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2009-01-07 05:47:15
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6814|USA

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:


So it has been almost all over the planet lowing, the ME is not unique when it comes to killing Jews ... and religious conflicts are not limited to Jews or Muslims either ... religion equals conflict when the belief overlap territory ...
I live in the here and now, and here and now, the rest of the world pretty much grew up.
Then i understand how you don't understand the deep roots in this conflict, you have to study the past to understand the present and the future lowing ...
thanks for the lecture, now please deny or agree with what I have posted, so far all you offer is "well, they aren't the only ones that hate the Jews"

I understand that, they are however, the only ones threatening and action upon threats for the destruction of Israel
2009-01-07 05:48:33
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6812
I take two views on this war.

i.) We should not be overzealous with our hate for Israel considering they're merely defending themselves against repeated rocket attacks from Hamas that are deliberately targeting Jews. I can understand that their need to try and stop these actions but I do, however, disagree with the way they have done this. By equating the force displayed by Hamas would have been bad enough but with bombing missions and ground troops re-entering Gaza, Israel have gone too far. This in itself will re-introduce hatred from Palestinians who constantly need to find reasons to support the right wing parties who's objective is to wipe Israel off the planet. Similarly, it has given other Arab countries more reason to hate Jews because of the unfair battle that is now being fought with ground troops on Palestinian land.

ii.) I'm not the slightest bit anti-Semitic but I can, to a degree, understand why the Palestinians hate Israeli's so much. The amount of oppression that they have been subjected to through; occupation, road blocks, fortified walls, constant bombings throughout the years, force through tanks and troops,....bla bla, will understandably initiate some kind of right-wing hatred towards the Jews. I also find it quite demoralizing for the Palestinians that America, the "democratic superpower of the West" supports Israel, supplies them with funds to support their army yet and by doing so doesn't at all stand for democracy in the ME. It seems completely contradictory to me. I do obv, understand why America are such staunch supporters of Israel due to the massive Jewish population in America with money and power (which btw, helps support the stereotype) but how the hell is any settlement going to arise while this situation exists. Palestine aren't going to accept constantly being the underdog especially when they feel that the land was stolen from them.
2009-01-07 05:53:55
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6268|eXtreme to the maX

Lowing wrote:

I understand that, they are however, the only ones threatening and action upon threats for the destruction of Israel
Because to get their stolen country back Israel needs to be destroyed.

Its that simple lowing, they aren't rabid anti-semites wandering the world looking for jews to kill, they want their country back and if that means killing the people who stole it thats fine with them, same as you're comfortable with killing someone stealing your neighbours tv.

The fact that the people who stole their country are jews is no doubt irrelevant to them, they would fight them if they were christians, mormons or aliens from the planet zog.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2009-01-07 05:53:59
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6812

Lowing wrote:

Here we go again, lowing is a hater for pointing out the FACTS. the Arabs colaborated with Germany in exterminating the Jews all before Israel.
lol
2009-01-07 05:55:26
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6268|eXtreme to the maX

teddy..jimmy wrote:

Palestine aren't going to accept constantly being the underdog especially when they feel that the land was stolen from them.
The land WAS stolen from them.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-07 05:58:24)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2009-01-07 05:56:13
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6814|USA

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

I take two views on this war.

i.) We should not be overzealous with our hate for Israel considering they're merely defending themselves against repeated rocket attacks from Hamas that are deliberately targeting Jews. I can understand that their need to try and stop these actions but I do, however, disagree with the way they have done this. By equating the force displayed by Hamas would have been bad enough but with bombing missions and ground troops re-entering Gaza, Israel have gone too far. This in itself will re-introduce hatred from Palestinians who constantly need to find reasons to support the right wing parties who's objective is to wipe Israel off the planet. Similarly, it has given other Arab countries more reason to hate Jews because of the unfair battle that is now being fought with ground troops on Palestinian land.

ii.) I'm not the slightest bit anti-Semitic but I can, to a degree, understand why the Palestinians hate Israeli's so much. The amount of oppression that they have been subjected to through; occupation, road blocks, fortified walls, constant bombings throughout the years, force through tanks and troops,....bla bla, will understandably initiate some kind of right-wing hatred towards the Jews. I also find it quite demoralizing for the Palestinians that America, the "democratic superpower of the West" supports Israel, supplies them with funds to support their army yet and by doing so doesn't at all stand for democracy in the ME. It seems completely contradictory to me. I do obv, understand why America are such staunch supporters of Israel due to the massive Jewish population in America with money and power (which btw, helps support the stereotype) but how the hell is any settlement going to arise while this situation exists. Palestine aren't going to accept constantly being the underdog especially when they feel that the land was stolen from them.
So you understand that everyone hates, and wants to kill the Jews so they rocket them, and you further understand that any retaliation of those attacks by the Jews breeds hatred for them?

Yeah, actually I agree with your assessment, but am I the only one here that understands what kind of a no win situation this puts Israel in?

I guess you hit on the root reason as to why I sympathize with Israel.

Last edited by lowing (2009-01-07 05:59:27)

2009-01-07 05:57:18
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6812

Dilbert_X wrote:

teddy..jimmy wrote:

Palestine aren't going to accept constantly being the underdog especially when they feel that the land was stolen from them.
The land was stolen from them.
I'm just trying to be slightly objective. America and Israel would argue the opposite.
2009-01-07 06:04:36
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6812

lowing wrote:

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

I take two views on this war.

i.) We should not be overzealous with our hate for Israel considering they're merely defending themselves against repeated rocket attacks from Hamas that are deliberately targeting Jews. I can understand that their need to try and stop these actions but I do, however, disagree with the way they have done this. By equating the force displayed by Hamas would have been bad enough but with bombing missions and ground troops re-entering Gaza, Israel have gone too far. This in itself will re-introduce hatred from Palestinians who constantly need to find reasons to support the right wing parties who's objective is to wipe Israel off the planet. Similarly, it has given other Arab countries more reason to hate Jews because of the unfair battle that is now being fought with ground troops on Palestinian land.

ii.) I'm not the slightest bit anti-Semitic but I can, to a degree, understand why the Palestinians hate Israeli's so much. The amount of oppression that they have been subjected to through; occupation, road blocks, fortified walls, constant bombings throughout the years, force through tanks and troops,....bla bla, will understandably initiate some kind of right-wing hatred towards the Jews. I also find it quite demoralizing for the Palestinians that America, the "democratic superpower of the West" supports Israel, supplies them with funds to support their army yet and by doing so doesn't at all stand for democracy in the ME. It seems completely contradictory to me. I do obv, understand why America are such staunch supporters of Israel due to the massive Jewish population in America with money and power (which btw, helps support the stereotype) but how the hell is any settlement going to arise while this situation exists. Palestine aren't going to accept constantly being the underdog especially when they feel that the land was stolen from them.
So you understand that everyone hates, and wants to kill the Jews so they rocket them, and you further understand that any retaliation of those attacks by the Jews breeds hatred for them?

Yeah, actually I agree with your assessment, but am I the only one here that understands what kind of a no win situation this puts Israel in?
I understand that to a degree but at the same time you have to remember that the majority of people will support the underdog. From past events, some of the hate displayed by Arabs is, imo, fully justifiable. From the amount of repression that Palestinians have felt at the hands of Israel I'm not surprised. For example, take what happened yesterday where the Israeli army shot and killed over 20 people hiding out in UN run schools that had been turned into evacuation centres. Israel are far too trigger happy...it seems they don't give a shit whether they kill civilians or freedom fighters(I'm sorry I had to). Situations like this perfectly illustrate, in my mind, why there is so much hatred towards the Jews. It's not fully unjustifiable tbh. Stemming from this, any retaliation is usually 10 times harder than what the Palestinians dish out. Israel is considered a developed country more or less? yes. Do we expect this kind of retaliation from a developed country who should set an example rather than mercilessly killing civilians in chases of Hamas leaders? Fuck no. Again, this is where the hate stems from and if you can't see this then maybe you need to re-evaluate the facts.
2009-01-07 06:07:13
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6268|eXtreme to the maX
From what I can see here.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso … tihit.html
The mufti of Jerusalem simply didn't want Palestine taken over by the zionists.
The zionists had been agitating for Palestine to be given to them since 1919 at least, the Palestinians didn't want their country stolen from them, seems logical to ally themselves with the Germans.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni
Mohammad Amin al-Husayni (Arabic: محمد أمين الحسيني‎, properly transliterated al-Husseini,[1] 1895/1897 - July 4, 1974), a member of the al-Husayni clan of Jerusalem, was a Palestinian Arab nationalist and Muslim leader in the British Mandate of Palestine. From 1921 to 1948, he was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, and played a key role in opposition to Zionism.

As early as 1920, he was active in both opposing the British in order to secure the independence of Palestine as an Arab State and opposing Jewish immigration and the establishment of their National home in Palestine. His oppositional role peaked during the 1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine. In 1937, wanted by the British, he fled Palestine and took refuge successively in Lebanon, Iraq, Italy and finally Nazi Germany where he met Adolf Hitler in 1941. He asked Germany to oppose, as part of the Arab struggle for independence, the establishment of a Jewish national home in Palestine. During the 1948 Palestine War he represented the Arab Higher Committee and opposed both to the 1947 UN Partition Plan and to King Abdullah's ambitions for expanding Jordan by capturing Palestinian territory.

After the 1948 Palestine War and Palestinian exodus, his claims to leadership were devastated and, quickly sidelined successively by the Arab Nationalist Movement and the Palestine Liberation Organization, he lost most of his remaining political influence.[2] Al-Husayni died in Beirut, Lebanon in 1974.

Historians debate to what extent his fierce opposition to Zionism was grounded in nationalism or antisemitism or a combination of both.
So its not thousands of years of anti-semitism, just a reaction to the actions of the jews themselves in attempting to steal what belongs to someone else.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-07 06:10:58)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2009-01-07 06:07:20
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6608|The Land of Scott Walker
And what of Israeli reports that Hamas members were firing from that "evacuation center"?
2009-01-07 06:11:34
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6814|USA

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

lowing wrote:

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

I take two views on this war.

i.) We should not be overzealous with our hate for Israel considering they're merely defending themselves against repeated rocket attacks from Hamas that are deliberately targeting Jews. I can understand that their need to try and stop these actions but I do, however, disagree with the way they have done this. By equating the force displayed by Hamas would have been bad enough but with bombing missions and ground troops re-entering Gaza, Israel have gone too far. This in itself will re-introduce hatred from Palestinians who constantly need to find reasons to support the right wing parties who's objective is to wipe Israel off the planet. Similarly, it has given other Arab countries more reason to hate Jews because of the unfair battle that is now being fought with ground troops on Palestinian land.

ii.) I'm not the slightest bit anti-Semitic but I can, to a degree, understand why the Palestinians hate Israeli's so much. The amount of oppression that they have been subjected to through; occupation, road blocks, fortified walls, constant bombings throughout the years, force through tanks and troops,....bla bla, will understandably initiate some kind of right-wing hatred towards the Jews. I also find it quite demoralizing for the Palestinians that America, the "democratic superpower of the West" supports Israel, supplies them with funds to support their army yet and by doing so doesn't at all stand for democracy in the ME. It seems completely contradictory to me. I do obv, understand why America are such staunch supporters of Israel due to the massive Jewish population in America with money and power (which btw, helps support the stereotype) but how the hell is any settlement going to arise while this situation exists. Palestine aren't going to accept constantly being the underdog especially when they feel that the land was stolen from them.
So you understand that everyone hates, and wants to kill the Jews so they rocket them, and you further understand that any retaliation of those attacks by the Jews breeds hatred for them?

Yeah, actually I agree with your assessment, but am I the only one here that understands what kind of a no win situation this puts Israel in?
I understand that to a degree but at the same time you have to remember that the majority of people will support the underdog. From past events, some of the hate displayed by Arabs is, imo, fully justifiable. From the amount of repression that Palestinians have felt at the hands of Israel I'm not surprised. For example, take what happened yesterday where the Israeli army shot and killed over 20 people hiding out in UN run schools that had been turned into evacuation centres. Israel are far too trigger happy...it seems they don't give a shit whether they kill civilians or freedom fighters(I'm sorry I had to). Situations like this perfectly illustrate, in my mind, why there is so much hatred towards the Jews. It's not fully unjustifiable tbh. Stemming from this, any retaliation is usually 10 times harder than what the Palestinians dish out. Israel is considered a developed country more or less? yes. Do we expect this kind of retaliation from a developed country who should set an example rather than mercilessly killing civilians in chases of Hamas leaders? Fuck no. Again, this is where the hate stems from and if you can't see this then maybe you need to re-evaluate the facts.
Since the ME is comprised of 99.9% Arab and Islamic countries and .1% Israel. What I see is ANY land or existance by the Jews is too much. Hence no negotiation. THis hardly makes Israel the underdog as a nation seeking to merely exist.

As far as the retaliations go. I am wondering why Israel is the only country in history being condemned for trying to win a war it is engaged in.

No one before has ever been condemned for hitting back harder than they they were hit. Not sure, sounds like there is a lesson in there for those that want to start shit.
2009-01-07 06:12:09
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6268|eXtreme to the maX

stingray24 wrote:

And what of Israeli reports that Hamas members were firing from that "evacuation center"?
They'll say thay whether Hamas were there or not.
Seems to be IDF SOP to take out the UN.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2009-01-07 06:14:37
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6268|eXtreme to the maX

Lowing wrote:

No one before has ever been condemned for hitting back harder than they they were hit. Not sure, sounds like there is a lesson in there for those that want to start shit.
Its more complex than your simplistic one-sided view, its been tit-for-tat for 60 years, you can't argue its always the Palestinians provoking and Israel responding.
You can just as easily argue its Israel provoking and the Palestinians responding.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2009-01-07 06:16:42
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6814|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

Lowing wrote:

No one before has ever been condemned for hitting back harder than they they were hit. Not sure, sounds like there is a lesson in there for those that want to start shit.
Its more complex than your simplistic one-sided view, its been tit-for-tat for 60 years, you can't argue its always the Palestinians provoking and Israel responding.
You can just as easily argue its Israel provoking and the Palestinians responding.
No I can not, not when Israel represents so little land in the ME and it is too much according to the region. When has Israel launched attacks unprovoked
2009-01-07 06:18:57
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6814|USA

Stingray24 wrote:

And what of Israeli reports that Hamas members were firing from that "evacuation center"?
watched the news today and it was reported that the damn thing exploded when it was hit. Pretty much confirming it was more of a weapons storage facility as much as an "evacuation center"

Hamas would never do something  like that I am sure though
2009-01-07 06:20:36
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6814|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

stingray24 wrote:

And what of Israeli reports that Hamas members were firing from that "evacuation center"?
They'll say thay whether Hamas were there or not.
Seems to be IDF SOP to take out the UN.
Yeah since the last time Israel did it, the UN was observing  Israel movments and passing that inf oon to Hamas. But hey , I know the UN would never do something like that.
2009-01-07 06:21:44
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6608|The Land of Scott Walker

Dilbert_X wrote:

Lowing wrote:

No one before has ever been condemned for hitting back harder than they they were hit. Not sure, sounds like there is a lesson in there for those that want to start shit.
You can just as easily argue its Israel provoking and the Palestinians responding.
Not really.  Israel has consistently negotiated for peace, even to the point of giving up land which they now receive rocket fire from.  Hamas members have directly stated they view a cease fire as a re-arming period.  Hence the failure of this process and the need to wipe out Hamas.
2009-01-07 06:21:57
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6268|eXtreme to the maX

Lowing wrote:

No I can not, not when Israel represents so little land in the ME and it is too much according to the region.
Your little house is pretty small compared to America, I guess if someone pulled a gun on you and kicked you out you'd just go find somewhere else to live.

Lowing wrote:

When has Israel launched attacks unprovoked
When their country was created and they booted the Palestinians out at gunpoint, or killed them.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2009-01-07 06:22:03
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6812

Stingray24 wrote:

And what of Israeli reports that Hamas members were firing from that "evacuation center"?
Most armies would have the common sense to check before destroying every single civilian in sight.

Imagine if the Norwegian army had randomly splattered shells and bullets into a swedish hospital believed to house terrorists who want to destory Norway. That would just be rediculous. It's against the law ffs.

Since the ME is comprised of 99.9% Arab and Islamic countries and .1% Israel. What I see is ANY land or existance by the Jews is too much. Hence no negotiation. THis hardly makes Israel the underdog as a nation seeking to merely exist.
Israel have America on their side...my ass should they be considered the underdogs.

As far as the retaliations go. I am wondering why Israel is the only country in history being condemned for trying to win a war it is engaged in.
A war it is engaged in as a result of stealing land...not very justifiable at all.

One thing is for sure-this debate will forever remain tit for tat considering the entire history of the conflict is tit for tat.

Last edited by ..teddy..jimmy (2009-01-07 06:26:02)

2009-01-07 06:25:07
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6814|USA

Dilbert_X wrote:

Lowing wrote:

No I can not, not when Israel represents so little land in the ME and it is too much according to the region.
Your little house is pretty small compared to America, I guess if someone pulled a gun on you and kicked you out you'd just go find somewhere else to live.

Lowing wrote:

When has Israel launched attacks unprovoked
When their country was created and they booted the Palestinians out at gunpoint, or killed them.
Sorry, the Jews didn't pull a gun on anyone. The UN created Israel not the Jews. The UN also created a 2 state solution only problem is the no one else wanted it
2009-01-07 06:25:11
c14u53w172
Member
+31|6161|tomania
serious question:

how can these guys stand that near to the gaza strip and do not get shot at by a palestenian sniper?

https://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5863/01020139801200ug3.jpg
https://img356.imageshack.us/img356/01020139801200ug3.jpg/1/w750.png
2009-01-07 06:26:41
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6268|eXtreme to the maX

lowing wrote:

watched the news today and it was reported that the damn thing exploded when it was hit. Pretty much confirming it was more of a weapons storage facility as much as an "evacuation center"
Thats funny, not even Fox News are claiming that.
Please provide some evidence to back up your wild claims.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2009-01-07 06:27:12
..teddy..jimmy
Member
+1,393|6812

c14u53w172 wrote:

serious question:

how can these guys stand that near to the gaza strip and do not get shot at by a palestenian sniper?

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5863 … 200ug3.jpg
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/0102 … 1/w750.png
HAHAHAHAHA +1
2009-01-07 06:27:28
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6705|Texas - Bigger than France

c14u53w172 wrote:

serious question:

how can these guys stand that near to the gaza strip and do not get shot at by a palestenian sniper?

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/5863 … 200ug3.jpg
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/0102 … 1/w750.png
They are trying to hit them with rockets?

Better serious question: how in the hell do you remember your user name when logging in?
2009-01-07 06:28:10
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6814|USA

..teddy..jimmy wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

And what of Israeli reports that Hamas members were firing from that "evacuation center"?
Most armies would have the common sense to check before destroying every single civilian in sight.

Imagine if the Norwegian army had randomly splattered shells and bullets into a swedish hospital believed to house terrorists who want to destory Norway. That would just be rediculous. It's against the law ffs.

Since the ME is comprised of 99.9% Arab and Islamic countries and .1% Israel. What I see is ANY land or existance by the Jews is too much. Hence no negotiation. THis hardly makes Israel the underdog as a nation seeking to merely exist.
Israel have America on their side...my ass should they be considered the underdogs.

As far as the retaliations go. I am wondering why Israel is the only country in history being condemned for trying to win a war it is engaged in.
A war it is engaged in as a result of stealing land...not very justifiable at all.

One thing is for sure-this debate will forever remain tit for tat considering the entire history of the conflict is tit for tat.
The Jews stole nothing, we aretalking about post WW2, are you telling me the JEws had the power and strengh to wage war and kick anyone out of anything?

 

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