Ah, i see, well actually peoples on the forum will say i am more fanatic then not. But as for being right wing jewish extremist you are right... im not.
thats what i thought lol.
btw just for the knowledge - those far right jewish extremists aka Settlers its is jews who live here since days of Moses, this why they feel they has a right to settle anywhere they want.
Last edited by Lisik (2008-12-31 01:59:23)
Since Arabs and Muslims will protest every time Israel blows its nose, a lack of protest ( concern really) shows an obvious approval of the attacks into Israel. It is only when Israel response to it that people flock and protest. Hamas, by the way, was an elected govt.Spark wrote:
Because a protest against the rocket attacks would do... what, exactly?
Let's be clear here - they're terrorists and thus could not give two shits about what anyone in Europe, America or Australia thinks about them.
Israel, however, is a democratically elected state and thus does give two shits. Hence, protests have at least some chance of doing something.
1. Well now you are back peddling again. a region is not a country. Palestine as a nation, like you tried to impress, does not exist and never has.Dilbert_X wrote:
1. The region has been known as Palestine for millenia, same as Arabia, Persia etc. None of them belong to the Israelis, or have had more than trivial populations of jews for thousands of years.
Just because an area has not had a formal western style government - a concept totally alien to the region - doesn't mean someone can just walk in and kick out the inhabitants.
2. The inspectors searched extensively and found nothing, they were finally withdrawn due to the impending invasion, not kicked out.
If the Police searched your house every day looking for something illegal which you knew you didn't have you'd get a bit pissed off after a while.
There was no stalling as there were no illegal materials to remove.
Again, not one single atom of WMDs has been found.
3. Jihadists maybe, both sides are prepared to die for a bizarre and pointless cause, thats the point.
2. Better go back and re-read your history, the inspectors were kicked out several times throughout the '90's when they wanted unannounced access to certain areas. If I had nothing to hide ( or move) I would allow unabided access like the ceasefire that was signed demanded. If for nothing else, to make sure no one had a reason to re-engage the war.
3. Nope you are back peddling again. You said American troops are happy to die. THis is not true. Being happy to die and willing to die are too different things. The jihadists seek death as an objective. US troops do not do this. A cop is willing to die in the line of duty, but if given a choice I am pretty sure he would not be happy to do so, or do it unpurpose.
1. It was a defined country governed by its own people, not in the Western sense but good enough. Under the League of Nations mandate it was a country.
2. So they were kicked out, as mentioned before no doubt you would get tired of people crawling through your house over and over looking for something you know you don't have.
3. US troops are presumably happy to die for their cause as they go off and do it, 5,000+ so far. If not they are free to pick another line of work, same as the jihadists.
Lets use 'willing' if your prefer, both sides are willing to die for their arbitrary reasons.
2. So they were kicked out, as mentioned before no doubt you would get tired of people crawling through your house over and over looking for something you know you don't have.
3. US troops are presumably happy to die for their cause as they go off and do it, 5,000+ so far. If not they are free to pick another line of work, same as the jihadists.
Lets use 'willing' if your prefer, both sides are willing to die for their arbitrary reasons.
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1.. Sorry, Palestine is not and was never a country, you can try and re-define as you want but the fact still exists.Dilbert_X wrote:
1. It was a defined country governed by its own people, not in the Western sense but good enough. Under the League of Nations mandate it was a country.
2. So they were kicked out, as mentioned before no doubt you would get tired of people crawling through your house over and over looking for something you know you don't have.
3. US troops are presumably happy to die for their cause as they go off and do it, 5,000+ so far. If not they are free to pick another line of work, same as the jihadists.
Lets use 'willing' if your prefer, both sides are willing to die for their arbitrary reasons.
2. So they were kicked out. If you did not want them in your country then you should not have agreed to let them in IF everyone stops winning a war against you.
3. You are nothing short of stubborn. There is a difference in the attitudes of both regarding the value of life. If you do not see that then you are, like I said before, pretty much fucked up.
I realise that... but does that change the fact they're terrorists? You haven't answered my point.lowing wrote:
Since Arabs and Muslims will protest every time Israel blows its nose, a lack of protest ( concern really) shows an obvious approval of the attacks into Israel. It is only when Israel response to it that people flock and protest. Hamas, by the way, was an elected govt.Spark wrote:
Because a protest against the rocket attacks would do... what, exactly?
Let's be clear here - they're terrorists and thus could not give two shits about what anyone in Europe, America or Australia thinks about them.
Israel, however, is a democratically elected state and thus does give two shits. Hence, protests have at least some chance of doing something.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
1. There was never a 'country' in most of the ME if you take the narrow westen view. The supposed biblical Israel doesn't count either, unless you include the time the Romans were running it -> in which case the whole region belongs to Italy and the Israelis and Palestinians should both GTFO
2. Everyone has their limit, if the US keeps pushing resolutions through the UN calling for yet more inspections when the last round found zip, and when the US stacks the inspection treams with CIA who do more spying than inspecting then they're going to get pissed eventually.
3. Of course there's a difference, but both sides are willing to die for esoteric notions, thats the point.
Islamic Jihad and the Marines have been brainwashed in different ways and to different extents, but both sides relish the business.
2. Everyone has their limit, if the US keeps pushing resolutions through the UN calling for yet more inspections when the last round found zip, and when the US stacks the inspection treams with CIA who do more spying than inspecting then they're going to get pissed eventually.
3. Of course there's a difference, but both sides are willing to die for esoteric notions, thats the point.
Islamic Jihad and the Marines have been brainwashed in different ways and to different extents, but both sides relish the business.
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1. It ain't my rules, Israel is a country, Palestine is not, and never wasDilbert_X wrote:
1. There was never a 'country' in most of the ME if you take the narrow westen view. The supposed biblical Israel doesn't count either, unless you include the time the Romans were running it -> in which case the whole region belongs to Italy and the Israelis and Palestinians should both GTFO
2. Everyone has their limit, if the US keeps pushing resolutions through the UN calling for yet more inspections when the last round found zip, and when the US stacks the inspection treams with CIA who do more spying than inspecting then they're going to get pissed eventually.
3. Of course there's a difference, but both sides are willing to die for esoteric notions, thats the point.
Islamic Jihad and the Marines have been brainwashed in different ways and to different extents, but both sides relish the business.
2. You keep tap dancing. The fact is Iraq broke the peace treaty. Everything else is white wash
3. Look, you said Americans are happy to die for oil, that is bullshit and you know it is bullshit, stop trying to back peaddle and change what you said and meant.
wait. ur saying that the palestinians did not own and live in the land now known as israel for around 1000 years. who lived there then? because the jews didnt... the only right they have to the land is that their "god" gave it to them. which is more of a bullshit excuse than "we've been living here for a 1000 years u cant just come back and take our land"lowing wrote:
1. It ain't my rules, Israel is a country, Palestine is not, and never wasDilbert_X wrote:
1. There was never a 'country' in most of the ME if you take the narrow westen view. The supposed biblical Israel doesn't count either, unless you include the time the Romans were running it -> in which case the whole region belongs to Italy and the Israelis and Palestinians should both GTFO
2. Everyone has their limit, if the US keeps pushing resolutions through the UN calling for yet more inspections when the last round found zip, and when the US stacks the inspection treams with CIA who do more spying than inspecting then they're going to get pissed eventually.
3. Of course there's a difference, but both sides are willing to die for esoteric notions, thats the point.
Islamic Jihad and the Marines have been brainwashed in different ways and to different extents, but both sides relish the business.
2. You keep tap dancing. The fact is Iraq broke the peace treaty. Everything else is white wash
3. Look, you said Americans are happy to die for oil, that is bullshit and you know it is bullshit, stop trying to back peaddle and change what you said and meant.
Which rules are you using. According to multiple maps and opinions Palestine was a countryLowing wrote:
1. It ain't my rules, Israel is a country, Palestine is not, and never was
Not according to the experts. And in any case, the Iraqis broke nothing, they had no WMD, they cooperated with the UN until the inspectors were withdrawn due to the impending US attack.2. You keep tap dancing. The fact is Iraq broke the peace treaty. Everything else is white wash
It was up to the UN to determine who broke the treaty, the US should have dealt with it through the UN.
The US didn't and has borne the consequences - mainly the cost.
Americans are happy/willing/prepared to go die for oil/protect Israel as thats what the invasion was about and anything else is bullshit.3. Look, you said Americans are happy to die for oil, that is bullshit and you know it is bullshit, stop trying to back peaddle and change what you said and meant.
If they choose to believe they're fighting for 'freedom' or 'national security' thats up to them.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-01 19:59:09)
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1. unfortunately for your argument, a country's existance or not is a matter of fact not opinion.Dilbert_X wrote:
Which rules are you using. According to multiple maps and opinions Palestine was a countryLowing wrote:
1. It ain't my rules, Israel is a country, Palestine is not, and never wasNot according to the experts. And in any case, the Iraqis broke nothing, they had no WMD, they cooperated with the UN until the inspectors were withdrawn due to the impending US attack.2. You keep tap dancing. The fact is Iraq broke the peace treaty. Everything else is white wash
It was up to the UN to determine who broke the treaty, the US should have dealt with it through the UN.
The US didn't and has borne the consequences - mainly the cost.Americans are happy/willing/prepared to go die for oil/protect Israel as thats what the invasion was about and anything else is bullshit.3. Look, you said Americans are happy to die for oil, that is bullshit and you know it is bullshit, stop trying to back peaddle and change what you said and meant.
If they choose to believe they're fighting for 'freedom' or 'national security' thats up to them.
2. Sighhhhhhhhhh, re-read history again, all through the '90's Iraq ejected inspectors then allowed them in, just to eject them again. This went on for a decade. Iraq DID NOT cooperate with the inspections under the terms of the peace treaty. The US does not get permission from the UN for its own interests. It never has and never will. Sorry.
3. Yeah yeah yeah, if you believe their attitudes toward life and death are the same then you are hopeless.
1. Law is always a matter of opinion, please put forward your facts and supporting opinions and we'll see.
I think the Italians have the best claim to the region.
2. US security interests did not require invasion of Iraq, if the US signed up to the UN then it needs to address any security concerns through the UN. Otherwise it should just withdraw.
3. Suit yourself.
I think the Italians have the best claim to the region.
2. US security interests did not require invasion of Iraq, if the US signed up to the UN then it needs to address any security concerns through the UN. Otherwise it should just withdraw.
3. Suit yourself.
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I thought the Hasidim were considered the far right extremist sect of the Jewish faith.Lisik wrote:
btw just for the knowledge - those far right jewish extremists aka Settlers its is jews who live here since days of Moses, this why they feel they has a right to settle anywhere they want.
Then again they opposed Israel in the beginning (I think). I'm not too familiar with the different sects within the Jewish faith though so I'm probably wrong. Ah, just did some reading... I'm confused now. The conservative Jewish movement founded in the USA seems rather liberal, where the Hasidim seem to be the fundamentalists. Labels are so awesome at screwing the English language over.
@ Little Baby Jesus, you are incorrect. There was a decent Jewish population in Palestine for quite a while. Infact afaik some never left when the Jewish Diasporia started. They were Palestinian Jews, and they were pretty happy there I'd wager before all this shit kicked off. Contrary to popular belief in Australia, not all Palestinians are muslims.
Edit: I stand corrected, the Roman and Byzantine empires had banned Jews from the region. It was the Caliphate that lifted the ban.
Those dirty muslims, letting the Jews migrate back to the state of Palestine. /sarcasm
Last edited by Flecco (2009-01-01 22:00:27)
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
yes but the majority became arabs... and that doesnt help prove that the jews have a right to the land. for hundreds of years jews and arabs lived in palestine together (under a arab rule) without bloodshed. yet now the palestinians have been removed from their land and homes in reality because of the holocaust. the palestinians had nothing to do with the holocaust yet they are now suffering because of it.Flecco wrote:
I thought the Hasidim were considered the far right extremist sect of the Jewish faith.Lisik wrote:
btw just for the knowledge - those far right jewish extremists aka Settlers its is jews who live here since days of Moses, this why they feel they has a right to settle anywhere they want.
Then again they opposed Israel in the beginning (I think). I'm not too familiar with the different sects within the Jewish faith though so I'm probably wrong. Ah, just did some reading... I'm confused now. The conservative Jewish movement founded in the USA seems rather liberal, where the Hasidim seem to be the fundamentalists. Labels are so awesome at screwing the English language over.
@ Little Baby Jesus, you are incorrect. There was a decent Jewish population in Palestine for quite a while. Infact afaik some never left when the Jewish Diasporia started. They were Palestinian Jews, and they were pretty happy there I'd wager before all this shit kicked off. Contrary to popular belief in Australia, not all Palestinians are muslims.
Correct, some sects of Judaism regard Israel as an abomination, not all arabs are muslims by an means.
There were many jews living peacefully in Palestine, as jews on their kibbutzes, up to the creation of Israel there was no significant enmity between jews and arabs, moslems, whatever.
The intention with the creation of Israel was the status quo should be maintained - the rights of the indigenous people should be maintained but different areas should be governed by different groups, so jews could continue living in Palestine and vice versa.
Then the Zionists went nuts and started ethnic cleansing, which was opposed by many jewish groups, and the rest is history.
There were many jews living peacefully in Palestine, as jews on their kibbutzes, up to the creation of Israel there was no significant enmity between jews and arabs, moslems, whatever.
The intention with the creation of Israel was the status quo should be maintained - the rights of the indigenous people should be maintained but different areas should be governed by different groups, so jews could continue living in Palestine and vice versa.
Then the Zionists went nuts and started ethnic cleansing, which was opposed by many jewish groups, and the rest is history.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-01 21:14:02)
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What do you mean 'became arabs'... I'm talking about the religous side of things, as always with the Jews. I never treat 'Judaism' as a race/ethnicity because you can convert to it.
The reason for the Palestinian removal from Israeli land has nothing to do with the Holocaust. It's just how the western world justifies their support/turning a blind eye to the human rights crimes perpetrated by Israel.
Lastly; Palestine was rarely actually governed by the local population. There were various periods but mostly a foreign empire/neighbouring power.
The reason for the Palestinian removal from Israeli land has nothing to do with the Holocaust. It's just how the western world justifies their support/turning a blind eye to the human rights crimes perpetrated by Israel.
Lastly; Palestine was rarely actually governed by the local population. There were various periods but mostly a foreign empire/neighbouring power.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
HUH? YOu want me to give you an opinion on a country that does not exist or never has existed? SOrry can't do that.Dilbert_X wrote:
1. Law is always a matter of opinion, please put forward your facts and supporting opinions and we'll see.
I think the Italians have the best claim to the region.
2. US security interests did not require invasion of Iraq, if the US signed up to the UN then it needs to address any security concerns through the UN. Otherwise it should just withdraw.
3. Suit yourself.
2. That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. However, you asked for and I delelivered a link that say otherwise by people who are a lot more " in the know" than you or I. So I will go with that.
Palestine is a specific region which has, like most other countries in the world, has varied its borders and been ruled by different groups over the years.
The jews, of which there were three distinct groups, have no more right to the region than anyone else, apart from maybe the Canaanites.
Maybe you should read up on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_Palestine
The jews, of which there were three distinct groups, have no more right to the region than anyone else, apart from maybe the Canaanites.
Maybe you should read up on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_Palestine
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-01 23:32:36)
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Since the Romans established the administrative province of Judea, the area has generally been administrated from Jerusalem and encompassed much of the area that Israel and Palestine now encompassed. Collectively it's been known as Palestine/Filistin/Palestinia for around 2000 years. Though rarely, if even ever has it been a sovereign state controlled by the people of Palestine, turfing somebody off their property just because a 3000 year old book of myths and legends says it's yours by birthright is a bit thin; even if they haven't had true self determination as a democracy since well... Ever. I'd try it in Wales but it's not really my style and I don't have the backing of the only global hyper-power in existence.lowing wrote:
HUH? YOu want me to give you an opinion on a country that does not exist or never has existed? SOrry can't do that.Dilbert_X wrote:
1. Law is always a matter of opinion, please put forward your facts and supporting opinions and we'll see.
I think the Italians have the best claim to the region.
2. US security interests did not require invasion of Iraq, if the US signed up to the UN then it needs to address any security concerns through the UN. Otherwise it should just withdraw.
3. Suit yourself.
The historical information in this post may not be entirely accurate as my knowledge on the Middle East's history is pretty poor at best. I'm reasonably sure it's accurate enough for BF2S though.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Oh I have read, and from what I read, being a region is not being a sovereign nation as you insisted.Dilbert_X wrote:
Palestine is a specific region which has, like most other countries in the world, has varied its borders and been ruled by different groups over the years.
The jews, of which there were three distinct groups, have no more right to the region than anyone else, apart from maybe the Canaanites.
Maybe you should read up on it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_Palestine
Bottomline, the land is in question and always has been. Dilbert called it the country of Palestine. It is not nor ever was a country. The land has been fought over for 2000 years and that battle continues, Dilbert is just pissed because his side didn't win.Flecco wrote:
Since the Romans established the administrative province of Judea, the area has generally been administrated from Jerusalem and encompassed much of the area that Israel and Palestine now encompassed. Collectively it's been known as Palestine/Filistin/Palestinia for around 2000 years. Though rarely, if even ever has it been a sovereign state controlled by the people of Palestine, turfing somebody off their property just because a 3000 year old book of myths and legends says it's yours by birthright is a bit thin; even if they haven't had true self determination as a democracy since well... Ever. I'd try it in Wales but it's not really my style and I don't have the backing of the only global hyper-power in existence.lowing wrote:
HUH? YOu want me to give you an opinion on a country that does not exist or never has existed? SOrry can't do that.Dilbert_X wrote:
1. Law is always a matter of opinion, please put forward your facts and supporting opinions and we'll see.
I think the Italians have the best claim to the region.
2. US security interests did not require invasion of Iraq, if the US signed up to the UN then it needs to address any security concerns through the UN. Otherwise it should just withdraw.
3. Suit yourself.
The historical information in this post may not be entirely accurate as my knowledge on the Middle East's history is pretty poor at best. I'm reasonably sure it's accurate enough for BF2S though.
You're claiming the country never existed, which is incorrect.
The region has been referred to as Palestine for the last 2,000 years, there has certainly never been a country called Israel either.
The point is the people who have lived there for a hundred generations should have rights over it, not some New Yorkers who read a book.
The region has been referred to as Palestine for the last 2,000 years, there has certainly never been a country called Israel either.
The point is the people who have lived there for a hundred generations should have rights over it, not some New Yorkers who read a book.
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Yet.lowing wrote:
Dilbert is just pissed because his side didn't win.
I need around tree fiddy.