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2009-01-22 14:01:41
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

Spearhead wrote:

In Europe, it seems 3/4's of the population can live just fine without owning a car (whether its because of all the freakin bread shops, bicycles, or socialist public transport, and everyone lives in fairly cramped conditions). 

In the USA its not that simple.  Land far away from urban centers = cheap, which then ='s half the country living in suburban sprawl where it takes you at least a half hour to get to the nearest gas station on foot.

just sayin... for all the euro's.  not commenting on gas tax tho.  just pointing out the differences.
True, but i've heard your public transport isn't exactly much worth speaking about. So tax could go back into that?
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
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2009-01-22 14:07:58
Brasso
member
+1,549|6934

FatherTed wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

In Europe, it seems 3/4's of the population can live just fine without owning a car (whether its because of all the freakin bread shops, bicycles, or socialist public transport, and everyone lives in fairly cramped conditions). 

In the USA its not that simple.  Land far away from urban centers = cheap, which then ='s half the country living in suburban sprawl where it takes you at least a half hour to get to the nearest gas station on foot.

just sayin... for all the euro's.  not commenting on gas tax tho.  just pointing out the differences.
True, but i've heard your public transport isn't exactly much worth speaking about. So tax could go back into that?
I live in a pretty unpopulated part of the nation.  My town population is around 8,000+.  But as far as I've seen, public transportation in major cities like New York, Boston, and D.C. is pretty good.  It's just like Spearhead said though: most of us live out in the boonies rather than in the cities.
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
2009-01-22 14:10:25
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

haffeysucks wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

In Europe, it seems 3/4's of the population can live just fine without owning a car (whether its because of all the freakin bread shops, bicycles, or socialist public transport, and everyone lives in fairly cramped conditions). 

In the USA its not that simple.  Land far away from urban centers = cheap, which then ='s half the country living in suburban sprawl where it takes you at least a half hour to get to the nearest gas station on foot.

just sayin... for all the euro's.  not commenting on gas tax tho.  just pointing out the differences.
True, but i've heard your public transport isn't exactly much worth speaking about. So tax could go back into that?
I live in a pretty unpopulated part of the nation.  My town population is around 8,000+.  But as far as I've seen, public transportation in major cities like New York, Boston, and D.C. is pretty good.  It's just like Spearhead said though: most of us live out in the boonies rather than in the cities.
Oh ja, i've first hand at your city transport, and that really is impressive!
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-01-22 14:11:37
Brasso
member
+1,549|6934

FatherTed wrote:

haffeysucks wrote:

FatherTed wrote:


True, but i've heard your public transport isn't exactly much worth speaking about. So tax could go back into that?
I live in a pretty unpopulated part of the nation.  My town population is around 8,000+.  But as far as I've seen, public transportation in major cities like New York, Boston, and D.C. is pretty good.  It's just like Spearhead said though: most of us live out in the boonies rather than in the cities.
Oh ja, i've first hand at your city transport, and that really is impressive!
it's nothing compared to europe, but it gets the job done.  putting gas tax money into that won't help.
"people in ny have a general idea of how to drive. one of the pedals goes forward the other one prevents you from dying"
2009-01-22 14:13:01
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

haffeysucks wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

haffeysucks wrote:


I live in a pretty unpopulated part of the nation.  My town population is around 8,000+.  But as far as I've seen, public transportation in major cities like New York, Boston, and D.C. is pretty good.  It's just like Spearhead said though: most of us live out in the boonies rather than in the cities.
Oh ja, i've first hand at your city transport, and that really is impressive!
it's nothing compared to europe, but it gets the job done.  putting gas tax money into that won't help.
i duno, NY and SF managed it pretty well. The only thing you don't seem to do on any big scale are buses, not coaches but hop on/off buses.
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2009-01-22 14:17:51
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6993|Tampa Bay Florida
The bottomline is the people in the suburbs (like me).  It would take me probably at least 3 hours to reach downtown on foot.  And I live within city limits.  Taking the bus would take at least an hour.   (I live in the second largest metro-area in Florida)

I have been to Europe and its really not the same.. sure some areas are similar but not the majority. you guys have been living on a fairly small continent in cramped conditions since the middle ages.  The USA just spread out like butter on a slice of bread all over most of North America.

Last edited by Spearhead (2009-01-22 14:18:49)

2009-01-22 14:19:36
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

Spearhead wrote:

The bottomline is the people in the suburbs (like me).  It would take me probably at least 3 hours to reach downtown on foot.  And I live within city limits.  Taking the bus would take at least an hour.   (I live in the second largest metro-area in Florida)

I have been to Europe and its really not the same.. sure some areas are similar but not the majority. you guys have been living on a fairly small continent in cramped conditions since the middle ages.  The USA just spread out like butter on a slice of bread all over most of North America.
Hmm, back home it would take me an hour on the bus to the city, or 35mins on a train.

Out of interest (off t) where in Europe did you go?
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
2009-01-22 14:25:08
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6993|Tampa Bay Florida
Paris, London, Cologne, Munich to name the big cities and a shitload of towns in between all of them.  (The Benelux countries too)
2009-01-22 14:30:42
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

Spearhead wrote:

Paris, London, Cologne, Munich to name the big cities and a shitload of towns in between all of them.  (The Benelux countries too)
Koeln and Muenchen are lovely cities! Paris is overrated, you have to go the backstreets to find traditional france. London is okish, toooooo many tourist though, and everything costs a ton! Berlin, Prague, Barcelona, Athens and Moscow are the other ones i recommend you try and get to
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2009-01-22 14:35:11
Jenspm
penis
+1,716|7036|St. Andrews / Oslo

The petrol tax in norway is around 65%


Which means we pay roughly $8 pr gallon.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/26774/flickricon.png https://twitter.com/phoenix/favicon.ico
2009-01-22 14:42:11
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina
Raising taxes on gas only accomplishes one thing -- a rising cost of living.

I don't think this is a good idea at all, especially given our current economic situation.
2009-01-22 16:57:29
The#1Spot
Member
+105|6843|byah
We should eliminate a tax in gas all together and tax the size of the engine, the class of vehicle and the weight. This would have those 3 ton waste of material with a soccer mom using her cell phone or the hummer guys use for compensation as they have an inverted penis. An increase in sales tax on gas would have a neutral effect and possible a negative effect. Another thing eliminate the tax on diesel all together.
2009-01-22 16:59:33
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

The#1Spot wrote:

We should eliminate a tax in gas all together and tax the size of the engine, the class of vehicle and the weight. This would have those 3 ton waste of material with a soccer mom using her cell phone or the hummer guys use for compensation as they have an inverted penis. An increase in sales tax on gas would have a neutral effect and possible a negative effect. Another thing eliminate the tax on diesel all together.
it would take ages to get your car market to the state and variety we have over here. Short(ish) term fix would be tax on fuel.

And face it, Ford/GM etc don't give a damn about making economical cars (for the most part) when petrol is so incredibly cheap over there!
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2009-01-22 17:00:39
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7069|Cambridge (UK)
Just one darn second here...

Petrol/Gas is NOT taxed in the US?
2009-01-22 17:01:58
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Just one darn second here...

Petrol/Gas is NOT taxed in the US?
mental isn't it
Small hourglass island
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Use an umbrella
2009-01-22 17:02:52
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7069|Cambridge (UK)

FatherTed wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Just one darn second here...

Petrol/Gas is NOT taxed in the US?
mental isn't it
Do they live on the same planet as us?
2009-01-22 17:15:41
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Just one darn second here...

Petrol/Gas is NOT taxed in the US?
Uh... yeah. It is.  It's done by the state governments.   Just about every state taxes gas here.  We just tax it far less than most other countries.

Correction:  The feds tax it too.

Last edited by Turquoise (2009-01-22 17:16:37)

2009-01-22 23:08:16
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6409|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:

I don't see how those measures would drop the amount of money going back to countries like Saudi Arabia and such.
Simple, cost to the customer goes up, demand goes down -> oil barrel price goes down, sales volume goes down.

Turqoise wrote:

Raising taxes on gas only accomplishes one thing -- a rising cost of living.
Not necessarily, the money raised can be used to cut tax elsewhere -> No net increase in cost of living, people are just discouraged from using so much petrol.

Spearhead wrote:

In the USA its not that simple.  Land far away from urban centers = cheap, which then ='s half the country living in suburban sprawl where it takes you at least a half hour to get to the nearest gas station on foot.
You can start dealing with it now or wait until its actually run out, up to you.
Lifestyle changes are going to be needed, not so much of a problem for Europe, a bit more so for the US

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-22 23:10:00)

Fuck Israel
2009-01-22 23:09:27
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6409|eXtreme to the maX

The#1Spot wrote:

We should eliminate a tax in gas all together and tax the size of the engine, the class of vehicle and the weight. This would have those 3 ton waste of material with a soccer mom using her cell phone or the hummer guys use for compensation as they have an inverted penis. An increase in sales tax on gas would have a neutral effect and possible a negative effect. Another thing eliminate the tax on diesel all together.
What does that achieve exactly?
Soccer moms just buy diesel SUVs.
Fuck Israel
2009-01-23 03:39:37
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6715|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

I don't see how those measures would drop the amount of money going back to countries like Saudi Arabia and such.
Simple, cost to the customer goes up, demand goes down -> oil barrel price goes down, sales volume goes down.
What I was getting at is that most of our oil comes from elsewhere (Canada and Mexico, primarily). Keeping in mind that there will still be requirements for heating oil, power generation (still some oil plants here), lubricants (for motors and such, you filthy perv), etc.

GM et al have realized they can't continue without pumping out fuel-efficient/alternative fuel vehicles. It will take at least 10 years after they are readily available before the majority of vehicles here are switched over, though.

And your stereotyping of soccer moms is flawed. They buy minivans.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2009-01-23 04:19:03
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6409|eXtreme to the maX
Your oil is imported, it would make sense to cut imports.
And if the price to the customer drops GM won't bother starting work on alternatives.
You're right, they need to be available in volume NOW for the fleet to be changed over in a decade.
I didn't stereotype soccer moms, that was The#1Spot. (They buy SUVs here BTW)
Fuck Israel

 

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