No they are not, they are also libertarian qualities. Individualism and individual achievement and reward for it, is an ideology that is not conductive to a liberal belief system. We must all share and be equal do we not?Reciprocity wrote:
yes, "working hard and believing in yourself" are exclusively republican qualities. blow it out your fucking ass.lowing wrote:
Yer right, "work hard and believe in yourself", What dribble!!!! Why the hell should you od that when we got Obama to take care of us? No wonder those words are so offensive to liberal-socialistsTheAussieReaper wrote:
Sounds exactly like what lowing talks about. A true Republican if ever I knew one.
I met Boehner once here in Troy while he was watching a parade. I didn't actually talk to him but I watched him as my friend Gretchen was introduced to him because she was in love with the guy. He just said hello and blew her off in a way that left me seeing him as a cold, heartless person. Ever since I've never really cared much for the guy. Maybe I just saw it wrong or the guy had a lot on his mind. Was a very bad first impression though.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Wow. Another Republican bashing thread. Let's do some debate and serious talk on this...san4 wrote:
The reason I love this quote is that he's so obviously full of shit.san4 wrote:
I love this.
He's so full of shit because his Dad ran a bar? Or is he full of shit because he from a large family? Or is he full of shit because he grew up outside of Cincinnati? Or is he full of shit for looking forward to leading the Republican party? Or is he full of shit he believes that if you work hard and believe in yourself there is nothing you can't achieve? Or is it because he likened it to the Republican Party?
I'll choose the Bold face... Tough for you to Monica here, but working hard and being successful is part of the Republican philosophy. The only thing full of shit here is your post.
I don't know what tangent you two are going off on, I was merely noting that his highlighted comment reflects what lowing has been saying for a long time now, about individual drive and motivation.lowing wrote:
No they are not, they are also libertarian qualities. Individualism and individual achievement and reward for it, is an ideology that is not conductive to a liberal belief system. We must all share and be equal do we not?Reciprocity wrote:
yes, "working hard and believing in yourself" are exclusively republican qualities. blow it out your fucking ass.lowing wrote:
Yer right, "work hard and believe in yourself", What dribble!!!! Why the hell should you od that when we got Obama to take care of us? No wonder those words are so offensive to liberal-socialists
Don't see the connection between this and modern Republicanism TBHI believe that if you work hard and believe in yourself, there is nothing you can't achieve.
freedom, opportunity, security and individual liberty
Actually they seem mutually exclusive.
Fuck Israel
Once again, you maintain a total and utter inability to get the point.lowing wrote:
No they are not, they are also libertarian qualities. Individualism and individual achievement and reward for it, is an ideology that is not conductive to a liberal belief system. We must all share and be equal do we not?Reciprocity wrote:
yes, "working hard and believing in yourself" are exclusively republican qualities. blow it out your fucking ass.lowing wrote:
Yer right, "work hard and believe in yourself", What dribble!!!! Why the hell should you od that when we got Obama to take care of us? No wonder those words are so offensive to liberal-socialists
We know that the individual is the person who has the responsibility for his or her own life and future. We know that in 99.9999% of cases, reward won't come without hard work.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying that while achievement is a direct result of hard work, hard work does not always result in achievement.
There are countless example to illustrate this.
Last edited by Spark (2008-11-21 00:08:06)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Bullshit: Hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire will always net achievement.Spark wrote:
Once again, you maintain a total and utter inability to get the point.lowing wrote:
No they are not, they are also libertarian qualities. Individualism and individual achievement and reward for it, is an ideology that is not conductive to a liberal belief system. We must all share and be equal do we not?Reciprocity wrote:
yes, "working hard and believing in yourself" are exclusively republican qualities. blow it out your fucking ass.
We know that the individual is the person who has the responsibility for his or her own life and future. We know that in 99.9999% of cases, reward won't come without hard work.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying that while achievement is a direct result of hard work, hard work does not always result in achievement.
There are countless example to illustrate this.
If you understand that personal responsibility is the key, then stop trying to argue all of your bullshit excuses for the poor being poor is a result of the man keeping them down or trying as they might, they just are "unlucky"
Again, please explain why YOU are not CEO of a Fortune 500 company.Lowing wrote:
Bullshit: Hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire will always net achievement.
A black man can become President, and you're mechanic? How so?
Fuck Israel
That's made me all teary-eyed... you were all wrong, get rid of Obama, get those lovely, cuddly Republicans back in.san4 wrote:
I love this.John Boehner, House Republican leader wrote:
Republicans' Road Back
By John Boehner
Wash. Post, Friday, November 7, 2008; Page A19
I wasn't born a Republican. I grew up outside Cincinnati as one of 12 children. Our dad ran a bar. I became a Republican because I believe that if you work hard and believe in yourself, there is nothing you can't achieve. That's the American dream. And I look forward to leading Republicans in fighting for it. If we return to our roots, to our belief in freedom, opportunity, security and individual liberty, our party will come back stronger than ever.
Republicanism = "I've got mine, don't worry about his... in fact if I can get away with royally fucking 'him' in order to get more of mine then all the better"
In an ideal world you are right lowing, those qualities and attributes would return positive results... sadly this is not an ideal world. You can ignore the fact that we don't have control over single every factor in life but the fact is we don't.lowing wrote:
Bullshit: Hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire will always net achievement.
If you understand that personal responsibility is the key, then stop trying to argue all of your bullshit excuses for the poor being poor is a result of the man keeping them down or trying as they might, they just are "unlucky"
On the issue of luck and social factors one can look at the other side of the coin... what happens when someone lacks hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire but has the benefit of luck and a silver spoon background? George W. Bush lived a reckless existence, consistently failed in numerous business ventures on the back of his Daddy's name and didn't exactly put in much overtime during his Presidency but he still held the top position in the land for eight years... and you're trying to say that life is fair?
Basically you can lack hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire and still possibly do well in life if you have the requisite social background whereas on the other hand you can have all the hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire in the world but still maybe fall short as a result of your social background providing obstacles beyond your control.
I'm just saying lowing, there is no steadfast "rule"... life rarely deals in absolutes.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-11-21 06:18:13)
I am an aircraft mechanic because that is what I wanted to be short of being a professional pilot.Dilbert_X wrote:
Again, please explain why YOU are not CEO of a Fortune 500 company.Lowing wrote:
Bullshit: Hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire will always net achievement.
A black man can become President, and you're mechanic? How so?
Now, COULD I have been a professional pilot? Yup, I could have if I worked hard enough to achieve that goal. As it sits, I did not. It is no ones fault but my own.
Contrary to popular believe, you do not just simply go down to the un-employment office and sign up for aircraft mechanic. There is a 2 year school and/or 36 months of apprenticeship. Passing this only allows you permission to be able to take the written exam. Only after you pass the written exam, you must endure (sometimes it can be days of) oral and practical evaluation.
Never said life was fair Braddock, however, that is not an excuse for your own personal failure and creates an ability to justify blaming someone else for it.Braddock wrote:
In an ideal world you are right lowing, those qualities and attributes would return positive results... sadly this is not an ideal world. You can ignore the fact that we don't have control over single every factor in life but the fact is we don't.lowing wrote:
Bullshit: Hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire will always net achievement.
If you understand that personal responsibility is the key, then stop trying to argue all of your bullshit excuses for the poor being poor is a result of the man keeping them down or trying as they might, they just are "unlucky"
On the issue of luck and social factors one can look at the other side of the coin... what happens when someone lacks hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire but has the benefit of luck and a silver spoon background? George W. Bush lived a reckless existence, consistently failed in numerous business ventures on the back of his Daddy's name and didn't exactly put in much overtime during his Presidency but he still held the top position in the land for eight years... and you're trying to say that life is fair?
Basically you can lack hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire and still possibly do well in life if you have the requisite social background whereas on the other hand you can have all the hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire in the world but still maybe fall short as a result of your social background providing obstacles beyond your control.
I'm just saying lowing, there is no steadfast "rule"... life rarely deals in absolutes.
i can see why you are notDilbert_X wrote:
Again, please explain why YOU are not CEO of a Fortune 500 company.
/uninspired
But look at it this way.... a very poor (insert racial minority) man could work very hard, be ambitious and have great motivation... and he might become very successful relative to his previous position. a rich (insert racial majority) would do the same amount of hard work have the same ambition and be just as motivated and he will be very successful relative to his previous position.... yet his previous position was alot higher then the first guy... so he will be more successful... not because of any of his own doing... but because of his situation.lowing wrote:
Never said life was fair Braddock, however, that is not an excuse for your own personal failure and creates an ability to justify blaming someone else for it.Braddock wrote:
In an ideal world you are right lowing, those qualities and attributes would return positive results... sadly this is not an ideal world. You can ignore the fact that we don't have control over single every factor in life but the fact is we don't.lowing wrote:
Bullshit: Hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire will always net achievement.
If you understand that personal responsibility is the key, then stop trying to argue all of your bullshit excuses for the poor being poor is a result of the man keeping them down or trying as they might, they just are "unlucky"
On the issue of luck and social factors one can look at the other side of the coin... what happens when someone lacks hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire but has the benefit of luck and a silver spoon background? George W. Bush lived a reckless existence, consistently failed in numerous business ventures on the back of his Daddy's name and didn't exactly put in much overtime during his Presidency but he still held the top position in the land for eight years... and you're trying to say that life is fair?
Basically you can lack hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire and still possibly do well in life if you have the requisite social background whereas on the other hand you can have all the hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire in the world but still maybe fall short as a result of your social background providing obstacles beyond your control.
I'm just saying lowing, there is no steadfast "rule"... life rarely deals in absolutes.
wow.... i really cant convey what i mean properly lol
How much hard work has Paris Hilton done, pray?lowing wrote:
Bullshit: Hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire will always net achievement.Spark wrote:
Once again, you maintain a total and utter inability to get the point.lowing wrote:
No they are not, they are also libertarian qualities. Individualism and individual achievement and reward for it, is an ideology that is not conductive to a liberal belief system. We must all share and be equal do we not?
We know that the individual is the person who has the responsibility for his or her own life and future. We know that in 99.9999% of cases, reward won't come without hard work.
That's not what we're saying. We're saying that while achievement is a direct result of hard work, hard work does not always result in achievement.
There are countless example to illustrate this.
If you understand that personal responsibility is the key, then stop trying to argue all of your bullshit excuses for the poor being poor is a result of the man keeping them down or trying as they might, they just are "unlucky"
Plus, we are not excusing anything. Being unlucky, uneducated, or oppressed does not excuse anyone from doing what you said.
It's just that, quite simply, in a competitive world, two people with the same above apply for a job, but the one with a better education (due to a better upbringing) will always get it. That's the way it works in the world.
So what we want is for personal responsibility to be the only prerequisite for success, because right now, it isn't.
Last edited by Spark (2008-11-21 16:21:07)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
thats stupidSpark wrote:
How much hard work has Paris Hilton done, pray?
Also when it comes to something like a pilot, even if you work hard enough you can still be screwed over by your eyesight which you don't really have any control overlowing wrote:
I am an aircraft mechanic because that is what I wanted to be short of being a professional pilot.Dilbert_X wrote:
Again, please explain why YOU are not CEO of a Fortune 500 company.Lowing wrote:
Bullshit: Hardwork, ambition, motivation and desire will always net achievement.
A black man can become President, and you're mechanic? How so?
Now, COULD I have been a professional pilot? Yup, I could have if I worked hard enough to achieve that goal. As it sits, I did not. It is no ones fault but my own.
Contrary to popular believe, you do not just simply go down to the un-employment office and sign up for aircraft mechanic. There is a 2 year school and/or 36 months of apprenticeship. Passing this only allows you permission to be able to take the written exam. Only after you pass the written exam, you must endure (sometimes it can be days of) oral and practical evaluation.
There are lots of factors in life that determine your success, simply working hard is just one of them. Infact from what I've seen it's not even a big factor at that.
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2008-11-21 16:26:42)
Exactly what I was going to say. Not to mention that it may not be easy to get a job even after you do all your training (as a pilot or mechanic or anything else), and once you get a job you can be the best mechanic you can be but still get laid off because the economy as a whole is collapsing.Mekstizzle wrote:
Also when it comes to something like a pilot, even if you work hard enough you can still be screwed over by your eyesight which you don't really have any control overlowing wrote:
I am an aircraft mechanic because that is what I wanted to be short of being a professional pilot.Dilbert_X wrote:
Again, please explain why YOU are not CEO of a Fortune 500 company.
A black man can become President, and you're mechanic? How so?
Now, COULD I have been a professional pilot? Yup, I could have if I worked hard enough to achieve that goal. As it sits, I did not. It is no ones fault but my own.
Contrary to popular believe, you do not just simply go down to the un-employment office and sign up for aircraft mechanic. There is a 2 year school and/or 36 months of apprenticeship. Passing this only allows you permission to be able to take the written exam. Only after you pass the written exam, you must endure (sometimes it can be days of) oral and practical evaluation.
There are lots of factors in life that determine your success, simply working hard is just one of them. Infact from what I've seen it's not even a big factor at that.
Work hard, believe in yourself and you can still end up unemployed because of factors beyond your control. Working hard is important, but it's also important to have a government that can prevent the world from turning your hard work into shit.
Well, I have been laid off, but I always had a job when I wanted one. It is called being marketable.san4 wrote:
Exactly what I was going to say. Not to mention that it may not be easy to get a job even after you do all your training (as a pilot or mechanic or anything else), and once you get a job you can be the best mechanic you can be but still get laid off because the economy as a whole is collapsing.Mekstizzle wrote:
Also when it comes to something like a pilot, even if you work hard enough you can still be screwed over by your eyesight which you don't really have any control overlowing wrote:
I am an aircraft mechanic because that is what I wanted to be short of being a professional pilot.
Now, COULD I have been a professional pilot? Yup, I could have if I worked hard enough to achieve that goal. As it sits, I did not. It is no ones fault but my own.
Contrary to popular believe, you do not just simply go down to the un-employment office and sign up for aircraft mechanic. There is a 2 year school and/or 36 months of apprenticeship. Passing this only allows you permission to be able to take the written exam. Only after you pass the written exam, you must endure (sometimes it can be days of) oral and practical evaluation.
There are lots of factors in life that determine your success, simply working hard is just one of them. Infact from what I've seen it's not even a big factor at that.
Work hard, believe in yourself and you can still end up unemployed because of factors beyond your control. Working hard is important, but it's also important to have a government that can prevent the world from turning your hard work into shit.
I think the Republicans would lose their few remaining seats in congress if they went around to laid off GM and Citigroup workers and told them it's their fault they are unemployed.lowing wrote:
Well, I have been laid off, but I always had a job when I wanted one. It is called being marketable.san4 wrote:
Exactly what I was going to say. Not to mention that it may not be easy to get a job even after you do all your training (as a pilot or mechanic or anything else), and once you get a job you can be the best mechanic you can be but still get laid off because the economy as a whole is collapsing.Mekstizzle wrote:
Also when it comes to something like a pilot, even if you work hard enough you can still be screwed over by your eyesight which you don't really have any control over
There are lots of factors in life that determine your success, simply working hard is just one of them. Infact from what I've seen it's not even a big factor at that.
Work hard, believe in yourself and you can still end up unemployed because of factors beyond your control. Working hard is important, but it's also important to have a government that can prevent the world from turning your hard work into shit.
Blame Union, not the R's. Blame the business not the political party... Or better yet, the government could run it all.san4 wrote:
I think the Republicans would lose their few remaining seats in congress if they went around to laid off GM and Citigroup workers and told them it's their fault they are unemployed.lowing wrote:
Well, I have been laid off, but I always had a job when I wanted one. It is called being marketable.san4 wrote:
Exactly what I was going to say. Not to mention that it may not be easy to get a job even after you do all your training (as a pilot or mechanic or anything else), and once you get a job you can be the best mechanic you can be but still get laid off because the economy as a whole is collapsing.
Work hard, believe in yourself and you can still end up unemployed because of factors beyond your control. Working hard is important, but it's also important to have a government that can prevent the world from turning your hard work into shit.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
I'm not blaming the R's for layoffs. Just saying they're done for if they blame the individuals who got laid off. Which is what Boehner (and lowing) want to do.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Blame Union, not the R's. Blame the business not the political party... Or better yet, the government could run it all.san4 wrote:
I think the Republicans would lose their few remaining seats in congress if they went around to laid off GM and Citigroup workers and told them it's their fault they are unemployed.lowing wrote:
Well, I have been laid off, but I always had a job when I wanted one. It is called being marketable.
Nope, what I blame on the companies are giving into rediculous union demands. What I blame unions for is demanding rediculous compensation for unskilled labor by threatening job actions if they do not comply. This forcing companies t oseek labor elsewhere, and rightfully so.san4 wrote:
I'm not blaming the R's for layoffs. Just saying they're done for if they blame the individuals who got laid off. Which is what Boehner (and lowing) want to do.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Blame Union, not the R's. Blame the business not the political party... Or better yet, the government could run it all.san4 wrote:
I think the Republicans would lose their few remaining seats in congress if they went around to laid off GM and Citigroup workers and told them it's their fault they are unemployed.
But u also said its a persons fault for not being successful.... because that means they must not have put in the effort/hard work.lowing wrote:
Nope, what I blame on the companies are giving into rediculous union demands. What I blame unions for is demanding rediculous compensation for unskilled labor by threatening job actions if they do not comply. This forcing companies t oseek labor elsewhere, and rightfully so.san4 wrote:
I'm not blaming the R's for layoffs. Just saying they're done for if they blame the individuals who got laid off. Which is what Boehner (and lowing) want to do.DBBrinson1 wrote:
Blame Union, not the R's. Blame the business not the political party... Or better yet, the government could run it all.
are all the employees being fired lazy, ungrateful, unmotivated, unsuccessful people?
Never said that, but if you have spent your life peeling tape off of a car for middle class status, do not be surprised and pissed off when your bubble bursts and you find no else gives a fuck about tape peeling skills in the marketplace. Do not blame anyone else that you did not bother to make yourself really marketable and decided to rely on your company hand holding you through life instead of relying on yourself.Little BaBy JESUS wrote:
But u also said its a persons fault for not being successful.... because that means they must not have put in the effort/hard work.lowing wrote:
Nope, what I blame on the companies are giving into rediculous union demands. What I blame unions for is demanding rediculous compensation for unskilled labor by threatening job actions if they do not comply. This forcing companies t oseek labor elsewhere, and rightfully so.san4 wrote:
I'm not blaming the R's for layoffs. Just saying they're done for if they blame the individuals who got laid off. Which is what Boehner (and lowing) want to do.
are all the employees being fired lazy, ungrateful, unmotivated, unsuccessful people?