BF2S Forums Calls in Iran to Topple Egyptian, Saudi Regimes

Stubbee wrote:

.Sup wrote:

usmarine wrote:

god the ME is such a fucking shit hole.

as for india and pakitrash.....well, its just a matter of time.

The whole ME? No. Saudi Arabia, Oman and Emirates are no shithole.

Unless you are a woman!

or gay....


minor details

Turquoise wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

wrote:

Not really...  we're just currently too stubborn to move away from oil.  We have the means to do it, but we currently lack the will.

Very funny. There is currently no alternative to oil.

Once the Middle East runs out of oil, they'll be shit out of luck, because they really don't have many resources other than oil.

Not as shit out of luck as the Western world will be.
They are pretty comfortable with riding around on camels. The west is totally dependent on oil for its transport, food and security needs.
There is no way we could grow anything approaching a small fraction of the energy we need through biofuels.

Uh...  You're the last person I expected to hear this from.  I thought you supported moving away from oil and investing more in alternative energy.

Think about this...  America will soon spend $700 billion on bailing out Wall Street.  If we were willing to spend just $100 billion on alternative energy research, we'd be completely removed from foreign oil in about 10 years.

We have the money and the innovation, but we don't have the will -- mostly because there isn't some massively powerful lobby pushing us away from oil.  We instead have powerful lobbies keeping us connected to oil and more specifically foreign oil.

Perhaps it's time to plant crops and buy a few horses.

Turquoise wrote:

Uh...  You're the last person I expected to hear this from.  I thought you supported moving away from oil and investing more in alternative energy.

Think about this...  America will soon spend $700 billion on bailing out Wall Street.  If we were willing to spend just $100 billion on alternative energy research, we'd be completely removed from foreign oil in about 10 years.

We have the money and the innovation, but we don't have the will -- mostly because there isn't some massively powerful lobby pushing us away from oil.  We instead have powerful lobbies keeping us connected to oil and more specifically foreign oil.

I'm wholeheartedly behind trying to reduce our dependence on oil.
To say we have the solution today but are too lazy to use it is plain wrong - It will take 20-30 years minimum if we work flat out, even if we had a solution.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-12-15 23:30:55)

Bit cynical there Dilbert...

Flecco wrote:

Bit cynical there Dilbert...

Just being realistic.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Uh...  You're the last person I expected to hear this from.  I thought you supported moving away from oil and investing more in alternative energy.

Think about this...  America will soon spend $700 billion on bailing out Wall Street.  If we were willing to spend just $100 billion on alternative energy research, we'd be completely removed from foreign oil in about 10 years.

We have the money and the innovation, but we don't have the will -- mostly because there isn't some massively powerful lobby pushing us away from oil.  We instead have powerful lobbies keeping us connected to oil and more specifically foreign oil.

I'm wholeheartedly behind trying to reduce our dependence on oil.
To say we have the solution today but are too lazy to use it is plain wrong - It will take 20-30 years minimum if we work flat out, even if we had a solution.

I suppose we view the potential of heavy funding differently.

MOAB wrote:

Hydrogen happens to be the most abundant resource there is and seperating it from say, water, wouldn't be any more of a hardship to drilling oil.

Pretty pictures, and I know how cars and fuel cells work, thanks.

Hydrogen is the most abundant resource there is? Please point to a supply of free hydrogen.
Might as well say Aluminium is the most abundant metal in the earth's crust, just separate it from its oxide and you're done.
Same for Hydrogen and water.

An understanding of basic thermodynamics would help you.

The difference between oil and hydrogen is you get many times more energy out of oil when you burn it than you expend in the extraction process - so there is net free energy to do what you want with - run a car, heat your house, whatever.
Lets take a guess and say 50-100 times.

OTOH Burning hydrogen, or using it in a fuel cell, produces less energy than you put in in the first place.
So what was the point of converting electricity to hydrogen when you got back less then you put in?
When you add the energy required to compress and cool hydrogen so the energy density is useful you really are losing out.

Comparing a return on investment of 50-100 with 0.5-1.0 gives you the answer.
Hydrogen is not a fuel, its an energy transfer medium like electricity, only not so good.

As I said, do a calculation of how many nuclear plants would be required to be built to allow hydrogen to replace oil use in the USA and you'll get a nasty surprise.

Hydrogen MAY be usable in a passenger car, vehicles which actually do serious work are unlikely to ever usefully use hydrogen.

Turquoise wrote:

I suppose we view the potential of heavy funding differently.

To fund what exactly?
Until we have something to fund we're going nowhere.

Even when we do to:
Develop it
Change a nations infrastructure - say doubling or tripling the capacity of the electrical grid
Change the entire transport fleet

Will take colossal investment and time.

There is plenty of potential out there, we don't have anything approaching a solution yet.
Since oil is running out fast no doubt we will find something, but the days of cheap easy energy from oil will end and its not going to be fun.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-12-16 23:15:35)

Depends on the priority, global warming or energy security.
It would make sense to get cars off oil, as its relatively easy to do, and keep the oil for heavy vehicles, aircraft etc.

fadedsteve wrote:

.Sup wrote:

usmarine wrote:

god the ME is such a fucking shit hole.

as for india and pakitrash.....well, its just a matter of time.

The whole ME? No. Saudi Arabia, Oman and Emirates are no shithole.

Your right! They've benefited from ripping off the rest of the world with their bullshit oil prices, building massive palaces and buildings.  ALL are kingdoms and ALL the cash goes to the King and he distributes it as he sees. . . . . . Mostly for his benefit!!!

They're not shitholes due to the west. . . . .  PERIOD! The drawback is the fucking unbearable heat, bad teeth/horrible breath of most locals, covered up women, and NO BOOZE!

It's a two way street Steve, it's called supply and demand.

Flecco wrote:

CC-Marley wrote:

Shit-storm is coming..

Shit storm only took a brief hiatus because of the Cold War.

She's probs coming back with a vengence now.

This. But don't worry, Israel can shit on them all... again.

san4 wrote:

The Egyptian and Saudi regimes haven't done much to justify their existence.

I can't speak for Saudi since I haven't been there, but I would certainly agree with your statement on Egypt. It's probably a bit unfair given their history of imperialists fucking them over, but still, what a shit hole. Their biggest industry is tourism and the highest cause of death for tourists is traffic accidents. They have police with machine guns on every street corner, but they can't - well, won't - enforce basic road rules. Much of the population lives in squallor, basically carving out an existence begging or stealing from tourists. Clean drinking water... child labour... Forget Iran, Egypt has bigger problems.