Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

https://i40.tinypic.com/wiofgn.jpg

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blog … president/
I think Joe Biden was president for a few minutes there, today, if my jailhouse reading of constitutional law is correct. The constitution says that “Before he enter on the Execution of his Office,” the president-elect has to take an oath of office. The 20th Amendment says that “The terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January,” and that “If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified.”

Biden was sworn in before noon; Obama wasn’t. What are your memories of the brief Biden presidency? Yo Yo Ma played the whole time!

No, the oath is *not* legally meaningless, even if it is a ritual. Art. II Sec 1. Cl. 8 of the US Const. clearly states that “Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following oath. . . ” Therefore, from 12:00 noon until about 12:01 pm today, the President of the USA was Condoleeza Rice. From 12:01 until about 12:03 pm the President of the USA was Joe Biden. Interestingly, this means that, technically, Obama was *not* the first African-American President! (And yes, I actually am a constitutional law professor!).
More here.
Interesting.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6627|New Haven, CT
Biden took his oath before the music, didn't he?
CC-Marley
Member
+407|7132
Good for her! *feels proud*
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6456|what

Don't think as many will celebrate her achievement as the first African American president, but if true, she was also the first female president.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
destruktion_6143
Was ist Loos?
+154|6930|Canada
she wasnt the first african american prez to be VOTED in as prez
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Don't think as many will celebrate her achievement as the first African American president, but if true, she was also the first female president.
Obvious post is obvious.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6925|London, England
Black woman president, also republican. Harder to find than.....(you finish it, bf2s)
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7114|Nårvei

So Condi was the 44th, Biden is the 45th President and Obama the 46th?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6715|'Murka

Biden took his oath at approx 1145. He was not VP until 1200.

Obama was President at 1200, regardless of whether he took the oath by then. The term starts at 1200 that day. It doesn't say the oath must be taken for the term to start, only that the oath must be taken...at least that was as it was explained by the constitutional law people on TV.

And even if the whole oath thing is accurate, Biden would've been president from 1200-1203, as he had already taken the oath. Therefore, he was VP at 1200, which means he would've been president in the absence of the elected president (Obama) at the start of the term at 1200. The blogger put in a 1 min delay between the end of the previous and the start of the current administration. No such delay exists. At 11:59:59, Bush was President. At 12:00:00, Obama (or Biden, if you believe the blogger) was. I think that's why they have the VP take the oath several minutes before noon...just in case something happens to the elected POTUS prior to 12:00, there won't be a lapse in coverage.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6953

I get the Biden thing, but why would Condi be President? I missed that part of the ceremony, so I don't know what role she played.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6841|Long Island, New York
Everything's a sham! Life is meaningless now!

/buddwyer
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

From the link some people were obviously too lazy to click on.

Ken wrote me to elaborate, saying he’d posted this on a constitutional law message board (I’ll bet those are SIZZLING right now!)

    (1) The 20th Amendment provides that “[t]he terms of the President and Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January. . . . ”

    (2) Art II., Sec. 1 Cl. 8 provides that “[b]efore he enter on the Execution of his Office, [The President] shall take the following oath. . . ”

    (3) President Obama did not take the Oath of Office until about 12:03 pm today, after Vice President Biden took it at about 12:01 p.m. (Yo Yo Ma and Itzhak Perlman were still fiddling at noon).

    (4) Therefore, there was a brief window (just after noon) when George Bush and Dick Cheney were no longer President and Vice President, but Barack Obama and Joe Biden also were not yet qualified to enter on the Execution of their offices.

    (5) The Presidential Succession Act, 3 U.S.C. sec. 19(a)(1), provides: “If, by reason of . . . failure to qualify, there is neither a President nor Vice President to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President, then the Speaker of the House of Representatives shall, upon his resignation as Speaker and as Representative in Congress, act as President.” Section 19(b) states that the President Pro Tempore of the Senate shall act as President (under the same terms and conditions) if the Speaker of the House fails to qualify.

    (6) Neither Nancy Pelosi nor Robert Byrd actually resigned their seats in the Congress. Thus, neither of them qualified to become Acting President under the Presidential Succession Act. Plus, interbranch appointments might be unconstitutional anyhow. See Akhil Reed Amar and Vikram David Amar, Is the Presidential Succession Law Constitutional?, 48 Stan. L. Rev. 113 (1995); but see Howard Wasserman, Structural Principles and Presidential Succession, 90 Ky. L.J. 345 (2002).

    (7) Section 19(d)(1) of the Presidential Succession Act provides: “If, by reason of . . . failure to qualify, there is no President pro tempore to act as President under subsection (b) of this section, then the officer of the United States who is highest on the following list, and who is not under disability to discharge the powers and duties of the office of President shall act as President: Secretary of State . . . ”

    (8) Notably, Section 19(d)(1) does not condition the Secretary of State’s assumption of the powers and duties of the office of President on resignation of her current office, nor does elevation of the Secretary of State raise any constitutional issue of interbranch appointment.

    (9) The term of office of the Secretary of State does not automatically terminate at noon on the 20th day of January.

    (10) On January 20, 2009, Condoleeza Rice was (and is) still the Secretary of State.

    (11) Accordingly, from 12:00 noon until 12:01 p.m. (when Vice President Biden took the oath of office and became Vice President), Condoleeza Rice was momentarily the Acting President of the United States, our first African-American President.

    I suppose the obvious counterargument is that Secretary Rice *also* never took the Oath prescribed in Art. II, Sec. 1, cl. 8, and thus was no more qualified than Barack Obama or Joe Biden to act as President at 12:00 noon. But if Secretary Rice was not President from noon to 12:01, then who was?
^


    –Ken Katkin
    Professor of Law
    Salmon P. Chase College of Law
    556 Nunn Hall
    Northern Kentucky University
    Highland Heights, KY 41099
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6841|Long Island, New York
I suppose the obvious counterargument is that Secretary Rice *also* never took the Oath prescribed in Art. II, Sec. 1, cl. 8, and thus was no more qualified than Barack Obama or Joe Biden to act as President at 12:00 noon. But if Secretary Rice was not President from noon to 12:01, then who was?
That's what I was thinking...if she didn't take the Oath either, what makes her the President over the electee? I know the order of succession and all of that, but still..

Wouldn't it simply be that NOBODY was President at the time? I mean, what happened when Kennedy was assassinated? LBJ took the Oath of Office very, very quickly after, no?

It's all very confusing, yet at the same time a bit semantic. Interesting though, to say the least.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

^^ Yes it would. I was going to put spoiler tags in the OP.

LBJ took the oath on a plane using a catholic missile (not a bible).


Side notes:  Saying "so help me god" and using a bible are personal choices and are not required. It is customary to do so, and every President has done it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,984|6936|949

Cool story, br0.  Any other jaw-droppers?

Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2009-01-26 12:04:20)

Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6925|London, England

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Cool story, br0.  Any other jaw-droppers?
Well yes I do Kent

f the notorious historian William Estabrook Chancellor was right, we already did. In the early 1920s, Chancellor helped assemble a controversial biographical portrait accusing President Warren Harding of covering up his family’s “colored” past. According to the family tree Chancellor created, Harding was actually the great-grandson of a black woman. Under the one-drop rule of American race relations, Chancellor claimed, the country had inadvertently elected its “first Negro president.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/06/magaz … =permalink

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard