aim what? you just need to put the sight's post over an enemy and fire 2 single shots. he's down. how much skill does it take? maybe 2 rounds trying?
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I'm laying for some good amount of time (330 hours overall) and yeah I meet the same thing.F.Rabshaw wrote:
you've only been playing 4 days. when you get good you will understand that you can shoot these guys down very easily.
If you meant 4 days playing 1.21 ignore this reply.
Don't quite understand your post morbesso, but I've been playing for about a week now.
I still think it's rather bollocks that the support kit can be used as a very effective sniper.. I've tried it on a few maps now and I'm getting some seriously long distance kills.
Anyway, mods could perhaps move this to the complaints forum?
Ta.
I still think it's rather bollocks that the support kit can be used as a very effective sniper.. I've tried it on a few maps now and I'm getting some seriously long distance kills.
Anyway, mods could perhaps move this to the complaints forum?
Ta.
As someone who used the PKM and other support weapons since this game was released, I can tell you that it is about time they fixed this weapon. Several things about it have been changed since the first release, including time to deploy which many ANTI-PKM players may not realize.
Before the accuracy fix in 1.2, you could start firing at enemy that was 20m away and only see one (maybe two) hit in a five round burst. 20m away? That is horrible accuracy compared to other weapons that do only slightly less damage (like Assault & Medic weapons). That made the kit useless except for resupply and grenade spamming when going head to head against infantry. Granted this is a game, but in real life this weapon slices infantry like butter at 50m and is extremely accurate.
Before 1.2, you could jump down off of something go prone and fire. Granted your accuracy sucked, but you could still shoot. Now, whenever you jump over a wall, off a box, over a sandbag, whatever and go prone, you have to WAIT two seconds before you can start shooting, PERIOD. I always avoid jumping at all costs because I know that wait is coming if I hop just once. If you do experience this, you hold your breath for two seconds waiting for your gun to deploy hoping the guy shooting at you can't hit shit.
Body-armor versus speed. This class compared to other true infantry (spec ops, assault, medic) is insanely slow. I am sure many of ANTI-PKM players out there appreciate when they are running for a chopper or tank and always win against their support teammates. It is like the support class smoked 5 cartons of Marboro before the round started.
So, I say STFU and play. If every class was perfectly balanced, then why would you have different classes at all? Just have one standard kit on both teams with no upgrades and no differences in vehicles. Then you could call it boring and would stop playing in a week because all the good players "are just hacking".
Before the accuracy fix in 1.2, you could start firing at enemy that was 20m away and only see one (maybe two) hit in a five round burst. 20m away? That is horrible accuracy compared to other weapons that do only slightly less damage (like Assault & Medic weapons). That made the kit useless except for resupply and grenade spamming when going head to head against infantry. Granted this is a game, but in real life this weapon slices infantry like butter at 50m and is extremely accurate.
Before 1.2, you could jump down off of something go prone and fire. Granted your accuracy sucked, but you could still shoot. Now, whenever you jump over a wall, off a box, over a sandbag, whatever and go prone, you have to WAIT two seconds before you can start shooting, PERIOD. I always avoid jumping at all costs because I know that wait is coming if I hop just once. If you do experience this, you hold your breath for two seconds waiting for your gun to deploy hoping the guy shooting at you can't hit shit.
Body-armor versus speed. This class compared to other true infantry (spec ops, assault, medic) is insanely slow. I am sure many of ANTI-PKM players out there appreciate when they are running for a chopper or tank and always win against their support teammates. It is like the support class smoked 5 cartons of Marboro before the round started.
So, I say STFU and play. If every class was perfectly balanced, then why would you have different classes at all? Just have one standard kit on both teams with no upgrades and no differences in vehicles. Then you could call it boring and would stop playing in a week because all the good players "are just hacking".
Last edited by AR|Headshasta (2006-03-13 10:30:08)
amen AR/Headshasta... just enjoy the game people... i tried supply recently for the medals and have enjoyed the pkm with exception of limitations of the kit and gun... everything has its good and bad sides--i like sniping but if i miss 1st shot i'm in trouble... i love medic and the weapons but the new shock paddle garbage is irritating... i love the game and will continue to play no matter what they try to "fix"...
The only thing I would do to the support weapons after the patch, is make them have a set up time to use. What I mean by that is, you can just lay down and start instantly shooting, you should have to set up the bi-pod just like you do in real life. The accuracy and damage on them is fine, the mobility is not.
what most annoys me is that if i run up behind some guy with a pkm, aim at his head, fire like 3 shots from the first burst and he will turn around, prone and cut you down faster than you can say shit..
Yeah, I tend to agree, im fedup with n00bs (yes, 4 days of play qualifies him as one) comming here and whining about getting owned by "unrealistic" weapons, Im even more fed up of EA listening to the whining of said n00bs and changing the game to suit them, i.e. grenade launcher being "fixed". Its the players who play for a long time, that take the time to learn what weapons to use and when that make the community. NOT the people who play for 4 days, moan here about getting owned and then move back to sim city or whatever else they were loosing at before comming here. If you dont like the game, go play something else, you wont be missed, (well, apart from the easy frags you provide)MooseRyder wrote:
lol ur funny with supressing fire...if u supress fire on me im just gonna stand up and kill u. Seriously cmon now, its a game supressing fire its worthless in bf2 unless ur shooting with a chopper or a APC.
If u were looking foward for a rea life first person shooter game with BF2 well i got bad news for u. theres A LOT of things in bf2 but most of them are unrealistics. So suck it up and play or quit. and poeple using PKM are as easy as other player using other kits, just learn how to play.
GL and HF elsewhere o/
Last edited by -fe.lep- (2006-03-13 15:00:58)
Boy this is a bit late, but firing a SAW (not the PKM, never fired one for real) from other than the prone. Well it is a bit inacrate, but you are fireing so many rounds that you can still hit something. The other reason that you go prone is that you attract a lot of attention fireing an automatic weapon, everyone is keen on killing you. So it is nice to hide. Even better if there are two or more SAWs, that way you can fire alternating bursts (called talking) to confuse the enemy.
My favorite with a saws is to lay next to them, and tell them not to fire. The enemy thinks there are only 5 guys with m16s. When they get cocky and get up then you tap the SAW gunner and let rip. It creates a mess but you get out alive.
In the Army it (the SAW)is issued with a sling so you can fire it from the hip, but if you have enough strength you can lift it to your shoulder and fire it. The ammo comes in crappy boxes that make a bit of noise moving arround, often we replace it with one from Tactical Taylor. I think the PKM is a little closer to the M60 or the 240B which fires 7.62. That takes a lot of strength to lift and hold to your shoulder. In fact you try to take the tripod with you for that weapon, and a gunner assistant is cool.
BF2 is not the real world, I know that, although sometimes it still gets my heart going. It is nice to have a basic realism, we are not after all playing Unreal. The first time I played and faced a tank I ran. I also used to go prone whenever I heard a PKM so I had to alter that also.
Good playing.
My favorite with a saws is to lay next to them, and tell them not to fire. The enemy thinks there are only 5 guys with m16s. When they get cocky and get up then you tap the SAW gunner and let rip. It creates a mess but you get out alive.
In the Army it (the SAW)is issued with a sling so you can fire it from the hip, but if you have enough strength you can lift it to your shoulder and fire it. The ammo comes in crappy boxes that make a bit of noise moving arround, often we replace it with one from Tactical Taylor. I think the PKM is a little closer to the M60 or the 240B which fires 7.62. That takes a lot of strength to lift and hold to your shoulder. In fact you try to take the tripod with you for that weapon, and a gunner assistant is cool.
BF2 is not the real world, I know that, although sometimes it still gets my heart going. It is nice to have a basic realism, we are not after all playing Unreal. The first time I played and faced a tank I ran. I also used to go prone whenever I heard a PKM so I had to alter that also.
Good playing.
Last edited by Harmony (2006-03-13 15:26:33)
Damn, after reading all this I have to admit that I really regret for not unlocking the PKM yet
Do the same thing if you want to combat them.
yeah. learn, adapt, overcome. there is nothing in the game that cannot be countered. what bugs me a little is that those with a PKM are still able to shoot with some accuracy while standing. firing a weapon of that size and weight from the shoulder should be nearly impossible._j5689_ wrote:
Do the same thing if you want to combat them.
I'll admit that I haven't fired the PKM or the SAW in real life, but I have some experience with the german MG2 ( which also uses 7.62 ), and I have yet to see any one fire that bitch from the shoulder or hip with decent accuracy. Too heavy, too much recoil.
Still, BF2 is just a game. And since both teams do have access to basically the same weaponry, the game is still balanced from a general point of view. There are differences betweeen the kits, but as some here have already argued, that's how it is supposed to be.
And as usual , good teamplay owns every kit...
the problem with the pkm is that it's one of the top weapons on the game due to it's power and ease of operation, and that's only a problem because it's changed the game dynamic and really altered infantry combat, i'd say for the worse. the games now are extremely static with one or two of the more experienced players attempting anything other than defensive camping, this sort self selected stand-off type playing has really hurt the pace of the game. games are slower and less interesting, intuition and intelligence don't detirmine victory as much because without a fluid and dynamic game there are less things to exploit. with ground pounding being less dynamic as it once was naturally armor is strengthened, and naturally better players who don't want to become engaged in "meat grinder" combat where two teams battle over land between a flag opt for vehicles which of course makes the problem even worse. if the pkm were halfway as powerful as it is now and as it was it'd be a great weapon and we'd have less people using it, we'd have fast paced games, and things would be much better.
it's also fair to credit the castration of the grenade launcher for slowing the game down as well - that weapon allowed a skilled player with some courage (don't tell me bad players could wreak havoc on enemy lines with a "n00b t00b" you'll only look stupid) to clear out enemy front line ground troops thus allowing for rapid advances against defenders. when it's easier to assault than offend, you have a fast paced game that encourages dynamic gameplay - when it's easier to defend than you have the opposite. they haven't seemed to have accomplished what they wanted to with the launcher in terms of bounce, but it's weakened blast radius and it's seemingly more clumsy operation make it far less desirable than an easy weapon like the PKM. in reality for this game to be great, and what the developer's probably logically intended, you need the assault class to be the easiest to use and the one that dominates overall in infantry combat (otherwise it's useless since it doesn't specialize in anything). but that is not the case, and the gameplay i believe is suffering as a result.
it's also fair to credit the castration of the grenade launcher for slowing the game down as well - that weapon allowed a skilled player with some courage (don't tell me bad players could wreak havoc on enemy lines with a "n00b t00b" you'll only look stupid) to clear out enemy front line ground troops thus allowing for rapid advances against defenders. when it's easier to assault than offend, you have a fast paced game that encourages dynamic gameplay - when it's easier to defend than you have the opposite. they haven't seemed to have accomplished what they wanted to with the launcher in terms of bounce, but it's weakened blast radius and it's seemingly more clumsy operation make it far less desirable than an easy weapon like the PKM. in reality for this game to be great, and what the developer's probably logically intended, you need the assault class to be the easiest to use and the one that dominates overall in infantry combat (otherwise it's useless since it doesn't specialize in anything). but that is not the case, and the gameplay i believe is suffering as a result.
Maybe I got you wrong but:AR|Headshasta wrote:
Before 1.2, you could jump down off of something go prone and fire. Granted your accuracy sucked, but you could still shoot. Now, whenever you jump over a wall, off a box, over a sandbag, whatever and go prone, you have to WAIT two seconds before you can start shooting, PERIOD. I always avoid jumping at all costs because I know that wait is coming if I hop just once. If you do experience this, you hold your breath for two seconds waiting for your gun to deploy hoping the guy shooting at you can't hit shit.
You cant fire any weapon while you are jumping....right..... But as soon as you hit the ground you can instantly go prone and you can instantly fire your PKM/assault rifle/whatever. There are no two seconds where you need to wait for your gun to deploy. That s just wrong......
There s only a delay if you switch from pistol to PKM. But there s no reason to take your pistol out when you got a PKM with unlimited ammo.
technically speaking the LMG's were created for a large fire powered fully automatic weapon.XstrangerdangerX wrote:
I had been hoping and praying that the support kit would be fixed with 1.21. It seems it's not the case.
And nor, on a wide search of these forums do I find many people who have a problem with it.
A support gun like the pkm is NOT an accurate weapon. It is meant to be used for suppressing fire, not sniping.
This whole prone and shoot thing is madness. Firstly, you shouldn't be able to accurately fire while going prone. Far too many times I'm firing a barrage of single rounds into this persons head while they drop and I end up dead along with the two squaddies trvelling with me.
It's insanely calibrated, and far too many people take advantage of this physics glitch. Just last night I played on a server where the entire USMC team seemed to be comprised of support with one or two medics.
Sure, as a support gunner you get some very easy points and extremely easy kills, but is it fair? It's like that teamgod SOB with his 1 kilometer knife kills.
Forgive my noobness but knowin how the weapon operates in the real world, my jaw drops when I get taken out for the fifth time by the one guy next to my spawn with a pkm. I haven't even got time to change to the grenade launcher (which I know will cure what ails him). I've only been playing for four days so maybe I'm just yet to create a strategy to deal with it>
If you can direct me to somewhere else this has been discussed or move my post, that would be great. But I really had believed it would be fixed with this patch as it's such a massive gameplay obstacle.
now standing up or crouching would hinder the aiming capabilities it has, going prone greatly increases its accuracy.
why is this you ask.
well for one, you whole body is behind it lessening deviation from kick back.
single shot or double tap firing method is thus more accurate.
now if you had it bolted down, imagine how much more accurate it would be.
im saying this because in my time with the armed forces i had the chance to play a bit with a few rifles and LMG's.
i agree, the PKM became the new noobtube/sniper rifle for BF2.
Glad to see some intelligent opinions on this forum (unlike the banned tool above).
Having now a greater understanding of how the weapons in the support kit work I am much happier to be killed by them with the ease they currently enjoy. This was never a complaint about getting frequently caned, it was a strong doubt that a weapon like that, even on burst fire, can be used as a sniping weapon.
I still feel its range is unreasonable, but as someone also said above, most weapons are able to be used at distance.
Anyway, one week in and I love the game regardless. Played in a really good squad yesterday, and of course due to that support I played my best game. Three medals in one round, excellent k/d ratio (for a new person) and by working with other objective oriented and tactically minded people, we carved up everything in sight.
Thanks all for your opinions, except for those people whose opinions don't count. Sadly, you don't know who you are.
Having now a greater understanding of how the weapons in the support kit work I am much happier to be killed by them with the ease they currently enjoy. This was never a complaint about getting frequently caned, it was a strong doubt that a weapon like that, even on burst fire, can be used as a sniping weapon.
I still feel its range is unreasonable, but as someone also said above, most weapons are able to be used at distance.
Anyway, one week in and I love the game regardless. Played in a really good squad yesterday, and of course due to that support I played my best game. Three medals in one round, excellent k/d ratio (for a new person) and by working with other objective oriented and tactically minded people, we carved up everything in sight.
Thanks all for your opinions, except for those people whose opinions don't count. Sadly, you don't know who you are.
Last edited by XstrangerdangerX (2006-03-14 04:40:56)
I have to admit it! never seen so much Support guys since i first started to play BF2. That's lame 'cause i like playing that kit and now it is overused.Umibozu_IT wrote:
look how many people in a round are support now. before 1.2 patch it was hard to find an ammo bag, now there's more ammo bags than first aid bags. i think that on a 32 people server at least 25 are running aorund with pkms. now that's what the game needed... snipers laying claymores, supports sniping down ppl and some engy just to spam mines everywhere. i swear it's a week i don't kill some specops or assault. they just vanished, i'm the only moron running around with ak101 or g3...
I don't agree tho concerning accuracy...that's not sooooo powerfull. just better! And i don't use my PKM for Sniping.
And about claymore, the trick don't work now with 1.21. only 2 at a time even if you got ammo bags everywhere!
I like the idea of people using other kit than just medic spec op and assault. We have to wait and see to look at the behavior after a couple of weeks
(i.e.: people where all snipers after 1.2 release, now it has lower a bit)
No, for reasons stated:XstrangerdangerX wrote:
The idea of suppressing fire is a spray of bullets (in a fairly wide arc) that force an enemy force to keep its head down.
...Harmony wrote:
In real life you hide when a saw is firing in your direction. You would never get up and run across an open area at a saw gunner. At a few feet a saw gunner does not need to aim, merely depress the trigger and wave in your general direction. You will be cut in half.
MooseRyder wrote:
if u supress fire on me im just gonna stand up and kill u. Seriously cmon now, its a game supressing fire its worthless in bf2 unless ur shooting with a chopper or a APC.
Admin or otherwise mate, you're a bit late for this party. It's already been explained.chuyskywalker wrote:
No, for reasons stated:XstrangerdangerX wrote:
The idea of suppressing fire is a spray of bullets (in a fairly wide arc) that force an enemy force to keep its head down....Harmony wrote:
In real life you hide when a saw is firing in your direction. You would never get up and run across an open area at a saw gunner. At a few feet a saw gunner does not need to aim, merely depress the trigger and wave in your general direction. You will be cut in half.MooseRyder wrote:
if u supress fire on me im just gonna stand up and kill u. Seriously cmon now, its a game supressing fire its worthless in bf2 unless ur shooting with a chopper or a APC.
I hate to tell you. But those big ass guns are accurate.
The bigger the gun the less diviation is has per shot (because of weight) at prone because the kick isn't screwing your aim.
The little sub-machinguns though, thats prime inaccuracy. The gun is so light it bounces uncontrolably.
The bigger the gun the less diviation is has per shot (because of weight) at prone because the kick isn't screwing your aim.
The little sub-machinguns though, thats prime inaccuracy. The gun is so light it bounces uncontrolably.
Gam Man if you were trying to argue that the PKM should stay as overpowered as it is atm ignoring that the game isnt balanced anymore only because it s accurate in real life too......just stop.
I have played only a couple of round with 1.21 so far, but I don't think I am getting killed by the PKM more often than before. I'll have to give it a week of playing or so before I can make a conclusive statement on this.
Its not the range which is the problem - the round which the PKM uses is very similar to the one use in the SVD which is of course very accurate and has a long range.XstrangerdangerX wrote:
I still feel its range is unreasonable, but as someone also said above, most weapons are able to be used at distance.
Perhaps the Support weapons should be a fraction less accurate, but not much - they should still have similar prone accuracy to the assault rifles, but much worse when standing
Well...
See weapon of Polish PKM Gunner
[img]http://www.el-mariachi.pl/TeamPKMgunner.jpg[/img]
See weapon of Polish PKM Gunner
[img]http://www.el-mariachi.pl/TeamPKMgunner.jpg[/img]
that piddly thing is a PKM?
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