BF2S Forums Mugabe:Cholera caused by the UK

usmarine wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

What we did to the Native Americans was pretty awful, but again, look at the country we are today.

we?  you mean the euros right?

One minute you're proud of your founding fathers and their monumental achievements in birthing your nation... the next you're attributing their atrocities back onto the Europeans?

Nah, the Founding Fathers weren't European. They ran away from us because they didn't fit into our clique-club in fact. So yeah. Americans committed genocide, don't play hot potato with the blame; picking and choosing history as you like it (i.e. Europeans did the bad shit, true Patriotic freedom-fry eating Americans established our glorious nation etc.etc)...

Dilbert_X wrote:

I thought they ran away to practise some cult religion thing.

He-ey you can't be so high and mighty either, you have a lot in common with the Yankee Doodles... you're born out of our low-cultured unfit social abortions . I'm not sure what's worse; religiously bigoted slave owners with a greed for self-profit or murdering raping convicts. Haha!

But yes, more so my point: If us dreadful Europeans did the terrible genocidal parts of nation-birthing, you had better apply the same objective assessment and conclude that America was the fine invention of Europe and our awesome society-forming skills. You should be thanking us for our gift of democracy if we were the ones that carried out the forming process!

Dilbert_X wrote:

Uzique wrote:

He-ey you can't be so high and mighty either, you have a lot in common with the Yankee Doodles... you're born out of our low-cultured unfit social abortions

Er hardly old chap, I migrated here four years ago as a skilled migrant.
Before that Surrey, Hampshire and Oxfordshire.

I was making a joke about Australians, don't take it to heart .

could be worse, could be welsh

Fuck you Ted, go nail bomb a city centre.

I don't know, sometimes its nice to have a bird in a tiara rubbing against your balls while you're necking a cold one.

Switch wrote:

Pubic wrote:

If Mugabe thinks its a terrorist attack by the UK, why doesn't he just declare war on the UK?

I wish he would, then it would give the government an excuse to go and remove him.

Mugabe seems to have some serious beef with the UK, he should be thankful for us putting him there.

Jesus christ that would be fun.

Pretty sure Kenya would let us launch from there too

Uzique wrote:

Nah, the Founding Fathers weren't European.

wow.  and you go to oxford or something?  lol.

M.O.A.B wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Switch wrote:

I wish he would, then it would give the government an excuse to go and remove him.

Mugabe seems to have some serious beef with the UK, he should be thankful for us putting him there.

Jesus christ that would be fun.

Pretty sure Kenya would let us launch from there too

We could put bets on how long it'd last. I call a week at most.

Maybe he is hiding sadams invisible WMD

Kmarion wrote:

Bell wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

We could put bets on how long it'd last. I call a week at most.

Maybe he is hiding sadams invisible WMD

Which reminds me, happy anniversary.

Blogs stink of shitty personal opinions and bias.

Uzique, GET HIM!

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

By wiping out most of the local populace and manipulating them into handing over most of their land we did them good ? Australia, well that was a penal colony that ended up bending over their locals as well. My opinion is based in morals also.. and that is way I prefer to see a lasting and good outcome for the people of Zimbabwe. It's tempting to try and apply quick band aid fixes.

What we did to the Native Americans was pretty awful, but again, look at the country we are today.

A bunch of mostly Europeans. Are you suggesting that the EU turn Zimbabwe into a bunch of mostly Europeans? The idea is to focus on the people you are claiming to help.

Sorry, I should have been more clear.  I was suggesting that some group like the EU come in and take over, but some death will inevitably occur.  You'd have to kill the ones that resisted you, but you spare the ones who surrender.  Besides, most of the resistance would come either from their corrupt government and various gangs of militants and warlords -- not exactly worthwhile people.

Kmarion wrote:

Given the discrepancies in technology and immunities between Europeans and Native Americans, they would have likely died one way or another without us having conquered them.  It didn't take much contact with them to spread lots of nasty diseases to them that they had no immunity to, and this was before we even understood much about microorganisms.

This isn't much of an excuse for the irresponsibility of colonial America. The carnage we dealt to the natives was not driven by chance. It was a land grab never before seen in the history of mankind (I think you know this.). My point is that foreign powers rarely act in the best interest of the locals. More importantly it is the locals destiny. Only they can truly decide their fate.

Of course, but it's in our best interests to end something as serious as a cholera outbreak whatever it takes.  You can't let something like that spread.  With our immigration as open as it is, cholera could even make it over here.  Highly infectious diseases like cholera must be stopped, even if it means killing those infected.

The good news is that cholera is relatively easy to contain if a few simple sanitation practices are followed.  However, if Mugabe is neglecting to help his people at all (like now), he has essentially revoked his sovereignty -- at least he has in my opinion.

Kmarion wrote:

I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that, sometimes, really horrible imperialistic shit happens that is virtually inevitable.

Technology may change, but people will always be the same.  What we're seeing in Zimbabwe is just a precursor for another force invading them.  Mugabe's government is shit, but they have neighbors that might be interested in invading them soon.   There's always several factions going to war in sub-Saharan Africa, and as long as we let a country like Zimbabwe attempt a pathetic mockery of self-rule, they'll just be a bastion of poverty and disease.

So yes, I would have to say that I prefer imperialism over letting something like this fester.

An invasion will not solve Zimbawes's problems. Civilizations do change, some just take a little longer to come around. Look at Europe over the last four hundred years. We can't force the process. I've got history on my side.

We forced the process here.  The Roman Empire forced the process to the lands they conquered.  Spain and Portugal did the same to what would become South America.

Again, I'm not saying it's necessarily the right thing to do, but I can say that letting Zimbabwe fester like this is going to cause problems for a lot of the world.

Uzique wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

I thought they ran away to practise some cult religion thing.

He-ey you can't be so high and mighty either, you have a lot in common with the Yankee Doodles... you're born out of our low-cultured unfit social abortions . I'm not sure what's worse; religiously bigoted slave owners with a greed for self-profit or murdering raping convicts. Haha!

But yes, more so my point: If us dreadful Europeans did the terrible genocidal parts of nation-birthing, you had better apply the same objective assessment and conclude that America was the fine invention of Europe and our awesome society-forming skills. You should be thanking us for our gift of democracy if we were the ones that carried out the forming process!

I see what you're saying, and I agree somewhat...

Still, it could also be said that America and Australia were partially begun by highly independent political dissidents.  Many of the prisoners shipped off to Australia were political prisoners.  Many of the people who came to America were looking for political and economic freedom in addition to religious freedom.

So yes, there are some things we owe to European culture and intellectualism, but there is also a spirit of independence that we created on our own.  The basis of our government is much more Libertarian than anything Europe has produced.

America has a very distinct federalist heritage, for example.  A lot more emphasis is devoted to the separation of powers in different branches of government in America than in most other countries.