Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6852|San Diego, CA, USA
I was reading this article:

Fuel from Coal-Eating Microbes: A process for converting coal into natural gas could help reduce emissions.
http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/21932/?a=f

And thought what kind of life would we manufacture in 50 years, in 100 years, in 200 years to do our bidding.  I mean if we make a lifeform from the basic building blocks of life what are we?  Should we?  Will we?
Wreckognize
Member
+294|6789
This isn't exactly human cloning, I don't really think of this as life.  Calling this life is akin to saying eating vegetables is murder.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6841|Long Island, New York
Should we? Yes. Will we? Probably not.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6457|what

Imagine how good the NFL would be if all the players were bio-engineered to be super strong with incredible reflexes. Sure, you can't make a football player any smarter, even with advanced medicine, but it would improve the quality of game.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6841|Long Island, New York

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Imagine how good the NFL would be if all the players were bio-engineered to be super strong with incredible reflexes. Sure, you can't make a football player any smarter, even with advanced medicine, but it would improve the quality of game.
They have that.

It's called steroids.

Makes yo balls smallah and makes you angry.
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6751|Chicago, IL
yes, bioenginnering is really little more than a shortcut, humans have been tampering with genetics for millenia, we turned grass into corn, wolves into poodles, and wild boars into soft little piggies.
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6797|N. Ireland
Deja Vu (in a sense), anyone?
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7040|Salt Lake City

S.Lythberg wrote:

yes, bioenginnering is really little more than a shortcut, humans have been tampering with genetics for millenia, we turned grass into corn, wolves into poodles, and wild boars into soft little piggies.
This is quite a bit different.  What you are talking about is cross-breeding of animals or cross-pollination of plants, but it must still be supported within natures current genetic format to work.  Yes you can cross-breed different species of dog to make another, but no matter how hard you try you can't breed a dog and cat together.

In this scenario we are genetically altering something that could not possibly exist in nature or through cross-breeding of any kind.
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6751|Chicago, IL

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

yes, bioenginnering is really little more than a shortcut, humans have been tampering with genetics for millenia, we turned grass into corn, wolves into poodles, and wild boars into soft little piggies.
This is quite a bit different.  What you are talking about is cross-breeding of animals or cross-pollination of plants, but it must still be supported within natures current genetic format to work.  Yes you can cross-breed different species of dog to make another, but no matter how hard you try you can't breed a dog and cat together.

In this scenario we are genetically altering something that could not possibly exist in nature or through cross-breeding of any kind.
It can exist, but it would take millenia of selective breeding to force the evolution, by taking the desired gene from anoter animal, the process can be dramatically shortened.  Of course, engineering a milticellular organism is infnitely more complex than creating a bacterium from the ground up, each gene in a bacteria serves a single purpose that can easily be coded by a computer, your body uses the same proteins for thousands of different things, and would be much harder to succesfully modify with non-human genes.
SEREVENT
MASSIVE G STAR
+605|6411|Birmingham, UK

Poseidon wrote:

Should we? No Will we? Possibly.
Fixed

We obviously shouldn't tamper with life, you just don't know what you'll do in the long run. And, what if something goes wrong?
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6751|Chicago, IL

SEREVENT wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Should we? No Will we? Possibly.
Fixed

We obviously shouldn't tamper with life, you just don't know what you'll do in the long run. And, what if something goes wrong?
goes wrong how?  there are already contagious and highly lethal microbes out there that were created without human help (and several that were).  I think the possible benefits far outweigh the known risks.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6925|London, England
I hate it when ethics and religion gets in the way of science and progress. Well for the most part, i'm all for it. But don't look at me, if we create some sort of super virus that kills everyone
SEREVENT
MASSIVE G STAR
+605|6411|Birmingham, UK

S.Lythberg wrote:

SEREVENT wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Should we? No Will we? Possibly.
Fixed

We obviously shouldn't tamper with life, you just don't know what you'll do in the long run. And, what if something goes wrong?
goes wrong how?  there are already contagious and highly lethal microbes out there that were created without human help (and several that were).  I think the possible benefits far outweigh the known risks.
I don't pretend to know what scientists do to make this sort of stuff, so i can't give you a list of reasons why this could go wrong.

However:

What if, whatever we make just goes out of control?

What about we make it more intelligent than it needs to be?
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6751|Chicago, IL

SEREVENT wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

SEREVENT wrote:


Fixed

We obviously shouldn't tamper with life, you just don't know what you'll do in the long run. And, what if something goes wrong?
goes wrong how?  there are already contagious and highly lethal microbes out there that were created without human help (and several that were).  I think the possible benefits far outweigh the known risks.
I don't pretend to know what scientists do to make this sort of stuff, so i can't give you a list of reasons why this could go wrong.

However:

What if, whatever we make just goes out of control?

What about we make it more intelligent than it needs to be?
I do know what scientists do to make this sort of stuff, a metal containing cleaving agent cuts the dna strand at the desired point, and a complete gene set is inserted in the hole, which reseals itself automatically do to inherent attractive proerties of the DNA molecules base pairs. assuming the new gene desont destabilize the biochemistry of the organism, the cell will begin manufacturing the new protein, along with its original functions.  The process is already used to create insulin for diabetics, and bacterial cells that consume crude oil for spill cleanup.

It is possible for scientists to make lethal organisms, but that has already been done intentionally.  Bacteria have already shown an ability to radically mutate themselves over just a few generations on their own, so the risks of genetic tampering are no grater than the risks inherent in microbial life in the wild.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6715|'Murka

SEREVENT wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Should we? No Will we? Possibly.
Fixed

We obviously shouldn't tamper with life, you just don't know what you'll do in the long run. And, what if something goes wrong?
https://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l62/theonlyPHELPS/manbearpig.jpg
tbh
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
SEREVENT
MASSIVE G STAR
+605|6411|Birmingham, UK

S.Lythberg wrote:

I do know what scientists do to make this sort of stuff, a metal containing cleaving agent cuts the dna strand at the desired point, and a complete gene set is inserted in the hole, which reseals itself automatically do to inherent attractive proerties of the DNA molecules base pairs. assuming the new gene desont destabilize the biochemistry of the organism, the cell will begin manufacturing the new protein, along with its original functions.  The process is already used to create insulin for diabetics, and bacterial cells that consume crude oil for spill cleanup.
I thought it was enzymes that cut the cells? Also, i thought insulin came from pigs, unless that was before.  Anyways, you obviously know more about science than me.
Bell
Frosties > Cornflakes
+362|6853|UK

Mekstizzle wrote:

I hate it when ethics and religion gets in the way of science and progress. Well for the most part, i'm all for it. But don't look at me, if we create some sort of super virus that kills everyone
Where is religion mentioned?
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6751|Chicago, IL

SEREVENT wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

I do know what scientists do to make this sort of stuff, a metal containing cleaving agent cuts the dna strand at the desired point, and a complete gene set is inserted in the hole, which reseals itself automatically do to inherent attractive proerties of the DNA molecules base pairs. assuming the new gene desont destabilize the biochemistry of the organism, the cell will begin manufacturing the new protein, along with its original functions.  The process is already used to create insulin for diabetics, and bacterial cells that consume crude oil for spill cleanup.
I thought it was enzymes that cut the cells? Also, i thought insulin came from pigs, unless that was before.  Anyways, you obviously know more about science than me.
Well, an enzyme can contain metals, there is a lot of research into this at the moment, since enzymes are a bitch to synthesize, and cost a small fortune to buy, so isolationg the active site and cutting out the rest saves millions.

I think the problem is that the media men responsible for reporting on these things and the religious groups opposing them don't have an advanced degree in biochemistry, and know next to nothing about whats going on.  The same thing happened for nuclear power (hence the aging 70's era plants we rely on, rather than state of the art fast breeders the euros use).  People simply don't know what is happening, and the unknown is scary.  Once you understand whats happening on the most basic level, it is really pretty mundane.  (On that note, two more years before I get my degree in chemical and biomolecular engineering , and then I can make me some cells)
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina

Poseidon wrote:

Should we? Yes. Will we? Probably not.
If the power is there, it will be done.

If America doesn't do cloning research, plenty of other nations still will, like Singapore.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,060|7075|PNW

~^^^^^ While the subject's been brought up, I'd like to say that certain breeds of dogs can't exist in nature.
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7070|Cambridge (UK)

Poseidon wrote:

Should we? Yes. Will we? Probably not.
Why that way round, Pos?

I woulda said:

Will we? Yes. Should we? Probably not.
Surgeons
U shud proabbly f off u fat prik
+3,097|6793|Gogledd Cymru

SEREVENT wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Should we? No Will we? Possibly.
Fixed

We obviously shouldn't tamper with life, you just don't know what you'll do in the long run. And, what if something goes wrong?
If that's the attitude everyone had to life we would still be up trees flinging our crap at each other.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6833|Global Command

Wreckognize wrote:

This isn't exactly human cloning, I don't really think of this as life.  Calling this life is akin to saying eating vegetables is murder.
Well...it is.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6589
Almost all of the plants and animals that humans farm have been significantly altered by our actions over the last 10,000 years.

Recent scientific developments have just made it faster and more controlled.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,060|7075|PNW

PureFodder wrote:

Almost all of the plants and animals that humans farm have been significantly altered by our actions over the last 10,000 years.

Recent scientific developments have just made it faster and more controlled.
And it's still like saying that you have control over the tides now that you have a bigger oar in your rowboat. You can have a great time of it or capsize yourself, but control over nature is ultimately illusory.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2009-01-12 08:54:20)

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