Bertster7 wrote:
FEOS wrote:
Ottomania wrote:
You act like investigating a top secret report. I wonder why you doubt so much to understand this evidence. Maybe you conditioned yourself to much to believe that Israel would never ever kill civilians intentionally.
Or perhaps you've conditioned yourself too much to believe that Israel
doesn't does kill civilians intentionally.
Huh?
Or what? Is that supposed to say does?
Huh? Oh...nevermind. Fixed.
Bertster7 wrote:
Have you read the posts? Fancy addressing anything there? Perhaps you have an answer for the parts where you repeatedly claim only one artillery shell was fired yet the article repeatedly says shells?
I have read the posts and the articles. They vary between one explosion and several. The facts are not at all clear and, unfortunately, the "reporters" involved (particularly from the Guardian) have chosen to inject their emotion into the story instead of reporting what is known and what is not known.
It says very clearly in the Guardian article that it appeared the shells fell short when targeting an area used by Hamas to launch rockets. That is not uncommon with artillery...it happens and that is far more plausible than "the IDF decided to kill a bunch of civilians on the beach".
Bertster7 wrote:
Do you have a solid explanation for the deaths of the (predominantly women and children) civilians that the IDF rounded up, forced into a house and then slaughtered? Why are the UN calling it a probable war crime if it's so nice and friendly and unintentional?
Where was that in the story Ottomania linked?
Oh, it's not? It's in whatever Dilbert linked to well after the post you're responding to? Hmmm...gee...I wonder why that wasn't included in my response. Damn lack of precognizance.
As to that particular incident...it sounds pretty sketchy. I'll have to read more about it and then reply...you know, instead of replying to something that wasn't even posted yet.
Bertster7 wrote:
But it's ok. They're just Arabs.
Nobody said it was OK or that Israel was justified if they intentionally target civilians. But it's OK when Hamas does it.
Nobody can prove a single instance where IDF policy (vice individuals who are then investigated and convicted) says it's OK to target civilians. Not a single one. But Hamas' stated policy is that civilians are legitimate targets. And none of you...NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU HAMAS APOLOGISTS...have a problem with that. Only when Israel kills civilians collaterally when attacking Hamas militant targets...which Hamas knowingly (and in violation of the GC and other international laws/agreements) puts right in the middle of civilian areas. Your double-standards are ridiculous and increasingly obvious. You don't scream for Hamas to be tried for war crimes...you never even use the term when referring to them. But they are doing things--intentionally and publicly stated--that are clear war crimes. Yet not a word from any of you or the UN about it.
That incident in Dilbert's post should be investigated. If it's found to be intentional, those responsible should be held accountable. How many of you Hamas apologists are willing to say the same thing for the group that
intentionally targets civilians and
embeds its military in civilian areas...both of which violate the GC and international laws of armed conflict, making Hamas' stated policies (and subsequent actions in line with those policies) war crimes?
I'm guessing none. I won't even speculate as to why there is this remarkable double standard. There's an easy answer, but I hope to God that's not it.
Ottomania wrote:
If Israel's real task was to finish Hamas, they would already have done. Do you give a chance to a terrorist organisation hiding in a city can be ended by air strikes?
Israel using Hamas as international cover while clearing the area from Arabs, to expand it's borders.
It's been said repeatedly that Israel could very easily resolve the Hamas problem. But that would require Israel to attack without regard to civilian casualties in Gaza (since Hamas embeds themselves in the civilian areas). Israel isn't willing to do that. And how much would you scream about Israel taking that approach if you're already screaming about civilian casualties now...when Israel is showing extreme restraint in their targeting (by and large)?
Think about that for a second or two.
Don't confuse my lack of support for Hamas with a lack of support for the Palestinian people. Likewise, don't confuse my support of Israel with a lack of support for the Palestinian people. Israel is not attacking the Palestinian people...they are attacking Hamas. Hamas just puts the Palestinian people in between in the hopes they can use the public outcry in their favor. It's truly despicable. No different than when Saddam put human shields at his key installations back in the day. People decried that immediately...nobody says shit about Hamas doing it as a matter of policy.
