriff wrote:

I don't know, however the smart men in charge of the Army deem it necessary to have a conventional force, the threats to our country/pros of having a conventional army outweigh the cons of "wasting" money on them.
Imo not enough money is spent on the ground forces. Their equipment often seems to be old and in pretty bad shape in comparison with other NATO armies.
Surgeons
U shud proabbly f off u fat prik
+3,097|6793|Gogledd Cymru

I'll rephrase then.

Wiser men than you and I deem it necessary to have a conventional force, the threats to our country/pros of having a conventional army outweigh the cons of "wasting" money on them.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7070|UK
lol, im not saying get rid of the army, im saying downsize it once we are out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Less but better trained and equipped soldiers with a larger navy would benefit our defence far more. It's better to stop any kind of ground based invasion ever happening than stopping it once its has landed.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum
150k used on home soil during crisis (nuclear war, mass epidemic, martial law) is literally a drop in the ocean. Just think how many soldiers would be needed to patrol Greater Manchester alone.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|6526|Escea

^ Indeed
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7070|UK
That's why expanding reservists in case of things such is that is more efficient. There needs to be some plan in place for all eventualities but you need to consider how often something like that is going to happen. Not often enough to need all of those soldiers employed 24/7.
mcjagdflieger
Champion of Dueling Rectums
+26|6614|South Jersey

Vilham wrote:

Sheriff you gotta remember that is there job, to make the military as strong as possible. If it was their choice they would spend 100% GDP on the military. Does that make it a good decision?
Oh ye of little faith, if you think your military leaders would spend 100% of your GDP given the opportunity, there is not much hope for you. Tis quite a naive statement imo. You can't rely only on reservists for ground forces. A trained soldier just that, a trained soldier. It is his job, his duty. Just because the army is not fending off an invading force, doesn't mean you ship them home. They need to remain a current, capable force. You know what nevermind, if you don't understand the concept of an army, gahh fuck it.
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7070|UK

mcjagdflieger wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Sheriff you gotta remember that is there job, to make the military as strong as possible. If it was their choice they would spend 100% GDP on the military. Does that make it a good decision?
Oh ye of little faith, if you think your military leaders would spend 100% of your GDP given the opportunity, there is not much hope for you. Tis quite a naive statement imo. You can't rely only on reservists for ground forces. A trained soldier just that, a trained soldier. It is his job, his duty. Just because the army is not fending off an invading force, doesn't mean you ship them home. They need to remain a current, capable force. You know what nevermind, if you don't understand the concept of an army, gahh fuck it.
indeed your country's military is a great country to take lessons off, the only imperialistic nation in the 21st century. lulz
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6690

Vilham wrote:

mcjagdflieger wrote:

Vilham wrote:

Sheriff you gotta remember that is there job, to make the military as strong as possible. If it was their choice they would spend 100% GDP on the military. Does that make it a good decision?
Oh ye of little faith, if you think your military leaders would spend 100% of your GDP given the opportunity, there is not much hope for you. Tis quite a naive statement imo. You can't rely only on reservists for ground forces. A trained soldier just that, a trained soldier. It is his job, his duty. Just because the army is not fending off an invading force, doesn't mean you ship them home. They need to remain a current, capable force. You know what nevermind, if you don't understand the concept of an army, gahh fuck it.
indeed your country's military is a great country to take lessons off, the only imperialistic nation in the 21st century. lulz
Is that what this is all about lol.
Shocking
sorry you feel that way
+333|6303|...
You anti military / army people live in a world of unicorns and flying ponies - learn that in life not everyone will agree with you and that SOME DAY someone will punch you in the face. And, if I'm not mistaken, all military personell in almost any western country are volunteers. And I like how someone discarded the young'uns who enter the military as "untalented annoying blokes". I bet you sure talked / had contact with alot of them.









WE HAVEN'T HAD A _FUCKING MAJOR_ WAR IN THE LAST 60 YEARS, DISREGARD THAT ONE (OR MORE) HAPPENED EVERY CENTURY IT WILL NOT HAPPEN AGAIN, NUH UH, BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS NUKES, NOBODY WILL ATTACK EACHOTHER AND SO IT'S GOOD TO BE UNPREPARED FOR ANYTHING, WHY NEED A LAND ARMY IF WE ATTACK ANOTHER COUNTRY WE'LL JUST BOMB THEM WITH PLANES THAT'LL MAKE THEM SURRENDER. OUR LAND ARMY HAS NO USE, NOT EVEN IN DEFENSE.

oh by the way Vilham, it's my honest opinion that you are so dumb it's hilarious.
inane little opines

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