BF2S Forums War in Gaza Official Thread

FEOS wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that it is a generic Muslim thing to have a problem with Jews.

But we hear regularly 'All arabs hate the jews, we must defend Israel and kill the arabs blah blah blah' when its not true, they just object to Israel being planted in the middle of them.

FEOS wrote:

Who called anyone anti-semitic? Or were you speaking in "general public" terms, vice this thread?

Was speaking in general terms.

FEOS wrote:

As to the other persecutions you mention: I was talking specifically about the Muslim-Jewish issue. However, you can find many different groups throughout history (some still around, others not) that have experienced similar persecutions from some of those same groups.

Exactly, the jews are not a special case.
I think the Sunni deserve a homeland to compensate for all the persecution they have experience from the Shia, or maybe the Shia deserve a homeland for all the persecution they have suffered at the hands of the Sunni.
I vote we give them Arizonah and Utah, the jews can have Texas and we're done here.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-06 19:24:19)

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

I didn't mean to imply that it is a generic Muslim thing to have a problem with Jews.

But we hear regularly 'All arabs hate the jews, we must defend Israel and kill the arabs blah blah blah' when its not true, they just object to Israel being planted in the middle of them.

FEOS wrote:

Who called anyone anti-semitic? Or were you speaking in "general public" terms, vice this thread?

Was speaking in general terms.

FEOS wrote:

As to the other persecutions you mention: I was talking specifically about the Muslim-Jewish issue. However, you can find many different groups throughout history (some still around, others not) that have experienced similar persecutions from some of those same groups.

Exactly, the jews are not a special case.
I think the Sunni deserve a homeland to compensate for all the persecution they have experience from the Shia, or maybe the Shia deserve a homeland for all the persecution they have suffered at the hands of the Sunni.
I vote we give them Arizonah and Utah, the jews can have Texas and we're done here.

I do not recall anyone stating ( seriously) that we must kill all of the Arabs...The fact is, Israel does not want to kill anyone, they want to be left alone. It is the Arabs and Muslims that want to destroy Israel. In fact they wanted to kill the Jews before there even was an Israel. Israel is just the latest excuse to justify genocide.

TheAussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

In fact they wanted to kill the Jews before there even was an Israel.

Your thinking of the Germans. And even then it was only after Hitler came to power did the hate start.

Nope the Arabs and Muslims were all in favor of helping Germany to that end, and again, before Israel was even a nation

This is what kills me about all of you, you really believe that ISlam is a peace loving and tolerant religion and culture, and I have no idea how you can think that given their attitude toward the west, Jews and everything non-Islamic.

Last edited by lowing (2009-01-07 04:05:54)

Actually Dilbert no Arab likes any Jew ... no dispute really, but lowings statement is also wrong ... the conflict was not there before the founding of Israel ...

The east and west have been in conflict with eachother for thousands of years, Muslims vs Jews - Muslims vs Christians - Christians vs Jews - Muslims vs Muslims - Christians vs Christians  etc etc etc etc etc ...

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Actually Dilbert no Arab likes any Jew ... no dispute really, but lowings statement is also wrong ... the conflict was not there before the founding of Israel ...

The east and west have been in conflict with eachother for thousands of years, Muslims vs Jews - Muslims vs Christians - Christians vs Jews - Muslims vs Muslims - Christians vs Christians  etc etc etc etc etc ...

I think you contradicted yourself, you said I am wrong that the conflict was not there before Israel, then say they have hated each other for thousands of years. WHat did I miss.

Read between the lines lowing ... since 1947 it's been Muslims vs Jews ... but it has not always been so referring to other conflicts that have struck the area on and off for the last 2000 years but not all at the same time ...

lowing wrote:

Nope the Arabs and Muslims were all in favor of helping Germany to that end, and again, before Israel was even a nation

This is what kills me about all of you, you really believe that ISlam is a peace loving and tolerant religion and culture, and I have no idea how you can think that given their attitude toward the west, Jews and everything non-Islamic.

So much hate lowing, you gotta accept a neighbour as much as they have to accept you, ya know.

I suppose the Arabs and Muslims in favour of helping Germany so much is the reason that's where the Jews fled too. Or tried to at any rate. Most of the fleeing Jews who tried to get to Palestine were forced to go to Egypt instead by the British forces who didn't want German spies crossing into Palestine. WWI had Turkey on the side of the Axis. Late when they entered WWII it was with the allies. But I'll bet secretly they wanted to fight the Jews the whole time, hey Lowing?

ColCarnage wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

In fact they wanted to kill the Jews before there even was an Israel.

Your thinking of the Germans. And even then it was only after Hitler came to power did the hate start.

The hate was an ongoing thing and was almost ingrained into European culture at the time. If no one ,but Hitler hated the jews do you really think he would have gotten to power in the first place?

Not just Hitler, but it was Heinrich Himmler who started most of it. You do know that WWI veterans who were Jewish and fought for Germany had their status as German citizens revoked during the late 30's? They were war heroes until Hitler and Himmler spread their hate.

And they didn't come to power preaching anti-Jewish sentiment. That started up after they came to power.

That sums United Nations:

san4 wrote:

No. There was a 2000 year history before Hitler came to power, including expulsion of all Jews from England, France and Spain.

Was talking about the anti-semitism in Germany which didn't reach boiling point until the 1930's. Unless you consider the Roman held territory and the chance some of the Roman soldiers hated the Jews, I dunno.

lowing wrote:

Here we go again, lowing is a hater for pointing out the FACTS. the Arabs colaborated with Germany in exterminating the Jews all before Israel. O the excuse against hating the Jews being Israel is pretty much null and void, also the belief that the destruction of Israel will magically bring peace and harmony in the region and the world is also null and void.

What the hell, do you have any way to back up these so called facts of Arab collaboration?

And I certainly don't think or have ever stated that the destruction of Israel will bring peace, it is you who have said the destruction of the Middle East will bring about peace, though.

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Not just Hitler, but it was Heinrich Himmler who started most of it. You do know that WWI veterans who were Jewish and fought for Germany had their status as German citizens revoked during the late 30's? They were war heroes until Hitler and Himmler spread their hate.

And they didn't come to power preaching anti-Jewish sentiment. That started up after they came to power.

Wikipedia wrote:

From the early Middle Ages to the 18th century, the Jews in Germany were subject to many persecutions as well as brief times of tolerance. Though the 19th century began with a series of riots and pogroms against the Jews, emancipation followed in 1848, so that, by the early 20th century, the Jews of Germany were the most integrated in Europe.

Ya I used Wikipedia lol, but the point still stands antisemitism was not a new thing in Germany or Europe for that matter especially in Eastern Europe, where volunteers helped literary lined up to help the nazi's comment many atrocities.

Last edited by ColCarnage (2009-01-07 04:32:01)

TheAussieReaper wrote:

san4 wrote:

No. There was a 2000 year history before Hitler came to power, including expulsion of all Jews from England, France and Spain.

Was talking about the anti-semitism in Germany which didn't reach boiling point until the 1930's. Unless you consider the Roman held territory and the chance some of the Roman soldiers hated the Jews, I dunno.

lowing wrote:

Here we go again, lowing is a hater for pointing out the FACTS. the Arabs colaborated with Germany in exterminating the Jews all before Israel. O the excuse against hating the Jews being Israel is pretty much null and void, also the belief that the destruction of Israel will magically bring peace and harmony in the region and the world is also null and void.

What the hell, do you have any way to back up these so called facts of Arab collaboration?

And I certainly don't think or have ever stated that the destruction of Israel will bring peace, it is you who have said the destruction of the Middle East will bring about peace, though.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_during_ww2.php


yer right I do believe if the Arab and Islamic attitude toward the non-Islamic world did not exist, it would be a better place. Keeping in mind everyone else is trying to find a solution that benifts all, and the Arabs and Muslim solution is only the destruction of Israel and for some, the west

lowing wrote:

Here we go again, lowing is a hater for pointing out the FACTS. the Arabs collaborated with Germany in exterminating the Jews all before Israel. O the excuse against hating the Jews being Israel is pretty much null and void, also the belief that the destruction of Israel will magically bring peace and harmony in the region and the world is also null and void.

The Arabs? Does that cover every Arab on the planet? Small groups of Arabs & Christians worked with the Nazis
Here is a list of countries/areas where indigenous groups collaborated with the Germans to achieve the German  end. Most of the countries are Christan.

Albania
Belarus
Belgium
Bosnia
China
Croatia
Denmark
Estonia
Vichy France
Brittany
Greece
Hungary
India
Indonesia
Italy
Latvia
Lithuania
Netherlands
Norway
Palestine
Poland
Romania
Russia
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
Ukraine

Collaboration with the Nazis was not about wiping out the Jews. It was about land, alliances and how the chips would fall when the war ended.

The Zionists tried to collaborate:
"Jewish underground Zionist group Lehi, also known as the "Stern Gang" offered cooperation to the Nazis in sabotage, espionage and intelligence and up to wide military operations in the Middle East and in eastern Europe anywhere where they had Jewish cells in return for full recognition of an independent Jewish state in Palestine, an ability to emigrate to Palestine for all Jews, with no restriction of numbers.  This offer of collaboration was sent in 1941 to the German Naval attache in Ankara and forwarded through German embassy to Berlin but found no response from the Nazis."
from Wikipedia

So as you can see from above. Organisations & countries tried to align themselves with either side. Mostly for their own gain. Not to wipe out the Jews. The only ppl guilty of that are Germany and Austria. The IDF was formed from various terrorist organisations including Lehi. Seams they where willing to do anything back then too, to impose themselves on lands they had no right to.
Somehow justifying the savagery in Palestine over the actions of a small group of Arabs 60 years ago is retarded.

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Read between the lines lowing ... since 1947 it's been Muslims vs Jews ... but it has not always been so referring to other conflicts that have struck the area on and off for the last 2000 years but not all at the same time ...

Perhaps, but hating the Jews and killing the Jews, has been a common theme for the Arabs and Muslims throughout it all.

So it has been almost all over the planet lowing, the ME is not unique when it comes to killing Jews ... and religious conflicts are not limited to Jews or Muslims either ... religion equals conflict when the belief overlap territory ...

I live in the here and now, and here and now, the rest of the world pretty much grew up.

Lowing wrote:

Here we go again, lowing is a hater for pointing out the FACTS. the Arabs colaborated with Germany in exterminating the Jews all before Israel.

Lets see some evidence, no-one outside Germany knew about the extermination of the jews, how did anyone collaborate exactly?
In any case Palestine was under British control, as was much of the ME, were the British complicit in killing the jews eh lowing?

SAN4 wrote:

Still waiting for evidence of this

Its not too hard really, both articles from 2006

Hamas: We’ll recognize Israel within '67 borders

Faction's spokesman at Palestinian parliament voices pragmatic, surprising declarations during Ramallah conference; 'we, Hamas, are committed to calm up to this moment,' he says

The Hamas movement is ready to recognize agreements signed with Israel, and in fact recognize Israel, but only within the '67 borders, senior Hamas member Khaled Suleiman said Wednesday.

According to Suleiman, the movement will be ready to accept a Palestinian state inside the '67 borders and will not operate to thwart diplomatic negotiations held by Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/ … 68,00.html

Climbdown as Hamas agrees to Israeli state
· Negotiator says group recognises right to exist
· Hope for end to crippling sanctions on Palestinians

Hamas has made a major political climbdown by agreeing to sections of a document that recognise Israel's right to exist and a negotiated two-state solution, according to Palestinian leaders.
In a bitter struggle for power, Hamas is bowing to an ultimatum from the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, to endorse the document drawn up by Palestinian security prisoners in Israeli jails, or face a national referendum on the issue that could see the Islamist group stripped of power if it loses.

Yesterday, a women was killed and six children injured in an Israeli missile attack in Gaza. On Tuesday, an Israeli air force rocket killed three children, two boys aged five and 16, and a seven-year-old girl. In both cases, Israel said it was targeting militants who escaped injury.

Israel has killed 13 civilians, most of them children, in four air strikes this month. It is also probably responsible for the killing of a family of seven during a shell barrage against a Gaza beach two weeks ago.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/jun/22/israel
Israel kept up the attacks and blockades, despite the concessions by Hamas, and here we are now.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-07 05:45:43)