they should have nuked the wal-mart as soon as the man got killed
think about it, those shoppers are probably all gonna breed and create even more cretins.
think about it, those shoppers are probably all gonna breed and create even more cretins.
No video on LiveLeak so I assume it is going to use as evidence in court.
retailers ask for it when they create an environment like this. Loss Provention and the management should of step-up to make sure crap does not get out of hand when the doors open by physically being by the entrance. Fook o well I lolz at the stupidity.
retailers ask for it when they create an environment like this. Loss Provention and the management should of step-up to make sure crap does not get out of hand when the doors open by physically being by the entrance. Fook o well I lolz at the stupidity.
So Walmart is at fault because they priced some items to move. Never mind the people broke the damn doors down as soon as the poor guy unlocked them. should taxpayers be held responsible for making sure the police are there to keep law and order everytime it is double coupon day at Kroger? I think it is high time we hold people accountable for hteir actions and not just wh ohappens to have money we can sue for.
Yeah but it's also a mob mentality.. It's human nature to go with the flo and it might make you do something you normally wouldn't, it's been studied and real..
The tax payers shouldn't pay for the police to be there, wall mart should.. If you have an event where you know alot of people are going to be at, you can actually rent uniformed police officers for a fee... As said by the girl with the broken arm in the video, all they had was 5 extra wall mart employee's who were wearing street clothing to tend to the crowd.. Also she stated that they were cursing and adding to the choas.. At which point they shouldn't have even opened the doors.
The tax payers shouldn't pay for the police to be there, wall mart should.. If you have an event where you know alot of people are going to be at, you can actually rent uniformed police officers for a fee... As said by the girl with the broken arm in the video, all they had was 5 extra wall mart employee's who were wearing street clothing to tend to the crowd.. Also she stated that they were cursing and adding to the choas.. At which point they shouldn't have even opened the doors.
The owners of the premises have a responsibility to operate a safe and well managed public store, do they not? It's a two way street lowing. The shoppers were idiots but the shop owners underestimated the scenario horribly. The shop owners shoud be punished through the normal health and safety channels and if lawsuits are given grounds for compensatory claims as a result of this well, that's just the way it is I suppose... I don't like the culture of sueing though.lowing wrote:
So Walmart is at fault because they priced some items to move. Never mind the people broke the damn doors down as soon as the poor guy unlocked them. should taxpayers be held responsible for making sure the police are there to keep law and order everytime it is double coupon day at Kroger? I think it is high time we hold people accountable for hteir actions and not just wh ohappens to have money we can sue for.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-12-03 14:15:05)
Sue walmart for having a sale, tax dollars for police for a double kroegers coupon? C'mon man that's not the case here. I agree with you that people should be held accountable for their actions. However like i said earlier, with the problems that have happened in the past I feel that the store should have taken the time to better prepare for the crowds they attempt to service. Walmart could have better staffed the entrance and let small groups of people in at a time. Yes I know they broke the damn doors off the hinges once opened but even if they didn't walmart was planning on unlocking the doors at letting the customers have at it anyway. The store created a situation that they knew would create a mob at the front door. A crowd of people is almost like a body of water when the people in the middle and the back are just pushing forward with everything they've got the schmucks up front either keep moving or get trampled. So the people who did the trampling may not be totally at fault. Walmart knew it would come to that and were unable to manage the customers and unable to protect their employees(and it wasn't the first time) and in that way I feel they are responsible. Maybe no one party between walmart, the crowd and the guard can be to blame alone for what happened but the fact remains that changing the way they do things even a little can prevent this from happening again. I guess that's the only thing that needs to come out of all this IMO.
Last edited by DrPeePeeFace (2008-12-03 14:17:47)
You guys admit that this was basically a wall of water that could not be stopped once it started, so how in the world would a few more employees stop a mob hell bent on breaking down the doors? Short of shooting them, how would you stop them? People that did not give a shit that they just stampeded a guy to death, you think, are gunna honor movie theater style rope mazes. Or I guess Walmart should have brought in 1,000,000 tons of concrete barriers to funnel people through.
I disagree, retailers should not be held responsible for peoples behavior. If you wanna do that, then retailers have every right to discriminate based on experience and instinct and gut feelings as to who they want to let in and who they want to keep out. All for YOUR safety of course.Braddock wrote:
The owners of the premises have a responsibility to operate a safe and well managed public store, do they not? It's a two way street lowing. The shoppers were idiots but the shop owners underestimated the scenario horribly. The shop owners shoud be punished through the normal health and safety channels and if lawsuits are given grounds for compensatory claims as a result of this well, that's just the way it is I suppose... I don't like the culture of sueing though.lowing wrote:
So Walmart is at fault because they priced some items to move. Never mind the people broke the damn doors down as soon as the poor guy unlocked them. should taxpayers be held responsible for making sure the police are there to keep law and order everytime it is double coupon day at Kroger? I think it is high time we hold people accountable for hteir actions and not just wh ohappens to have money we can sue for.
Last edited by lowing (2008-12-03 14:27:57)
Sue culture = fail
The people who trampled the guy are being sought out. They're not going to catch every person, though.
I'm sure the people who did it know who they are though, and will probably live with a guilty conscience their entire lives, even if they're not caught. It's not like any of them are bloodthirsty killers who wanted this guy dead.
I'm sure the people who did it know who they are though, and will probably live with a guilty conscience their entire lives, even if they're not caught. It's not like any of them are bloodthirsty killers who wanted this guy dead.
games=life for some lol
actually games>life for some. They rather tramp someone just to get a game.
actually games>life for some. They rather tramp someone just to get a game.
Nope, I do not think so. I think they couldn't give 2 shits about this guy, only about getting caught.Poseidon wrote:
The people who trampled the guy are being sought out. They're not going to catch every person, though.
I'm sure the people who did it know who they are though, and will probably live with a guilty conscience their entire lives, even if they're not caught. It's not like any of them are bloodthirsty killers who wanted this guy dead.
You really think so?lowing wrote:
Nope, I do not think so. I think they couldn't give 2 shits about this guy, only about getting caught.Poseidon wrote:
The people who trampled the guy are being sought out. They're not going to catch every person, though.
I'm sure the people who did it know who they are though, and will probably live with a guilty conscience their entire lives, even if they're not caught. It's not like any of them are bloodthirsty killers who wanted this guy dead.
I doubt most of them even knew they were stepping on a guy. It's 2000 fucking people trying to get through a doorway, I bet they couldn't even see their feet.
Sure, a small minority of them might be like that. The rest are probably going to feel like shit for the rest of their lives knowing they had a hand in killing a man. I tend to be a misanthrope a lot of the time, but even I can admit that I really doubt people here just don't give a shit about this guy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_genovesePoseidon wrote:
I really doubt people here just don't give a shit about this guy.
Yeah? So how many of these guilt ridden people have come forward so far?Poseidon wrote:
You really think so?lowing wrote:
Nope, I do not think so. I think they couldn't give 2 shits about this guy, only about getting caught.Poseidon wrote:
The people who trampled the guy are being sought out. They're not going to catch every person, though.
I'm sure the people who did it know who they are though, and will probably live with a guilty conscience their entire lives, even if they're not caught. It's not like any of them are bloodthirsty killers who wanted this guy dead.
I doubt most of them even knew they were stepping on a guy. It's 2000 fucking people trying to get through a doorway, I bet they couldn't even see their feet.
Sure, a small minority of them might be like that. The rest are probably going to feel like shit for the rest of their lives knowing they had a hand in killing a man. I tend to be a misanthrope a lot of the time, but even I can admit that I really doubt people here just don't give a shit about this guy.
You're missing the point.lowing wrote:
Yeah? So how many of these guilt ridden people have come forward so far?Poseidon wrote:
You really think so?lowing wrote:
Nope, I do not think so. I think they couldn't give 2 shits about this guy, only about getting caught.
I doubt most of them even knew they were stepping on a guy. It's 2000 fucking people trying to get through a doorway, I bet they couldn't even see their feet.
Sure, a small minority of them might be like that. The rest are probably going to feel like shit for the rest of their lives knowing they had a hand in killing a man. I tend to be a misanthrope a lot of the time, but even I can admit that I really doubt people here just don't give a shit about this guy.
Just because they don't come forward doesn't mean they're not going to feel like shit the rest of their lives.
Have employees/security guards outside to separate the crowd into smaller groups and then let them in a group at a time in the order they arrived. This way the people that waited the longest time still get to go in first. The method they use leaves people hurt or killed every year they use it, and they see no need to change the method?lowing wrote:
You guys admit that this was basically a wall of water that could not be stopped once it started, so how in the world would a few more employees stop a mob hell bent on breaking down the doors? Short of shooting them, how would you stop them? People that did not give a shit that they just stampeded a guy to death, you think, are gunna honor movie theater style rope mazes. Or I guess Walmart should have brought in 1,000,000 tons of concrete barriers to funnel people through.
I see, so they are gunna feel juuuuuuuuusssstttttttt terrible enough to say they feel guilty, but not quite enough to own up to anything......Got it.Poseidon wrote:
You're missing the point.lowing wrote:
Yeah? So how many of these guilt ridden people have come forward so far?Poseidon wrote:
You really think so?
I doubt most of them even knew they were stepping on a guy. It's 2000 fucking people trying to get through a doorway, I bet they couldn't even see their feet.
Sure, a small minority of them might be like that. The rest are probably going to feel like shit for the rest of their lives knowing they had a hand in killing a man. I tend to be a misanthrope a lot of the time, but even I can admit that I really doubt people here just don't give a shit about this guy.
Just because they don't come forward doesn't mean they're not going to feel like shit the rest of their lives.
The truth is they are gunna spend the next several months hoping no one points them out of the crowd.
I am sure 2000 people that would do what they did, would listen to a rent a cop and honor others who got their first. If these were the type of people we were talking about, we wouldn't need these types of measures in the first place. Ironic huh?DrPeePeeFace wrote:
Have employees/security guards outside to separate the crowd into smaller groups and then let them in a group at a time in the order they arrived. This way the people that waited the longest time still get to go in first. The method they use leaves people hurt or killed every year they use it, and they see no need to change the method?lowing wrote:
You guys admit that this was basically a wall of water that could not be stopped once it started, so how in the world would a few more employees stop a mob hell bent on breaking down the doors? Short of shooting them, how would you stop them? People that did not give a shit that they just stampeded a guy to death, you think, are gunna honor movie theater style rope mazes. Or I guess Walmart should have brought in 1,000,000 tons of concrete barriers to funnel people through.
Yeah lowing, I'm sure you'd instantly turn yourself into the police for having a part in the death of someone where you probably couldn't even control where you were moving.lowing wrote:
I see, so they are gunna feel juuuuuuuuusssstttttttt terrible enough to say they feel guilty, but not quite enough to own up to anything......Got it.Poseidon wrote:
You're missing the point.lowing wrote:
Yeah? So how many of these guilt ridden people have come forward so far?
Just because they don't come forward doesn't mean they're not going to feel like shit the rest of their lives.
The truth is they are gunna spend the next several months hoping no one points them out of the crowd.
Sure thing, Mr. Self-Accountability.
If you want me to be honest about it I will:Poseidon wrote:
Yeah lowing, I'm sure you'd instantly turn yourself into the police for having a part in the death of someone where you probably couldn't even control where you were moving.lowing wrote:
I see, so they are gunna feel juuuuuuuuusssstttttttt terrible enough to say they feel guilty, but not quite enough to own up to anything......Got it.Poseidon wrote:
You're missing the point.
Just because they don't come forward doesn't mean they're not going to feel like shit the rest of their lives.
The truth is they are gunna spend the next several months hoping no one points them out of the crowd.
Sure thing, Mr. Self-Accountability.
I never would have been part of such a crowd in the first place.
Neither would I (Cyber Monday ftw), but regardless of what the situation is, you'd never, ever turn yourself into the police for something like that. Saying you would is nothing but complete bullshit. Nobody would.lowing wrote:
If you want me to be honest about it I will:Poseidon wrote:
Yeah lowing, I'm sure you'd instantly turn yourself into the police for having a part in the death of someone where you probably couldn't even control where you were moving.lowing wrote:
I see, so they are gunna feel juuuuuuuuusssstttttttt terrible enough to say they feel guilty, but not quite enough to own up to anything......Got it.
The truth is they are gunna spend the next several months hoping no one points them out of the crowd.
Sure thing, Mr. Self-Accountability.
I never would have been part of such a crowd in the first place.
Now I agree with that, Let's say no one party can be blamed. We'll say that the people who actually trampled the guy were being pushed and shoved by the mob behind them against their will over the guard, and the guard did everything he was told/trained to do. Let's also say that the door manufacturer can't be blamed since the doors were never advertised as being able to take that kind of abuse and Walmart can't be blamed since they can't be held responsible for everyone in their stores. No amount of lawsuit money will bring the guard back to life so now what? All we can do is prevent it from happening again right? yes? no? anyone??lowing wrote:
The truth is they are gunna spend the next several months hoping no one points them out of the crowd.
Last edited by DrPeePeeFace (2008-12-03 15:00:44)
I can say I would never ever be in such a situation. You have no idea just how terribly honest I am, do not under estimate me. If I thought I caused someone's death, I would turn myself in.Poseidon wrote:
Neither would I (Cyber Monday ftw), but regardless of what the situation is, you'd never, ever turn yourself into the police for something like that. Saying you would is nothing but complete bullshit. Nobody would.lowing wrote:
If you want me to be honest about it I will:Poseidon wrote:
Yeah lowing, I'm sure you'd instantly turn yourself into the police for having a part in the death of someone where you probably couldn't even control where you were moving.
Sure thing, Mr. Self-Accountability.
I never would have been part of such a crowd in the first place.
We're talking about large numbers of excited people here lowing... would you advocate staging a music festival with no stewards or inadequate crowd supervision? I mean if we're talking about responsibility and all.lowing wrote:
I disagree, retailers should not be held responsible for peoples behavior. If you wanna do that, then retailers have every right to discriminate based on experience and instinct and gut feelings as to who they want to let in and who they want to keep out. All for YOUR safety of course.Braddock wrote:
The owners of the premises have a responsibility to operate a safe and well managed public store, do they not? It's a two way street lowing. The shoppers were idiots but the shop owners underestimated the scenario horribly. The shop owners shoud be punished through the normal health and safety channels and if lawsuits are given grounds for compensatory claims as a result of this well, that's just the way it is I suppose... I don't like the culture of sueing though.lowing wrote:
So Walmart is at fault because they priced some items to move. Never mind the people broke the damn doors down as soon as the poor guy unlocked them. should taxpayers be held responsible for making sure the police are there to keep law and order everytime it is double coupon day at Kroger? I think it is high time we hold people accountable for hteir actions and not just wh ohappens to have money we can sue for.