you would. i dont know many americans who knew about the camps did you?ATG wrote:
I take that to be a troll post, because surely you could not be that ignorant.
Despite being polar opposites, you and rammunition have a lot in common.Lisik wrote:
lol Braddock, i will use any card i want, any time i want... is that understood?
btw "allied sacrifices to save jews" it is something i first time hear about, care to explain?
he's 100% right. we didnt give a fuck about jews until pearl harbor was attacked did we? fill me in.Turquoise wrote:
Despite being polar opposites, you and rammunition have a lot in common.Lisik wrote:
lol Braddock, i will use any card i want, any time i want... is that understood?
btw "allied sacrifices to save jews" it is something i first time hear about, care to explain?
lol... yep... since we knew so much about the Holocaust beforehand unlike the rest of the world until near the end of the war...usmarine wrote:
he's 100% right. we didnt give a fuck about jews until pearl harbor was attacked did we? fill me in.Turquoise wrote:
Despite being polar opposites, you and rammunition have a lot in common.Lisik wrote:
lol Braddock, i will use any card i want, any time i want... is that understood?
btw "allied sacrifices to save jews" it is something i first time hear about, care to explain?
even during the war the focus was still on defeating the nazis and not liberating concentration camps even if they were just next to the route the allied forces intended to take.usmarine wrote:
he's 100% right. we didnt give a fuck about jews until pearl harbor was attacked did we? fill me in.Turquoise wrote:
Despite being polar opposites, you and rammunition have a lot in common.Lisik wrote:
lol Braddock, i will use any card i want, any time i want... is that understood?
btw "allied sacrifices to save jews" it is something i first time hear about, care to explain?
inane little opines
For the most part, we didn't know much about the camps until we started stumbling upon them. It was pretty much a mystery to most of the world until basically after the war ended.dayarath wrote:
even during the war the focus was still on defeating the nazis and not liberating concentration camps even if they were just next to the route the allied forces intended to take.usmarine wrote:
he's 100% right. we didnt give a fuck about jews until pearl harbor was attacked did we? fill me in.Turquoise wrote:
Despite being polar opposites, you and rammunition have a lot in common.
We weren't exactly prepared to deal with death camps on our way to defeat the Nazies. Honestly, I don't think anyone expected the Nazies to be THAT fucked up.
on the other hand noone wanted to waste extra resources / manpower / time on liberating camps while they had the main force of the nazis to defeat / trail. That was a big problem.Turquoise wrote:
For the most part, we didn't know much about the camps until we started stumbling upon them. It was pretty much a mystery to most of the world until basically after the war ended.dayarath wrote:
even during the war the focus was still on defeating the nazis and not liberating concentration camps even if they were just next to the route the allied forces intended to take.usmarine wrote:
he's 100% right. we didnt give a fuck about jews until pearl harbor was attacked did we? fill me in.
We weren't exactly prepared to deal with death camps on our way to defeat the Nazies. Honestly, I don't think anyone expected the Nazies to be THAT fucked up.
I don't think you can hold the people who chose not to liberate the camps immediately responsible, they just tried to push the nazi regime over as quick as they could, rest was bussiness for later on. In some cases though, people knew what was going on in said camps but due to above reasons weren't immediately liberated on the route to berlin.
inane little opines
Especially given the Nazi's penchant for 'reprisals' - an attack on one camp could lead to everyone in the rest of the camps being wiped out ASAP. We can't know for sure (predicting the past is hard), but there's a strong chance something like that would have happened.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
True... Still, I think we can agree that Lisik's remark was extremely ignorant.dayarath wrote:
on the other hand noone wanted to waste extra resources / manpower / time on liberating camps while they had the main force of the nazis to defeat / trail. That was a big problem.Turquoise wrote:
For the most part, we didn't know much about the camps until we started stumbling upon them. It was pretty much a mystery to most of the world until basically after the war ended.dayarath wrote:
even during the war the focus was still on defeating the nazis and not liberating concentration camps even if they were just next to the route the allied forces intended to take.
We weren't exactly prepared to deal with death camps on our way to defeat the Nazies. Honestly, I don't think anyone expected the Nazies to be THAT fucked up.
I don't think you can hold the people who chose not to liberate the camps immediately responsible, they just tried to push the nazi regime over as quick as they could, rest was bussiness for later on. In some cases though, people knew what was going on in said camps but due to above reasons weren't immediately liberated on the route to berlin.
AgreedTurquoise wrote:
True... Still, I think we can agree that Lisik's remark was extremely ignorant.dayarath wrote:
on the other hand noone wanted to waste extra resources / manpower / time on liberating camps while they had the main force of the nazis to defeat / trail. That was a big problem.Turquoise wrote:
For the most part, we didn't know much about the camps until we started stumbling upon them. It was pretty much a mystery to most of the world until basically after the war ended.
We weren't exactly prepared to deal with death camps on our way to defeat the Nazies. Honestly, I don't think anyone expected the Nazies to be THAT fucked up.
I don't think you can hold the people who chose not to liberate the camps immediately responsible, they just tried to push the nazi regime over as quick as they could, rest was bussiness for later on. In some cases though, people knew what was going on in said camps but due to above reasons weren't immediately liberated on the route to berlin.
JahManRed wrote:
He was talking about Israelis. And seeing as you have to be a Jew to be one, its hard not to talk about them when talking about Israel.Lisik wrote:
You posted this wall of text about Jews right after saying that we not talking about Jews. Am i missing something?
Wikipedia wrote:
Making up 16.2% of the population, Muslims constitute Israel's largest religious minority....Israel has two official languages, Hebrew and Arabic.
Im not trolling, im serious. And it is not because of lack of respect to WWII veterans it is because im realist. When you go to super to buy milk and "by the way" buy sugar, do you after say "i went to super to buy sugar? Or, you say "i went to super to buy milk"? You say milk, and same here. Did Allied went to war against Germany to liberate Jews? No. Is there any military operation of WWII the goal of which was to liberate Jews? No.ATG wrote:
I take that to be a troll post, because surely you could not be that ignorant.Lisik wrote:
lol Braddock, i will use any card i want, any time i want... is that understood?
btw "allied sacrifices to save jews" it is something i first time hear about, care to explain?
If you think about it even more, you will find out that it is just physically impossible. Nazi crimes against Jews was discovered after the war. Soldier man and women sacrificed their lives to free the whole world, that is something i more then agree with. But saying that they sacrificed their lives to save the Jews, it just incorrect.
If you know someone who is veteran, ask him if he went to war to liberate Jews, and you will understand this "no" im talking about.
So if my post was ignorant im sorry, hope it cleared some things up.
Agree with Lisik (holy shit....)
The allies knew almost nothing about the concentration camps and the final solution until they stumbled across the camps.
They were seen from the air, and there were a handful of reports which seemed too bizarre to be true.
To say the allies went to war to rescue the jews is to reinvent history.
Although some nations would like people to believe that as a way of papering over the fact they refused asylum to the jews.
It was never Hitler's intention to kill the jews, he just wanted them out of Germany.
Since no other nation would take them, the final solution came about.
Interesting the Israelis are continuing the theme.
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7779087.stm
The allies knew almost nothing about the concentration camps and the final solution until they stumbled across the camps.
They were seen from the air, and there were a handful of reports which seemed too bizarre to be true.
To say the allies went to war to rescue the jews is to reinvent history.
Although some nations would like people to believe that as a way of papering over the fact they refused asylum to the jews.
It was never Hitler's intention to kill the jews, he just wanted them out of Germany.
Since no other nation would take them, the final solution came about.
Interesting the Israelis are continuing the theme.
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7779087.stm
Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni has sparked controversy by saying a Palestinian state would provide "a national solution" for Israel's Arabs.
Among other things I will also be able to approach the Palestinian residents of Israel... and tell them: 'Your national aspirations lie elsewhere.'"
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
You play what ever card you want tough guy!Lisik wrote:
lol Braddock, i will use any card i want, any time i want... is that understood?
You really are an ignorant piece of work aren't you. You may say the salvation of the Jews was a mere byproduct of the Allied effort in the war but we still saved your asses. I know America didn't just step in to save Europe from falling into Nazi hands but they still helped save us and I'm damned if I'm not going to thank them for it. Perhaps you'd have preferred if we hadn't stepped in... perhaps you'd have preferred to have all of your fellow people wiped out completely? Because that's probably what would have happened.Lisik wrote:
btw "allied sacrifices to save jews" it is something i first time hear about, care to explain?
The Allied forces stepped in for one truly noble cause and ended up victorious in the name of two noble causes... and you can't even muster up the graciousness to show any appreciation for that. Perhaps if a fireman ran into a house to save a little child and subsequently noticed you in the house too, thus saving your life also, you wouldn't be in the least bit grateful either?
Braddock..... Ireland didn't saved no ones asses, so relax. I am Russian, and your "we saved your asses" please tell someone else.
Again the topic switched to WW2 and the holocaust.. Is it possible to just talk about Israel?
I want to hear Lisik side of the argument about the illegal settlements and what he think of sharing Jerusalem with the Palestinians in an event of an independant Palestinian State.
Stop ganking him!! We only have one israeli here.. don't scare him away
I want to hear Lisik side of the argument about the illegal settlements and what he think of sharing Jerusalem with the Palestinians in an event of an independant Palestinian State.
Stop ganking him!! We only have one israeli here.. don't scare him away
Im against settlements, but im also against Palestinians capital in Jerusalem. City of Gaza thats were they should have their capital.
add: i just now realized, why the hell i respond to hitler lover.
add: i just now realized, why the hell i respond to hitler lover.
Last edited by Lisik (2008-12-16 06:01:12)
Actually it is estimated that up to as many as 10'000 Irish people volunteered to join the war effort and gave their lives in doing so, mostly as part of the British commonwealth forces. My Grandmother worked in a factory that made weapons that were used against the nazis and my grandfather helped build fighter planes... you can thank me whenever you're ready Lisik!Lisik wrote:
Braddock..... Ireland didn't saved no ones asses, so relax. I am Russian, and your "we saved your asses" please tell someone else.
You are Russian you say? What are you doing living on Palestinian land then?
The fact that you are Russian and still do not recognise the fact that if it weren't for Allied forces your people would possibly not exist today shows how ridiculously conflicted you are as a human being. Are you not humble enough to hold up your hand and say you are grateful for the what the Allied Forces managed to stop, even if it was not their primary aim?
Says the guy whose capital should be in Moscow!Lisik wrote:
Im against settlements, but im also against Palestinians capital in Jerusalem. City of Gaza thats were they should have their capital.
Aren't you the same guy who thinks all Europeans owe American troops (and not just those that served but contemporary troops too) a huge debt of gratitude for intervening in WW2... even though the US only intervened after Pearl Harbour, and primarily out of a sense of self preservation?usmarine wrote:
he's 100% right. we didnt give a fuck about jews until pearl harbor was attacked did we? fill me in.Turquoise wrote:
Despite being polar opposites, you and rammunition have a lot in common.Lisik wrote:
lol Braddock, i will use any card i want, any time i want... is that understood?
btw "allied sacrifices to save jews" it is something i first time hear about, care to explain?
You're a bit conflicted there dude.
I am very grateful to the Allied forces who served in WW2, they helped save Europe from fascism and I don't much care that this was a secondary objective... we still reaped the benefits. I think it was the same for the Jewish people and Lisik should at least be a more appreciative of this fact. The other side of the coin would have been the Allied forces all sitting on their arses saying "fuck the Jews, let them all go to the gas chamber"... but they didn't.
Why Jewish capital should be in Moscow?
And i din't said i am not grateful, i just don't agree with "sacrifices to save Jews" statement.
And i din't said i am not grateful, i just don't agree with "sacrifices to save Jews" statement.
Ok for settlements youre not as bad as i thought but why don't you want to share Jerusalem? It wasn't even yours in the first place!! It's called land grabbing. At least i hope that you support going back to the 1967 borders eh?Lisik wrote:
Im against settlements, but im also against Palestinians capital in Jerusalem. City of Gaza thats were they should have their capital.
You said you were Russian, what business have you in the Middle East?Lisik wrote:
Why Jewish capital should be in Moscow?
And i din't said i am not grateful, i just don't agree with "sacrifices to save Jews" statement.
At least you are starting to show signs of humility... anyone who died fighting the Nazis could be legitimately described as a sacrifice in the name of Jewish salvation being that the Allied intervention saved the Jews from annihilation (even if it was a secondary objective).
Braddock you trying to make elephant out of fly. No need to have a big brain to understand that when i said im Russian i meant that i am Russian jew who immigrated to Israel.
When you have "Go forth and fuck with one another! For there is Great Cause and Much Grudge in mine Book" enshrined in three of the major world Holy Books - there's never going to be a lasting peace in the middle east.
And, Israel will continue to hold what they've got against the rest of the middle east.
Continental Europeans opinions on Israel be damned - 'cause you all did a fuck of a job standing by and watching them get burned in the 1930's and 1940's. And now they're supposed to listen to your cries of "play fair! be nice!"?
They tried the whole passive resistance and praying for justice during WW-2. Now, they're of the mindset of "never again".
And, Israel will continue to hold what they've got against the rest of the middle east.
Continental Europeans opinions on Israel be damned - 'cause you all did a fuck of a job standing by and watching them get burned in the 1930's and 1940's. And now they're supposed to listen to your cries of "play fair! be nice!"?
They tried the whole passive resistance and praying for justice during WW-2. Now, they're of the mindset of "never again".
Last edited by rdx-fx (2008-12-16 07:01:19)