now?..teddy..jimmy wrote:
Japan will now lead the way.
GMC is owned by a equity group, not people who make cars.
They need to go away.
I find the propaganda against American vehicles to be oatmeal, spoon fed to suckers. usmarine complains about metal workers making $35.00 per hour; how about the median cost of a house there marine?
I hear many simple suggestions to complex problems.
My wife bought a VW Jetta, there were at least six recalls and it was totalled in a 25 mph crash.
They need to go away.
I find the propaganda against American vehicles to be oatmeal, spoon fed to suckers. usmarine complains about metal workers making $35.00 per hour; how about the median cost of a house there marine?
I hear many simple suggestions to complex problems.
I got 270000 miles with little hassle outof my Dodge, I have a GMC van that just died after about 400k hard miles and my beat up Ford has at least that much. I don't even change the oil in my work trucks, so I don't think you speak from experience.SealXo wrote:
ATG wrote:
Those who are self employed and see their business closed or becoming inoperable because of lack of capital
BTW - all cars* (*economical ,middle- low class ,non truck or sports cars) american cars suck, and when they get a bailout, theyll still have shit cars.
Compare a VW gti to a Focus hatchback.
My wife bought a VW Jetta, there were at least six recalls and it was totalled in a 25 mph crash.
Last edited by ATG (2008-12-11 15:38:49)
...as in fullyusmarine wrote:
now?..teddy..jimmy wrote:
Japan will now lead the way.
what the fuck does that have to do with unskilled labor making so much money for nothing?ATG wrote:
usmarine complains about metal workers making $35.00 per hour; how about the median cost of a house there marine?
It is true that Ford has improved their quality somewhat.ATG wrote:
GMC is owned by a equity group, not people who make cars.
They need to go away.
I find the propaganda against American vehicles to be oatmeal, spoon fed to suckers. usmarine complains about metal workers making $35.00 per hour; how about the median cost of a house there marine?
I hear many simple suggestions to complex problems.I got 270000 miles with little hassle outof my Dodge, I have a GMC van that just died after about 400k hard miles and my beat up Ford has at least that much. I don't even change the oil in my work trucks, so I don't think you speak from experience.SealXo wrote:
ATG wrote:
Those who are self employed and see their business closed or becoming inoperable because of lack of capital
BTW - all cars* (*economical ,middle- low class ,non truck or sports cars) american cars suck, and when they get a bailout, theyll still have shit cars.
Compare a VW gti to a Focus hatchback.
My wife bought a VW Jetta, there were at least six recalls and it was totalled in a 25 mph crash.
Still, what should be very concerning to the average taxpayer is how the Big 3 seem to put more effort into lobbyism than into actually improving their business models.
god dammit ATG dont post and leave you twit.
These industries must survive! I want to drive real car, not some plastic and rice mix dammit.
Have you ever driven an American car? There's a fuckload more plastic in them than any Jap car I've ever been in. I swear you could hose down the interior of some of them it's so bad.Roger Lesboules wrote:
These industries must survive! I want to drive real car, not some plastic and rice mix dammit.
I work for a living.usmarine wrote:
god dammit ATG dont post and leave you twit.
You want unskilled labor making aircraft bodies there chief?
You wouldn't last one day in my shop, I bet.
My employees go went through a five year training cycle.
You actually have to have a license to do the sheet metal work I do.
Go ahead, make more clueless posts. I actually was happy to see you weren't perma banned.
I have a license to work on sheet metal also my dear, I have an ---->Airframe and Powerplant license. People at a Ford plant do not. I dont see your point at all. Your example fails.ATG wrote:
I work for a living.usmarine wrote:
god dammit ATG dont post and leave you twit.
You want unskilled labor making aircraft bodies there chief?
You wouldn't last one day in my shop, I bet.
My employees go went through a five year training cycle.
You actually have to have a license to do the sheet metal work I do.
Go ahead, make more clueless posts. I actually was happy to see you weren't perma banned.
My user name seems to have more and more relative significance as of late.
Maybe I should learn to speak Japanese and consider a vacation? Lavadisk, can u give me a few lessons?
Maybe I should learn to speak Japanese and consider a vacation? Lavadisk, can u give me a few lessons?
Nature is a powerful force. Those who seek to subdue nature, never do so permanently.
i wouldnt go to japan for vacation.Im_Dooomed wrote:
Maybe I should learn to speak Japanese and consider a vacation?
It's more than that. I've mentioned it before in another thread, but the blame doesn't rest fully on the shoulders of the US automotive industry. The government that regulated them to death should share some of that blame, and it looks as if they're about to. It's sad that the US taxpayer has to pick up the tab (don't we always), but it is for national security reasons that we cannot let that manufacturing base collapse...teddy..jimmy wrote:
that's a load of jobs at stake.
It's also beginning to look that, despite the heated election, Obama is shaping up to be Bush 2.0. I would've liked to have been a fly on the wall when he met up with W...
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-12-11 18:27:17)
toyota and honda fall under the same regulations. explain that one to me please.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
The government that regulated them to death should share some of that blame
I would have thought that Honda and Toyoto fall under a special category like they do here in Aus. Because they are imported from Japan they have a few thousand dollars mark up in price as a tariff to keep locally made cars at a relative price. Otherwise the imported cars would be bought simply because of the huge saving in money.
oh and ATG. if your shops metal work is as strict as aviation requirements with constant inspections, then i think i could work in your shop.usmarine wrote:
I have a license to work on sheet metal also my dear, I have an ---->Airframe and Powerplant license. People at a Ford plant do not. I dont see your point at all. Your example fails.ATG wrote:
I work for a living.usmarine wrote:
god dammit ATG dont post and leave you twit.
You want unskilled labor making aircraft bodies there chief?
You wouldn't last one day in my shop, I bet.
My employees go went through a five year training cycle.
You actually have to have a license to do the sheet metal work I do.
Go ahead, make more clueless posts. I actually was happy to see you weren't perma banned.
I doubt it, you aint Mexican.usmarine wrote:
oh and ATG. if your shops metal work is as strict as aviation requirements with constant inspections, then i think i could work in your shop.
Malloy must go
hmmm....touche'deeznutz1245 wrote:
I doubt it, you aint Mexican.usmarine wrote:
oh and ATG. if your shops metal work is as strict as aviation requirements with constant inspections, then i think i could work in your shop.
I have an American car right now, not too much plastic tbh. The exterior is about 90, 95% metal compared to rice bomb.ghettoperson wrote:
Have you ever driven an American car? There's a fuckload more plastic in them than any Jap car I've ever been in. I swear you could hose down the interior of some of them it's so bad.Roger Lesboules wrote:
These industries must survive! I want to drive real car, not some plastic and rice mix dammit.
A stripped out car with a bucket seat does not count.Roger Lesboules wrote:
I have an American car right now, not too much plastic tbh. The exterior is about 90, 95% metal compared to rice bomb.ghettoperson wrote:
Have you ever driven an American car? There's a fuckload more plastic in them than any Jap car I've ever been in. I swear you could hose down the interior of some of them it's so bad.Roger Lesboules wrote:
These industries must survive! I want to drive real car, not some plastic and rice mix dammit.
lol...stupid unions.
A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_ … ress_autos
A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_ … ress_autos
For the moment, I'll put aside the various states of favorable protectionism given to foreign auto industries; it's not that easy to dismiss our flawed corporate tax system and the miles of red tape that keep policymakers and unions at US auto's heels. Plus, there's always the disaster of health care costs for employees.usmarine wrote:
toyota and honda fall under the same regulations. explain that one to me please.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
The government that regulated them to death should share some of that blame
Besides which, you've cut out the fact that even in its admittedly pallid state of squalor, we can't exactly allow that manufacturing base to go ass-up. It needs help, and not just in the form of cash.
"Republican demands for swift wage cuts."usmarine wrote:
lol...stupid unions.
A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_ … ress_autos
Of course the unions shot that down. Why should the workers be forced to have lower pay as a condition of the bailout?
The only reason the pay is higher than that of the Japanese counterparts is due to health care benefits, holiday pay and pension funds. You want these workers to be under increased pressure during a recession by taking away holidays and pension plans? Get real. There was no talk of slashing bankers wages when the major banks were bailed out. The CEO's didn't see the millions they have in pensions suffer one cent.
"Republicans also bitterly opposed tougher environmental rules car makers would have to meet as part of the House-passed version of the rescue package and the Senate dropped them from its package."
The reason those environmental rules are in place is to provide a research and development expansion which would create more jobs, make these companies more competitive globally and also tackle climate change.
What a stupid move by the Republicans.
Why should the workers be forced to have lower pay as a condition of the bailout? you ask...TheAussieReaper wrote:
"Republican demands for swift wage cuts."usmarine wrote:
lol...stupid unions.
A $14 billion emergency bailout for U.S. automakers collapsed in the Senate Thursday night after the United Auto Workers refused to accede to Republican demands for swift wage cuts.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081212/ap_ … ress_autos
Of course the unions shot that down. Why should the workers be forced to have lower pay as a condition of the bailout?
The only reason the pay is higher than that of the Japanese counterparts is due to health care benefits, holiday pay and pension funds. You want these workers to be under increased pressure during a recession by taking away holidays and pension plans? Get real. There was no talk of slashing bankers wages when the major banks were bailed out. The CEO's didn't see the millions they have in pensions suffer one cent.
"Republicans also bitterly opposed tougher environmental rules car makers would have to meet as part of the House-passed version of the rescue package and the Senate dropped them from its package."
The reason those environmental rules are in place is to provide a research and development expansion which would create more jobs, make these companies more competitive globally and also tackle climate change.
What a stupid move by the Republicans.
because they aren't in a position to haggle... if i had a business that i neglected and paid people great salaries and benefits and i was running out of money and i came to you... and i said... can i borrow 5 million to get my business back on track... Would you just stroke a check or would you find out what i intended to do with the money and how i was going to make things better and more efficient with my faltering company...
the unions didn't wan't to budge... now a lot of people will lose their jobs... and these companies will go through bankruptcy a couple of months early... Will be interesting to see what role unions play when GM declares bankruptcy and starts to rebuild...?
Love is the answer
No, the businesses are not in a position to haggle. The workers and UAW signed contracts with those companies that don't expire until 2011.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
Why should the workers be forced to have lower pay as a condition of the bailout? you ask...
because they aren't in a position to haggle... if i had a business that i neglected and paid people great salaries and benefits and i was running out of money and i came to you... and i said... can i borrow 5 million to get my business back on track... Would you just stroke a check or would you find out what i intended to do with the money and how i was going to make things better and more efficient with my faltering company...
the unions didn't wan't to budge... now a lot of people will lose their jobs... and these companies will go through bankruptcy a couple of months early... Will be interesting to see what role unions play when GM declares bankruptcy and starts to rebuild...?
A binding contract. The haggling has already taken place.
Why should the workers who signed up to these pay rates and conditions, be subject to the terms of their contract being broken while the 3 companies get handed billions of dollars?
The workers have done nothing which has broken the terms of agreement.