I had a look at them, well done... two sources, and one of them is a personal website.lowing wrote:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1120/p01s02-wome.html
http://www.geocities.com/palestiniansar … ields.html
Sorry to disappoint
Now would you care to respond to the stories of the Israeli security services using Palestinian civilians as human shields in the numerous credible sources I posted? You were demonizing the Palestinians throughout this thread for this practice, I would now like to hear you condemn the Israelis for doing the exact same thing.
Guardian
BBC
Wikipedia
Btselem
Independant
Reuters
Haaretz
Haaretz
MSNBC
Newsweek
Last edited by Braddock (2008-12-09 11:16:45)
sure thing, but first, I didn't put too much research into my links Braddock, I typed it in google and blindly fingered 2 cites. Pretty easy actaully, I am sure you have looked it up yourself and are already aware of the practice. So I didn't take the search very seriouslyBraddock wrote:
I had a look at them, well done... two sources, and one of them is a personal website.lowing wrote:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/1120/p01s02-wome.html
http://www.geocities.com/palestiniansar … ields.html
Sorry to disappoint
Now would you care to respond to the stories of the Israeli security services using Palestinian civilians as human shields in the numerous credible sources I posted? You were demonizing the Palestinians throughout this thread for this practice, I would now like to hear you condemn the Israelis for doing the exact same thing.
Guardian
BBC
Wikipedia
Btselem
Independant
Reuters
Haaretz
Haaretz
MSNBC
Newsweek
there you are disecting the source instead of denying the fact. Reason number 2 I wasn't going to waste time with it. You would have seen the authors name was Jewish or something and dismiss it anyway.
I also wonder just how hard it was to find dirt on Israel, since they are so loved by the world. A jew could spit in the sidewalk and you could link 105 sources as to how may Palestinians were killed. Is there any links to Israel hiding behind Jews in Israel? The Palestines are the enemy of the Israel, so to duck and cover behind your enemy if able while that same enemy attacks you seems pretty smart actually. Besides if Israel is hiding behind Palestines, why are you not condemning Palestine for killing its own people, or being "heavy handed" in its attacks on Israel, that are killing its own people?
To shield yourself with your enemy is one thing, but to shield yourself with those that look to you for protection just seems a little worse, dontcha think?
You're so blindly biased there is not much point arguing.Lowing wrote:
I also wonder just how hard it was to find dirt on Israel, since they are so loved by the world. A jew could spit in the sidewalk and you could link 105 sources as to how may Palestinians were killed.
The question was about 'posing civilians for slaughter', still waiting to know why Israel has civilian 'settlements' in enemy territory.
Fuck Israel
I did two separate searches before I posted my original post; one using the tags "Palestinian Human Shields" and one using the tags "Israeli Human Shields". I noticed that it was harder to find credible sources telling of Palestinians using civilians as human shields - though there were still sources out there. By comparison there was a wealth of sources telling of the Israeli security services using civilians as human shields, these sources being from news agencies in Britain, Europe, the US and even Israel itself... in fact many of the stories telling of Israelis using human shields actually showed up in the first three pages of the search for Palestinian human shields (if you don't believe me try it with Google).lowing wrote:
Sure thing, but first, I didn't put too much research into my links Braddock, I typed it in google and blindly fingered 2 cites. Pretty easy actaully, I am sure you have looked it up yourself and are already aware of the practice. So I didn't take the search very seriously
Also the fact that you would take the personal website of someone who quite clearly hates the Palestinian people with a passion as a credible backup to your argument is worrying. Shall I start using Nazi sites as a validation of my argument?
Two points... firstly I haven't been denying anything in this thread, au contraire in fact; I have repeatedly said that there is much wrongdoing on the side of the Palestinians. The point I was trying to make was that supporters of the Palestinian side here seem to be able to at least admit this whereas the same cannot be said of many Israel supporters in here... as exemplified by yourself, yet again.lowing wrote:
There you are disecting the source instead of denying the fact. Reason number 2 I wasn't going to waste time with it. You would have seen the authors name was Jewish or something and dismiss it anyway.
Secondly... yes, I will question the source. The fact that you would criticize such a thing is deeply worrying. I have already pointed out the highly questionable nature of your second link (go ahead, surf around that site and see what wonderful opinions the guy has) so I was right to question it. Like I have said before, shall I start citing Nazi sites to back up my argument?
I see, so the Internet is anti-semitic now? Here's a newsflash lowing: Jews know how to use the computer too.lowing wrote:
I also wonder just how hard it was to find dirt on Israel, since they are so loved by the world. A jew could spit in the sidewalk and you could link 105 sources as to how may Palestinians were killed. Is there any links to Israel hiding behind Jews in Israel? The Palestines are the enemy of the Israel, so to duck and cover behind your enemy if able while that same enemy attacks you seems pretty smart actually. Besides if Israel is hiding behind Palestines, why are you not condemning Palestine for killing its own people, or being "heavy handed" in its attacks on Israel, that are killing its own people?
This particular comment has effectively put the tin hat on your argument in this thread. You have repeatedly condemned the Palestinians throughout this thread for using innocent civilians as human shields and yet, when confronted with evidence of the Israelis doing the same, you cannot be consistent enough to condemn them for it. In fact you even go so far as to imply that all Palestinians are a legitimate target because they are "the enemy", as you call them, and even praise them for doing so, which is another glaring contradiction because you continually bang on about how the Palestinian militants are the bad guys because they consider any Jew a target.
Oh and by the way, I have repeatedly condemned the Palestinians for being heavy-handed in their attacks on the Israelis. I have repeatedly condemned any attack that results in the death or targeting of innocent civilians... try reading back through this thread and others relating to the topic.
Is that goalposts I hear shifting?lowing wrote:
To shield yourself with your enemy is one thing, but to shield yourself with those that look to you for protection just seems a little worse, dontcha think?
Here is another sad flaw in your argument I'm afraid lowing. I took the time to read some of the links that dealt with Palestinian human shields and it would seem, from eye witness accounts on the ground, that the Palestinians involved form human shields at prospective rocket attack sites on a relatively impromptu basis without much coercion from militant groups. Admittedly they have publicly made calls asking supporters to assist in this regard but given the nature of the strikes and the timing of such events it appears that these shields are composed of whatever supporters happen to be nearby and are willing to run to the site and volunteer. If we compare this with the Israeli tactics where they forcibly place innocent civilians in the line of fire against their will there is a stark contrast.
I however, condemn both tactics... unlike you. You are thoroughly inconsistent in your beliefs and morals when it comes to this argument.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-12-10 08:29:33)
Now that is just a huge case of the pot calling the kettleDilbert_X wrote:
You're so blindly biased there is not much point arguing.
M.O.A.B wrote:
Now that is just a huge case of the pot calling the kettleDilbert_X wrote:
You're so blindly biased there is not much point arguing.
You MOAB have at least condemned the Israelis for some of their actions (as I have with the Palestinians) and as such I can take you seriously in this debate... I'm having a very hard time taking lowing seriously though given that he has such shapeshifting morals when it comes to the Middle East.M.O.A.B wrote:
Now that is just a huge case of the pot calling the kettleDilbert_X wrote:
You're so blindly biased there is not much point arguing.
Because that territory was used to launch attacks into Israel. So Israel kicked the shit outta them and took it. A victorious country that has never enjoyed the spolis of war, please raise your hand.Dilbert_X wrote:
You're so blindly biased there is not much point arguing.Lowing wrote:
I also wonder just how hard it was to find dirt on Israel, since they are so loved by the world. A jew could spit in the sidewalk and you could link 105 sources as to how may Palestinians were killed.
The question was about 'posing civilians for slaughter', still waiting to know why Israel has civilian 'settlements' in enemy territory.
It is ironic how you ca ncall me biased, almost as if you and the others are not.
Not really. I just have an opinion that no matter what Israel does, it will never be allowed to exist in peace. Yet, they are the ones blamed for the lack of it. I think if Israel is left alone, in turn they would do the same. I do not believe for one second, that if Israel stopped defending itself, that its nieghbors would in turn stop fighting. I think the second Israel relaxed its posture, its nieghbors would go for the kill insted of the handshake.Braddock wrote:
I did two separate searches before I posted my original post; one using the tags "Palestinian Human Shields" and one using the tags "Israeli Human Shields". I noticed that it was harder to find credible sources telling of Palestinians using civilians as human shields - though there were still sources out there. By comparison there was a wealth of sources telling of the Israeli security services using civilians as human shields, these sources being from news agencies in Britain, Europe, the US and even Israel itself... in fact many of the stories telling of Israelis using human shields actually showed up in the first three pages of the search for Palestinian human shields (if you don't believe me try it with Google).lowing wrote:
Sure thing, but first, I didn't put too much research into my links Braddock, I typed it in google and blindly fingered 2 cites. Pretty easy actaully, I am sure you have looked it up yourself and are already aware of the practice. So I didn't take the search very seriously
Also the fact that you would take the personal website of someone who quite clearly hates the Palestinian people with a passion as a credible backup to your argument is worrying. Shall I start using Nazi sites as a validation of my argument?Two points... firstly I haven't been denying anything in this thread, au contraire in fact; I have repeatedly said that there is much wrongdoing on the side of the Palestinians. The point I was trying to make was that supporters of the Palestinian side here seem to be able to at least admit this whereas the same cannot be said of many Israel supporters in here... as exemplified by yourself, yet again.lowing wrote:
There you are disecting the source instead of denying the fact. Reason number 2 I wasn't going to waste time with it. You would have seen the authors name was Jewish or something and dismiss it anyway.
Secondly... yes, I will question the source. The fact that you would criticize such a thing is deeply worrying. I have already pointed out the highly questionable nature of your second link (go ahead, surf around that site and see what wonderful opinions the guy has) so I was right to question it. Like I have said before, shall I start citing Nazi sites to back up my argument?I see, so the Internet is anti-semitic now? Here's a newsflash lowing: Jews know how to use the computer too.lowing wrote:
I also wonder just how hard it was to find dirt on Israel, since they are so loved by the world. A jew could spit in the sidewalk and you could link 105 sources as to how may Palestinians were killed. Is there any links to Israel hiding behind Jews in Israel? The Palestines are the enemy of the Israel, so to duck and cover behind your enemy if able while that same enemy attacks you seems pretty smart actually. Besides if Israel is hiding behind Palestines, why are you not condemning Palestine for killing its own people, or being "heavy handed" in its attacks on Israel, that are killing its own people?
This particular comment has effectively put the tin hat on your argument in this thread. You have repeatedly condemned the Palestinians throughout this thread for using innocent civilians as human shields and yet, when confronted with evidence of the Israelis doing the same, you cannot be consistent enough to condemn them for it. In fact you even go so far as to imply that all Palestinians are a legitimate target because they are "the enemy", as you call them, and even praise them for doing so, which is another glaring contradiction because you continually bang on about how the Palestinian militants are the bad guys because they consider any Jew a target.
Oh and by the way, I have repeatedly condemned the Palestinians for being heavy-handed in their attacks on the Israelis. I have repeatedly condemned any attack that results in the death or targeting of innocent civilians... try reading back through this thread and others relating to the topic.Is that goalposts I hear shifting?lowing wrote:
To shield yourself with your enemy is one thing, but to shield yourself with those that look to you for protection just seems a little worse, dontcha think?
Here is another sad flaw in your argument I'm afraid lowing. I took the time to read some of the links that dealt with Palestinian human shields and it would seem, from eye witness accounts on the ground, that the Palestinians involved form human shields at prospective rocket attack sites on a relatively impromptu basis without much coercion from militant groups. Admittedly they have publicly made calls asking supporters to assist in this regard but given the nature of the strikes and the timing of such events it appears that these shields are composed of whatever supporters happen to be nearby and are willing to run to the site and volunteer. If we compare this with the Israeli tactics where they forcibly place innocent civilians in the line of fire against their will there is a stark contrast.
I however, condemn both tactics... unlike you. You are thoroughly inconsistent in your beliefs and morals when it comes to this argument.
Therefore Israel is in an impossible position of being damned if they do and damned if they don't. Hence they get more lattitude from me.
@ Lowing...
You give the Israelis a free pass on everything and cannot bring yourself to judge them by the same standards with which you judge the Palestinians. You continually talk about Israel as some sort of hard done by nation when in fact they have been the ones given all the breaks in terms of the international community (thanks largely to unconditional US support that effectively removes the teeth of the UN).
I am still waiting for you to condemn the use of innocent civilians as human shields... you were banging on about it for most of this thread but have fallen strangely silent since I pointed out that the Israelis have done the same thing. Care to comment?
You give the Israelis a free pass on everything and cannot bring yourself to judge them by the same standards with which you judge the Palestinians. You continually talk about Israel as some sort of hard done by nation when in fact they have been the ones given all the breaks in terms of the international community (thanks largely to unconditional US support that effectively removes the teeth of the UN).
I am still waiting for you to condemn the use of innocent civilians as human shields... you were banging on about it for most of this thread but have fallen strangely silent since I pointed out that the Israelis have done the same thing. Care to comment?
All the US does is keep the biased UN from ripping Israel apart. Or do you honestly think that without the US cock block the biased UN wouldn't?Braddock wrote:
@ Lowing...
You give the Israelis a free pass on everything and cannot bring yourself to judge them by the same standards with which you judge the Palestinians. You continually talk about Israel as some sort of hard done by nation when in fact they have been the ones given all the breaks in terms of the international community (thanks largely to unconditional US support that effectively removes the teeth of the UN).
I am still waiting for you to condemn the use of innocent civilians as human shields... you were banging on about it for most of this thread but have fallen strangely silent since I pointed out that the Israelis have done the same thing. Care to comment?
I already said I disapprove of using civilians as shields. Does Israel use Israelis as shields?. If enemy civilians want to stand in the way in a fight so be it.
IF civilians on their own accord use themselves a shields as you pointed out, then Israel is not killing civilians, but rather legit targets. So, so much for your "look at all the civilians Israel kills" claim
The UN is the world.Lowing wrote:
All the US does is keep the biased UN from ripping Israel apart.
Might as well say '99% of people are biased, I on the other hand am neither biased nor paranoid'.
Doesn't make them legitimate targets at all.Lowing wrote:
IF civilians on their own accord use themselves a shields as you pointed out, then Israel is not killing civilians, but rather legit targets.
Since the UN came into existence and seizing territory in war became illegal - none.Lowing wrote:
A victorious country that has never enjoyed the spolis of war, please raise your hand.
Fuck Israel
You are beginning to sound like a tin-hat conspiracy theorist lowing. Who do you think makes up the UN? It is a conglomerate of every country on the planet. Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe the world just doesn't agree with what Israel does in relation to the Palestinians and that maybe the US are just on the wrong side of public opinion? No, of course not, it's simply because the whole world hates Jews, isn't it?lowing wrote:
All the US does is keep the biased UN from ripping Israel apart. Or do you honestly think that without the US cock block the biased UN wouldn't?
"Enemy civilians", you are laughable! Try reading the links lowing... innocent civilians being snatched from their everyday lives and dragged into the line of fire by Israeli defence forces, that is what has been happening; these are not stories of active militants being used as shields. Now you try to shift the goalposts by saying it's okay because it's Palestinians and not Jews that are being used, which quite frankly renders your argument completely unworthy of serious consideration to be quite honest. Your attitude is as disgusting as that of the most ardent Zionist.lowing wrote:
I already said I disapprove of using civilians as shields. Does Israel use Israelis as shields? If enemy civilians want to stand in the way in a fight so be it.
Well at least you're getting back towards something resembling a credible argument here with this point, but I would still disagree with the willful killing of unarmed people. An Al Qaeda member could justify the 9/11 attacks by identifying World Trade Centre workers as willing participants in the US 'machine' and hence legitimate targets despite not being armed or actively taking part in an attack.lowing wrote:
If civilians on their own accord use themselves a shields as you pointed out, then Israel is not killing civilians, but rather legit targets. So, so much for your "look at all the civilians Israel kills" claim
A Short List Of What's Wrong In Relation To Israel/Palestine...
1. Israel established a land in the middle of a land that was already populated by other people
2. Palestinian militants fire rockets at non-military Jewish targets
3. Israel fire rockets at areas containing non-military targets
4. Palestinians carry out suicide bombings in non-military areas
5. Israel seize land that is recognised by the International community as not belonging to them
6. Palestinian militants operate within civilian areas thus endangering civilians
7. Israel allows ultra right-wing Zionists to settle in the occupied territories they have seized
8. Palestinians allow civilians to act as human shields in rocket strike target areas
9. The Israeli defence forces forcibly use Palestinian civilians as human shields when in the line of fire
10. There is an almost systematic indoctrination of hatred towards the Jews among Palestinian youths
11. There is an almost systematic indoctrination of hatred towards the Palestinians among Jewish youths
12. Israel uses their geographical dominance to control the supply of food, water and power to the Palestinians
This is short mixed bag of issues relating to both sides, there are many more besides, but anyone who cannot acknowledge these points in their argument when talking about the Middle East is in my opinion blinkered and biased to the point of not being considered worthy of serious consideration.
1. Israel established a land in the middle of a land that was already populated by other people
2. Palestinian militants fire rockets at non-military Jewish targets
3. Israel fire rockets at areas containing non-military targets
4. Palestinians carry out suicide bombings in non-military areas
5. Israel seize land that is recognised by the International community as not belonging to them
6. Palestinian militants operate within civilian areas thus endangering civilians
7. Israel allows ultra right-wing Zionists to settle in the occupied territories they have seized
8. Palestinians allow civilians to act as human shields in rocket strike target areas
9. The Israeli defence forces forcibly use Palestinian civilians as human shields when in the line of fire
10. There is an almost systematic indoctrination of hatred towards the Jews among Palestinian youths
11. There is an almost systematic indoctrination of hatred towards the Palestinians among Jewish youths
12. Israel uses their geographical dominance to control the supply of food, water and power to the Palestinians
This is short mixed bag of issues relating to both sides, there are many more besides, but anyone who cannot acknowledge these points in their argument when talking about the Middle East is in my opinion blinkered and biased to the point of not being considered worthy of serious consideration.
Bingham Britain's most respected judge my ass. Try Denning
Lord Denning is dead...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Bingham Britain's most respected judge my ass. Try Denning
Funny guy though, excellent debater and lecturer.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
He's still the most respected....Uzique wrote:
Lord Denning is dead...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Bingham Britain's most respected judge my ass. Try Denning
Funny guy though, excellent debater and lecturer.
That guy was a legend although my eyes are suffering as we speak from his lengthy judgments.
Yes but, the fact he is dead kinda rules him out from the title context..teddy..jimmy wrote:
He's still the most respected....Uzique wrote:
Lord Denning is dead...teddy..jimmy wrote:
Bingham Britain's most respected judge my ass. Try Denning
Funny guy though, excellent debater and lecturer.
That guy was a legend although my eyes are suffering as we speak from his lengthy judgments.
What are you studying at the moment? I remember looking at a load of his debates during Law... shudder.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
At the moment I'm studying four modules within Law. Contract Law( where I've seen the majority of his cases), constitutional and administrative Law, criminal law and some god awful crap Intro to Law.Uzique wrote:
Yes but, the fact he is dead kinda rules him out from the title context..teddy..jimmy wrote:
He's still the most respected....Uzique wrote:
Lord Denning is dead.
Funny guy though, excellent debater and lecturer.
That guy was a legend although my eyes are suffering as we speak from his lengthy judgments.
What are you studying at the moment? I remember looking at a load of his debates during Law... shudder.
yeah....he talks...a lot. lol
Diplock is a close contender blabber wise.
Denning has produced some pretty nonsensical judgement, according to a lawyer friend.
The article related to living Judges I think.
The article related to living Judges I think.
Fuck Israel