Braddock
Agitator
+916|6594|Éire
Today Michal Dell of Dell computers decided to end Irish production of its computers at its Limerick plant and export 1900 jobs to Poland where he can employ a workforce at a fraction of the price. This is just one example of the kind of thing happening all over the world in the current economic climate but it has its roots in a clever little concept dreamed up many years ago... globalisation.

Some time back a few people got together and decided that pesky cross-border restrictions and first world pay practices were choking the potential of the free market and so a plan was drawn up (and endorsed by the IMF) whereby countries seeking financial assistance had to fully embrace this new economic vision. For years 'the free world' has been reminded ad nauseam by the US of the evils of communism... or anything remotely resembling communism e.g. minimum wage laws or unions... and to be fair the EU has not needed its arm twisted in embracing many of the philosophies of this new world vision. Many people even sat back happily and rejoiced as foreign companies came in and brought short term wealth at the expense of any significant degree of control over one's own economic affairs.

Sadly now the economic shit has hit the fan and Western countries' economies are now sliding down the shitter faster than Usain Bolt doing the 100 metres and where once the last resort was to migrate and follow the work now one has to move to the second or third world and work for a pittance.

NOTE: At the risk of sounding like a communist I must point out that I believe in balance in an economic system, by that I mean I oppose all-out control of a market as much as I oppose all-out economic freedom with no checks and balances. Competition is an important factor that drives innovation and can not be ruled out of any effective, organic economic system but what we here in the West have done by embracing and pushing the globalistaion concept is we have lined the pockets of the elite few at the top while selling out our industries, resources and working class to the developing world (who themselves are being exploited when viewed in comparison to the amount of profit being taken by the elite few here in the West).

Last edited by Braddock (2009-01-08 05:21:23)

..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6953
Capitalism is, at times, an almighty bitch...

On the one had you have this:

The poor are being marginalized. Globalisation is a means for exclusion, deepening inequality and reinforced division of the world into core and periphery: it is a new form of Western imperialism which dominates and exploits through TNC capital and instrumental global governance such as the World Bank and IMF.

On the other you have this:

North-South differences are being eroded. Globalisation is a progressive force for creating global prosperity. Through free trade and capital mobility, globalisation is creating a global market civilisation in which prosperity, wealth, power and liberal democracy are being diffused around the globe.

Globalisation has increased world prosperity and organisational efforts to stabilise the world economy have significantly improved. By historical standards global poverty has fallen more in the last 50 years than in the past 500, and the welfare of people in almost all regions has improved significantly over the past few decades. Globalisation will bring about the end of the ‘Third World’.LEDC’s fall in their share of world trade can be attributed to the internal economic, social and political conditions in individual countries.

Imo, no matter how much misery globalization can cause it initiates more development in the third world than not allowing it.
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7114|Nårvei

Guess my current Dell screen is my last then ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
max
Vela Incident
+1,652|6871|NYC / Hamburg

I don't see the problem. Why should dell have to pay higher wages when it can get the work done somewhere else cheaper and more efficient?

A country can't be competitive in every sector of the global economy. If another country does the same thing better, you'll have to either move on to something else or improve the way you're doing it.
once upon a midnight dreary, while i pron surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot  xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, " give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404.
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6797|N. Ireland
1900 - is that going to be one of the biggest single UK (and Ireland..) company cuts (except our old friend Woolworths)?

Last edited by kylef (2009-01-08 07:31:45)

san4
The Mas
+311|6992|NYC, a place to live
I'm confused. Is creating jobs in Poland a bad thing?
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6797|N. Ireland

san4 wrote:

I'm confused. Is creating jobs in Poland a bad thing?
It's more ... strain:

1900 jobs lost = extra 1900 unemployed (less tax to government) = extra 1900 on benefits  until they get a job.
san4
The Mas
+311|6992|NYC, a place to live

kylef wrote:

san4 wrote:

I'm confused. Is creating jobs in Poland a bad thing?
It's more ... strain:

1900 jobs lost = extra 1900 unemployed (less tax to government) = extra 1900 on benefits  until they get a job.
Isn't it 1900 jobs gained in Poland? 1900 people off government benefits there?
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6797|N. Ireland

san4 wrote:

kylef wrote:

san4 wrote:

I'm confused. Is creating jobs in Poland a bad thing?
It's more ... strain:

1900 jobs lost = extra 1900 unemployed (less tax to government) = extra 1900 on benefits  until they get a job.
Isn't it 1900 jobs gained in Poland? 1900 people off government benefits there?
I think Ireland is more concerned with itself than Poland.
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6953

san4 wrote:

I'm confused. Is creating jobs in Poland a bad thing?
It's not necessarily a bad thing but major branding companies tend to take advantage of the cheap labour and lax regulatory laws. It often leads to the poor working conditions seen in places like India and China.
kylef
Gone
+1,352|6797|N. Ireland

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

san4 wrote:

I'm confused. Is creating jobs in Poland a bad thing?
It's not necessarily a bad thing but major branding companies tend to take advantage of the cheap labour and lax regulatory laws. It often leads to the poor working conditions seen in places like India and China.
With the way the Pound:Euro is at the minute Polacks are actually leaving the UK and going back to the land of ... pole because what they were earning, after currency exchange, was hardly much more than what they would at home.
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6859

san4 wrote:

Isn't it 1900 jobs gained in Poland? 1900 people off government benefits there?
Those 1900 jobs probably originally existed in USA. They then disappeared from the USA and moved to cheapo Ireland. They are now disappearing from Ireland and moving to cheapo Poland. In 10 years time they'll move from Poland to Mongolia. It is almost as effective at reducing richer nations to shadows of their former self than communism... In order for the US or Ireland to compete with the poor nations each would have to go through several years of economic deflation in order to make more competitive wages a possibility. It's a bad day when negative growth is required to eventually provide people with what would ultimately amount to bare subsistence jobs. Bring back protectionism - otherwise this globalisation racket is just a race to the bottom. From now one people won't be migrating to rich nations for work - they'll be migrating to poor ones!

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-01-08 10:14:44)

SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6791|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
This is a major problem in the US auto production, a lot of the cars and parts are now being made in Mexico and Brazil. But for that I blame the UAW.
They have strangled the manufactures into it, not everyone in the plant can be making $40hr.

This does suck for Ireland, but you also have to look at it from the businesses point of view, their sales have been dropping but their taxes are going up and on top of it you have unions screaming for higher wages to off set inflation. You really can't fault them for picking up shop and moving to greener pastures, the company I used to work for was on the verge of bk, they closed shop and started building everything in Mexico. Now they are actually doing ok.
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6953
Big cities have to start re-thinking some of their laws welcoming tax avoidance rather than tax evasion. This wouldn't strictly lead to protectionism as it would welcome other big spending companies to join in. If London can do it so should others.
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6487|Ireland
Who the fuck would want a computer built by a Pollock?
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina
There's only one way to properly adapt to globalization in the long run -- better educate your workforce.

Comparative advantage dictates that low skill labor always is most cost effective in poor countries.  First World citizens should be high skilled laborers, mostly so that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs to Third World people.

Since we don't properly educate enough of our workforce, we end up having to bailout industries here that probably shouldn't even be here anymore (like automakers).  About the only way most of these types of industries make it here is by setting up shop in the cheapest parts of the country and keeping out unions.
san4
The Mas
+311|6992|NYC, a place to live

Turquoise wrote:

There's only one way to properly adapt to globalization in the long run -- better educate your workforce.

Comparative advantage dictates that low skill labor always is most cost effective in poor countries.  First World citizens should be high skilled laborers, mostly so that they don't have to worry about losing their jobs to Third World people.

Since we don't properly educate enough of our workforce, we end up having to bailout industries here that probably shouldn't even be here anymore (like automakers).  About the only way most of these types of industries make it here is by setting up shop in the cheapest parts of the country and keeping out unions.
What he said.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Who the fuck would want a computer built by a Pollock?
would you want it built by one of us
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6715|'Murka

FatherTed wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Who the fuck would want a computer built by a Pollock?
would you want it built by one of us
No. Because everything would be on the wrong side of the computer.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/performaxmustanginterior.jpg
Fucking heresy, I say.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6925|London, England

FEOS wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Who the fuck would want a computer built by a Pollock?
would you want it built by one of us
No. Because everything would be on the wrong side of the computer.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/ … terior.jpg
Fucking heresy, I say.
Ah.....who would've thought you'd see a Mustang that actually looks normal on the inside
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6715|'Murka

Mekstizzle wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FatherTed wrote:


would you want it built by one of us
No. Because everything would be on the wrong side of the computer.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/ … terior.jpg
Fucking heresy, I say.
Ah.....who would've thought you'd see a Mustang that actually looks normal on the inside
Watch it, you limey bastard.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,984|6936|949

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

Capitalism is, at times, an almighty bitch...

On the one had you have this:

The poor are being marginalized. Globalisation is a means for exclusion, deepening inequality and reinforced division of the world into core and periphery: it is a new form of Western imperialism which dominates and exploits through TNC capital and instrumental global governance such as the World Bank and IMF.

On the other you have this:

North-South differences are being eroded. Globalisation is a progressive force for creating global prosperity. Through free trade and capital mobility, globalisation is creating a global market civilisation in which prosperity, wealth, power and liberal democracy are being diffused around the globe.

Globalisation has increased world prosperity and organisational efforts to stabilise the world economy have significantly improved. By historical standards global poverty has fallen more in the last 50 years than in the past 500, and the welfare of people in almost all regions has improved significantly over the past few decades. Globalisation will bring about the end of the ‘Third World’.LEDC’s fall in their share of world trade can be attributed to the internal economic, social and political conditions in individual countries.

Imo, no matter how much misery globalization can cause it initiates more development in the third world than not allowing it.
http://www.idebate.org/debatabase/topic … opicID=131
El Beardo
steel woolly mammoth
+150|6024|Gulf Coast

"They took our jobs!"
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6833|Global Command
There must be sane limits to capitalism.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6594|Éire

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Who the fuck would want a computer built by a Pollock?
I'd welcome one built by jackson Pollock, it would be worth a fortune... though I wouldn't want to do my tax returns on it.

san4 wrote:

Isn't it 1900 jobs gained in Poland? 1900 people off government benefits there?
As Cam has pointed out already, these jobs were probably based in America originally, then outsourced to Ireland at knockdown prices, now they are being outsourced to Poland at even lower knockdown prices, maybe in the future they'll be outsourced to Malaysia or Pakistan for rock bottom prices... all the while the people at the bottom doing the work get less and less just so as the guys at the top can continue to make more and more. TeddyJimmy argued that globalisation has steadily improved the rich/poor divide but i would argue that it is still shameless profiteering, only this time it's not being done along national lines but rather multinational (companies) lines.

Cam summed it up, globalization is nothing more than "a race to the bottom".

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