Its not fiction.
Fuck Israel
Yes, it is. If something didn't really happen...it's fiction.Dilbert_X wrote:
Its not fiction.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Fiction
1. An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
1. An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________ 
Isn't that basically what I said?Mutantsteak wrote:
Fiction
1. An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
So 250,000 people, according to most on this forum, are responsible for the collapse of the Detroit 3.
People that make, on average, $28.00 dollars an hour. ON AVERAGE. Some make more, some make less.
NOT $70 or 60 or even 40 (would like to know where those numbers came from)
For every one of "Those people" there are 10 to 12 that make, sub-assemble or transport parts in support of them.
Some have the number around 2.5 million people in support, some have it as 2% of American workers.
So lowing, just to get your mad off at ANY union, you'll dump a small city's worth out of work?
As I have told you before lowing:
Labor is 7% of the WHOLESALE cost of a vehicles price.
Management costs 9% for the WHOLESALE.
Double the wholesale and you get a ruff retail price. Add transport cost, PDI and Dealer markup and you get the STICKER price.
Who cost's more, me at (now) $28.00 an hour or one of my V.P.s at 25 mill a quarter pulse a 5 mill bonus while the corp.. go's bust?
As has been said here, the Japanese corps have a higher quality rate.
They give a bonus for it to their managers. Detroit want numbers, above anything else and give bonus for it.
How far will they go? I have seen a heart attack victim dragged off to clear the line so it could start moving again.
Detroit DO NOT want to build small cars. The profits are too small. ( I don't agree with them)
They DO NOT want to build hybrids, not enough after market sales.
They DO NOT want to build electric, again, not enough after market and not reliable in cold weather areas.
One of the big debates around the plant was the CRX and all the after market that was available and why couldn't we do the same type vehicle. ( A mass produced, cheap small sports car)
The reason.......Corp didn't want to get sued for making a car that can be turned into a street racer.
Thanks legal dept. Rolls eyes
People that make, on average, $28.00 dollars an hour. ON AVERAGE. Some make more, some make less.
NOT $70 or 60 or even 40 (would like to know where those numbers came from)
For every one of "Those people" there are 10 to 12 that make, sub-assemble or transport parts in support of them.
Some have the number around 2.5 million people in support, some have it as 2% of American workers.
So lowing, just to get your mad off at ANY union, you'll dump a small city's worth out of work?
As I have told you before lowing:
Labor is 7% of the WHOLESALE cost of a vehicles price.
Management costs 9% for the WHOLESALE.
Double the wholesale and you get a ruff retail price. Add transport cost, PDI and Dealer markup and you get the STICKER price.
Who cost's more, me at (now) $28.00 an hour or one of my V.P.s at 25 mill a quarter pulse a 5 mill bonus while the corp.. go's bust?
As has been said here, the Japanese corps have a higher quality rate.
They give a bonus for it to their managers. Detroit want numbers, above anything else and give bonus for it.
How far will they go? I have seen a heart attack victim dragged off to clear the line so it could start moving again.
Detroit DO NOT want to build small cars. The profits are too small. ( I don't agree with them)
They DO NOT want to build hybrids, not enough after market sales.
They DO NOT want to build electric, again, not enough after market and not reliable in cold weather areas.
One of the big debates around the plant was the CRX and all the after market that was available and why couldn't we do the same type vehicle. ( A mass produced, cheap small sports car)
The reason.......Corp didn't want to get sued for making a car that can be turned into a street racer.
Thanks legal dept. Rolls eyes
I never said the reason for this was Unions alone. Your corrupt union, is certainly a part of the problem as a whole. Your union artifically inflating the value of an employees worth to a company is the reason why your company is outsourcing. If you think peeling tape off of a car, or installing a door seal is skill and education enough to warrant 70,000 a year, then you will never understand why you are losing jobs to people who are paid a little more in line with their skill education and knowledge in short, their worth.Karbin wrote:
So 250,000 people, according to most on this forum, are responsible for the collapse of the Detroit 3.
People that make, on average, $28.00 dollars an hour. ON AVERAGE. Some make more, some make less.
NOT $70 or 60 or even 40 (would like to know where those numbers came from)
For every one of "Those people" there are 10 to 12 that make, sub-assemble or transport parts in support of them.
Some have the number around 2.5 million people in support, some have it as 2% of American workers.
So lowing, just to get your mad off at ANY union, you'll dump a small city's worth out of work?
As I have told you before lowing:
Labor is 7% of the WHOLESALE cost of a vehicles price.
Management costs 9% for the WHOLESALE.
Double the wholesale and you get a ruff retail price. Add transport cost, PDI and Dealer markup and you get the STICKER price.
Who cost's more, me at (now) $28.00 an hour or one of my V.P.s at 25 mill a quarter pulse a 5 mill bonus while the corp.. go's bust?
As has been said here, the Japanese corps have a higher quality rate.
They give a bonus for it to their managers. Detroit want numbers, above anything else and give bonus for it.
How far will they go? I have seen a heart attack victim dragged off to clear the line so it could start moving again.
Detroit DO NOT want to build small cars. The profits are too small. ( I don't agree with them)
They DO NOT want to build hybrids, not enough after market sales.
They DO NOT want to build electric, again, not enough after market and not reliable in cold weather areas.
One of the big debates around the plant was the CRX and all the after market that was available and why couldn't we do the same type vehicle. ( A mass produced, cheap small sports car)
The reason.......Corp didn't want to get sued for making a car that can be turned into a street racer.
Thanks legal dept. Rolls eyes
As far as a small city being out of work. When a company builds junk, ( by truth or reputation) that will not sell, and pays employees 4 times their actual worth to do it, was it really so hard to see it coming? I will also add, I do not remember the UAW giving much of a shit when I or the other 75,000 airline employees lost our jobs. Or do people in the UAW shop for the most expensive airline ticket when they travel? Ya know, to make sure I get paid.
True... we do tend to agree on certain market principles.lowing wrote:
c'mon now, we have agreed before..........................haven't we?Turquoise wrote:
For once, lowing and I agree on something.lowing wrote:
what will happen? Someone else will come in and take their places as the "big 3". No big deal.
In the airline industry the big 3 used to be TWA, Pan AM, and Eastern. All are gone now and guess what, the world didn't explode.
Let the market clear itself, goddamnit.
I am NOT a member of the UAW.lowing wrote:
I never said the reason for this was Unions alone. Your corrupt union, is certainly a part of the problem as a whole. Your union artifically inflating the value of an employees worth to a company is the reason why your company is outsourcing. If you think peeling tape off of a car, or installing a door seal is skill and education enough to warrant 70,000 a year, then you will never understand why you are losing jobs to people who are paid a little more in line with their skill education and knowledge in short, their worth.Karbin wrote:
So 250,000 people, according to most on this forum, are responsible for the collapse of the Detroit 3.
People that make, on average, $28.00 dollars an hour. ON AVERAGE. Some make more, some make less.
NOT $70 or 60 or even 40 (would like to know where those numbers came from)
For every one of "Those people" there are 10 to 12 that make, sub-assemble or transport parts in support of them.
Some have the number around 2.5 million people in support, some have it as 2% of American workers.
So lowing, just to get your mad off at ANY union, you'll dump a small city's worth out of work?
As I have told you before lowing:
Labor is 7% of the WHOLESALE cost of a vehicles price.
Management costs 9% for the WHOLESALE.
Double the wholesale and you get a ruff retail price. Add transport cost, PDI and Dealer markup and you get the STICKER price.
Who cost's more, me at (now) $28.00 an hour or one of my V.P.s at 25 mill a quarter pulse a 5 mill bonus while the corp.. go's bust?
As has been said here, the Japanese corps have a higher quality rate.
They give a bonus for it to their managers. Detroit want numbers, above anything else and give bonus for it.
How far will they go? I have seen a heart attack victim dragged off to clear the line so it could start moving again.
Detroit DO NOT want to build small cars. The profits are too small. ( I don't agree with them)
They DO NOT want to build hybrids, not enough after market sales.
They DO NOT want to build electric, again, not enough after market and not reliable in cold weather areas.
One of the big debates around the plant was the CRX and all the after market that was available and why couldn't we do the same type vehicle. ( A mass produced, cheap small sports car)
The reason.......Corp didn't want to get sued for making a car that can be turned into a street racer.
Thanks legal dept. Rolls eyes
As far as a small city being out of work. When a company builds junk, ( by truth or reputation) that will not sell, and pays employees 4 times their actual worth to do it, was it really so hard to see it coming? I will also add, I do not remember the UAW giving much of a shit when I or the other 75,000 airline employees lost our jobs. Or do people in the UAW shop for the most expensive airline ticket when they travel? Ya know, to make sure I get paid.
I have NEVER been a member of the UAW.
And ,God willing and the river don't rise, I will NEVER be a member of the UAW.
Mine has, among others, auto workers, flight attendants and aircraft mechanics.
You come off as believing that CEO's etc, should be paid "What the market will bear". and that you should be paid what your market will bear.
But, when labor organizes to do the same, you yell and scream about "How unfair" it is. How it drives down your value.
So.....
I'll post a about all you lazy, can't read, aircraft mechanics.
All true stories that reflect you and your market worth.
Too lazy to get a light and read the maintenance book on a aircraft, guessed the screw size to hold in a flight deck window.
Pilot blown out at ten g feet, held in by flight engineer. Pilot lives...just.
Engine replaced, bracket not installed. Pipe rubs against fuel line. Fuel line breaks over the Atlantic. Aircraft makes a no power landing in the Azores. No fuel in the tanks.
Maintenance check misses a crack in the side of aircraft. At altitude crack runs across fuselage. 20 feet of roof peels off.
Should I go on?
Do you like the mistakes or actions of the few being cast on all mechanics?
Are you getting my point yet?
That number isn't just wages, but wages+all benefits. So to figure the true cost an employee has on the company you have to look at insurance, vacation time, pensions and/or 401K contribution matches, plus any of the other bennies that you get.Karbin wrote:
So 250,000 people, according to most on this forum, are responsible for the collapse of the Detroit 3.
People that make, on average, $28.00 dollars an hour. ON AVERAGE. Some make more, some make less.
NOT $70 or 60 or even 40 (would like to know where those numbers came from)
You have to realize that much of GMs current expenses are retirees that worked for the company when retirement meant pensions and insurance.
Unfortunately, way to many think that it's "Take home pay".Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
That number isn't just wages, but wages+all benefits. So to figure the true cost an employee has on the company you have to look at insurance, vacation time, pensions and/or 401K contribution matches, plus any of the other bennies that you get.Karbin wrote:
So 250,000 people, according to most on this forum, are responsible for the collapse of the Detroit 3.
People that make, on average, $28.00 dollars an hour. ON AVERAGE. Some make more, some make less.
NOT $70 or 60 or even 40 (would like to know where those numbers came from)
You have to realize that much of GMs current expenses are retirees that worked for the company when retirement meant pensions and insurance.
To add to that, a 40 hour week will NOT total 70k a year.
Here, the law is over time at 46 hours.
Contract is over time at over 40 hours or over 8 hours a shift.
As well the company can make a Saturday as mandatory.
Any chance you are gunna argue against what I actually posted? For example, why I am supposed to give a shit about your job, when you are not shopping for the most expensive airline tickets to make sure I keep mine.Karbin wrote:
I am NOT a member of the UAW.lowing wrote:
I never said the reason for this was Unions alone. Your corrupt union, is certainly a part of the problem as a whole. Your union artifically inflating the value of an employees worth to a company is the reason why your company is outsourcing. If you think peeling tape off of a car, or installing a door seal is skill and education enough to warrant 70,000 a year, then you will never understand why you are losing jobs to people who are paid a little more in line with their skill education and knowledge in short, their worth.Karbin wrote:
So 250,000 people, according to most on this forum, are responsible for the collapse of the Detroit 3.
People that make, on average, $28.00 dollars an hour. ON AVERAGE. Some make more, some make less.
NOT $70 or 60 or even 40 (would like to know where those numbers came from)
For every one of "Those people" there are 10 to 12 that make, sub-assemble or transport parts in support of them.
Some have the number around 2.5 million people in support, some have it as 2% of American workers.
So lowing, just to get your mad off at ANY union, you'll dump a small city's worth out of work?
As I have told you before lowing:
Labor is 7% of the WHOLESALE cost of a vehicles price.
Management costs 9% for the WHOLESALE.
Double the wholesale and you get a ruff retail price. Add transport cost, PDI and Dealer markup and you get the STICKER price.
Who cost's more, me at (now) $28.00 an hour or one of my V.P.s at 25 mill a quarter pulse a 5 mill bonus while the corp.. go's bust?
As has been said here, the Japanese corps have a higher quality rate.
They give a bonus for it to their managers. Detroit want numbers, above anything else and give bonus for it.
How far will they go? I have seen a heart attack victim dragged off to clear the line so it could start moving again.
Detroit DO NOT want to build small cars. The profits are too small. ( I don't agree with them)
They DO NOT want to build hybrids, not enough after market sales.
They DO NOT want to build electric, again, not enough after market and not reliable in cold weather areas.
One of the big debates around the plant was the CRX and all the after market that was available and why couldn't we do the same type vehicle. ( A mass produced, cheap small sports car)
The reason.......Corp didn't want to get sued for making a car that can be turned into a street racer.
Thanks legal dept. Rolls eyes
As far as a small city being out of work. When a company builds junk, ( by truth or reputation) that will not sell, and pays employees 4 times their actual worth to do it, was it really so hard to see it coming? I will also add, I do not remember the UAW giving much of a shit when I or the other 75,000 airline employees lost our jobs. Or do people in the UAW shop for the most expensive airline ticket when they travel? Ya know, to make sure I get paid.
I have NEVER been a member of the UAW.
And ,God willing and the river don't rise, I will NEVER be a member of the UAW.
Mine has, among others, auto workers, flight attendants and aircraft mechanics.
You come off as believing that CEO's etc, should be paid "What the market will bear". and that you should be paid what your market will bear.
But, when labor organizes to do the same, you yell and scream about "How unfair" it is. How it drives down your value.
So.....
I'll post a about all you lazy, can't read, aircraft mechanics.
All true stories that reflect you and your market worth.
Too lazy to get a light and read the maintenance book on a aircraft, guessed the screw size to hold in a flight deck window.
Pilot blown out at ten g feet, held in by flight engineer. Pilot lives...just.
Engine replaced, bracket not installed. Pipe rubs against fuel line. Fuel line breaks over the Atlantic. Aircraft makes a no power landing in the Azores. No fuel in the tanks.
Maintenance check misses a crack in the side of aircraft. At altitude crack runs across fuselage. 20 feet of roof peels off.
Should I go on?
Do you like the mistakes or actions of the few being cast on all mechanics?
Are you getting my point yet?
anyway, to respond to what you DID post.
The market does not decide a CEO's compensation, the share holders do. It is their company, they can pay who they want whatever they want.
Unions threaten a company if it does not comply with its demands. See the difference?
Great examples, as an aircraft mechanic for the past 23 or so years at various airlines, I could tell you even more stories that are even scarier, weirder, close, and lucky as hell, that didn't make the front page and isn't common knowledge. How much time do ya got?
From your post I can tell you are a teamster. Great noble history ya got there, if there was a better example as the problem with unions other than the UAW, yours would be it.
Last edited by lowing (2008-11-19 22:59:38)
No not a Teamster.
And if a company does not comply with a CEO's demand, they go to the next one.
We can't move a plants worth of people the the next one. so that the way it works.
More later...of to work
And if a company does not comply with a CEO's demand, they go to the next one.
We can't move a plants worth of people the the next one. so that the way it works.
More later...of to work
It doesn't matter that it isn't take home pay. It's still a benefit that costs money to the company. In fact, I just read in this morning's paper that half of the money that GM wants is to support retirement benefits. That's right, of that huge chunk of money they want, 1/2 of it is to support people that don't even work there any more.Karbin wrote:
Unfortunately, way to many think that it's "Take home pay".Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
That number isn't just wages, but wages+all benefits. So to figure the true cost an employee has on the company you have to look at insurance, vacation time, pensions and/or 401K contribution matches, plus any of the other bennies that you get.Karbin wrote:
So 250,000 people, according to most on this forum, are responsible for the collapse of the Detroit 3.
People that make, on average, $28.00 dollars an hour. ON AVERAGE. Some make more, some make less.
NOT $70 or 60 or even 40 (would like to know where those numbers came from)
You have to realize that much of GMs current expenses are retirees that worked for the company when retirement meant pensions and insurance.
To add to that, a 40 hour week will NOT total 70k a year.
Here, the law is over time at 46 hours.
Contract is over time at over 40 hours or over 8 hours a shift.
As well the company can make a Saturday as mandatory.
........and lets not forget what they get when they are laid off.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
It doesn't matter that it isn't take home pay. It's still a benefit that costs money to the company. In fact, I just read in this morning's paper that half of the money that GM wants is to support retirement benefits. That's right, of that huge chunk of money they want, 1/2 of it is to support people that don't even work there any more.Karbin wrote:
Unfortunately, way to many think that it's "Take home pay".Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
That number isn't just wages, but wages+all benefits. So to figure the true cost an employee has on the company you have to look at insurance, vacation time, pensions and/or 401K contribution matches, plus any of the other bennies that you get.
You have to realize that much of GMs current expenses are retirees that worked for the company when retirement meant pensions and insurance.
To add to that, a 40 hour week will NOT total 70k a year.
Here, the law is over time at 46 hours.
Contract is over time at over 40 hours or over 8 hours a shift.
As well the company can make a Saturday as mandatory.
Poor guys, http://www.sme.org/cgi-bin/get-press.pl … p;SME&
I have owned 2 American cars in my time. Both Fords. Without a doubt the worst put together shit I have ever sat in. I must have been mental to buy a second. I just thought it was a one off bum car. Second was worse. Constantly in the garage and the build quality was terrible.
Were as I have been driving Audi & Land rover ever since without a major problem.
I don't know if fords on the US market are built better.
In sort. Shit product=shit sales.
No brainier really.
This free market globalisation the UK and US have been preaching for decades doesn't seam to apply at home.
Were as I have been driving Audi & Land rover ever since without a major problem.
I don't know if fords on the US market are built better.
In sort. Shit product=shit sales.
No brainier really.
This free market globalisation the UK and US have been preaching for decades doesn't seam to apply at home.
My experience was with Chrysler. I traded in a Honda for a Chrysler whne we started having kids, 5 trips to the service dept. and 30,000 miles later, I traded it back in for another Honda.JahManRed wrote:
I have owned 2 American cars in my time. Both Fords. Without a doubt the worst put together shit I have ever sat in. I must have been mental to buy a second. I just thought it was a one off bum car. Second was worse. Constantly in the garage and the build quality was terrible.
Were as I have been driving Audi & Land rover ever since without a major problem.
I don't know if fords on the US market are built better.
In sort. Shit product=shit sales.
No brainier really.
This free market globalisation the UK and US have been preaching for decades doesn't seam to apply at home.
Never ever again
Interesting to see the reception the big 3 got when they met with the Senate and House this week.
Source
Another fine example of extreme capitalism " Privatising Profits and Socialising losses".
Source
The Big three were then ripped to shreds by both sides of politics:The Age wrote:
Instead, the chief executives of America's Big Three car makers opted to fly their company jets to the US capital for their hearings this week before the Senate and House — an ill-timed display of corporate excess for a trio of executives begging for an additional $US25 billion ($A38.6 billion) from the public trough this week.
Democrats wrote:
"There's a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, DC, and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hands," Democrat representative Gary Ackerman advised the pampered executives at a hearing yesterday. "It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high-hat and tuxedo … I mean, couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get here
Towards the end the politicians mentioned executive pay levels.Republicans wrote:
"I'm not an opponent of private flights by any means, but the fact that you flew in on your own private jet at tens of thousands of dollars in cost just for you to make your way to Washington is a bit arrogant before you ask the taxpayers for money."
Considering the huge amount of money they earn and the poor performance of the company , they show absolutely no willingness to share the burden of hardship with the people they work with , or the people that they want to get money off.The Age wrote:
It was hard to feel sorry for the executives when Republican Peter Roskam, late in the hearing, reminded them again that "the symbolism of the private jet is difficult", and mischievously asked the witnesses whether, in another symbolic gesture, they would be willing to work for $1 a year. "I don't have a position on that today," said Mr Wagoner (2007 total compensation: $US15.7 million).
"I understand the intent, but I think where we are is OK," said Mr Mulally ($US21.7 million).
"I'm asking about you," Mr Roskam said.
"I think I'm OK where I am," Mr Mulally said. Don't even think about asking him to fly commercial
Another fine example of extreme capitalism " Privatising Profits and Socialising losses".
Actually this is not capitalism. Asking the govt. for money IS NOT capitalism.Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
Interesting to see the reception the big 3 got when they met with the Senate and House this week.
SourceThe Big three were then ripped to shreds by both sides of politics:The Age wrote:
Instead, the chief executives of America's Big Three car makers opted to fly their company jets to the US capital for their hearings this week before the Senate and House — an ill-timed display of corporate excess for a trio of executives begging for an additional $US25 billion ($A38.6 billion) from the public trough this week.Democrats wrote:
"There's a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, DC, and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hands," Democrat representative Gary Ackerman advised the pampered executives at a hearing yesterday. "It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high-hat and tuxedo … I mean, couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get hereTowards the end the politicians mentioned executive pay levels.Republicans wrote:
"I'm not an opponent of private flights by any means, but the fact that you flew in on your own private jet at tens of thousands of dollars in cost just for you to make your way to Washington is a bit arrogant before you ask the taxpayers for money."Considering the huge amount of money they earn and the poor performance of the company , they show absolutely no willingness to share the burden of hardship with the people they work with , or the people that they want to get money off.The Age wrote:
It was hard to feel sorry for the executives when Republican Peter Roskam, late in the hearing, reminded them again that "the symbolism of the private jet is difficult", and mischievously asked the witnesses whether, in another symbolic gesture, they would be willing to work for $1 a year. "I don't have a position on that today," said Mr Wagoner (2007 total compensation: $US15.7 million).
"I understand the intent, but I think where we are is OK," said Mr Mulally ($US21.7 million).
"I'm asking about you," Mr Roskam said.
"I think I'm OK where I am," Mr Mulally said. Don't even think about asking him to fly commercial
Another fine example of extreme capitalism " Privatising Profits and Socialising losses".
Real and ungoverned capitalism would collapse and /fail harder than Marxist Communism if it wasn't for government/institutional support and cash injection. It's a backbone that, whilst contrary to the ideals and principles of the economic philosophy, all the more needs to be there to stop you guys from over-investing and shopping yourselves into another obese consumerist Dark Age.lowing wrote:
Actually this is not capitalism. Asking the govt. for money IS NOT capitalism.Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
Interesting to see the reception the big 3 got when they met with the Senate and House this week.
SourceThe Big three were then ripped to shreds by both sides of politics:The Age wrote:
Instead, the chief executives of America's Big Three car makers opted to fly their company jets to the US capital for their hearings this week before the Senate and House — an ill-timed display of corporate excess for a trio of executives begging for an additional $US25 billion ($A38.6 billion) from the public trough this week.Democrats wrote:
"There's a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, DC, and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hands," Democrat representative Gary Ackerman advised the pampered executives at a hearing yesterday. "It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high-hat and tuxedo … I mean, couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get hereTowards the end the politicians mentioned executive pay levels.Republicans wrote:
"I'm not an opponent of private flights by any means, but the fact that you flew in on your own private jet at tens of thousands of dollars in cost just for you to make your way to Washington is a bit arrogant before you ask the taxpayers for money."Considering the huge amount of money they earn and the poor performance of the company , they show absolutely no willingness to share the burden of hardship with the people they work with , or the people that they want to get money off.The Age wrote:
It was hard to feel sorry for the executives when Republican Peter Roskam, late in the hearing, reminded them again that "the symbolism of the private jet is difficult", and mischievously asked the witnesses whether, in another symbolic gesture, they would be willing to work for $1 a year. "I don't have a position on that today," said Mr Wagoner (2007 total compensation: $US15.7 million).
"I understand the intent, but I think where we are is OK," said Mr Mulally ($US21.7 million).
"I'm asking about you," Mr Roskam said.
"I think I'm OK where I am," Mr Mulally said. Don't even think about asking him to fly commercial
Another fine example of extreme capitalism " Privatising Profits and Socialising losses".
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Unfettered capitalism does not lead to Shangri-La any more than communism does.
It leads to feudalism.
It leads to feudalism.
Fuck Israel
Ummmmmmm, credit, is also not capitalismUzique wrote:
Real and ungoverned capitalism would collapse and /fail harder than Marxist Communism if it wasn't for government/institutional support and cash injection. It's a backbone that, whilst contrary to the ideals and principles of the economic philosophy, all the more needs to be there to stop you guys from over-investing and shopping yourselves into another obese consumerist Dark Age.lowing wrote:
Actually this is not capitalism. Asking the govt. for money IS NOT capitalism.Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
Interesting to see the reception the big 3 got when they met with the Senate and House this week.
SourceThe Big three were then ripped to shreds by both sides of politics:The Age wrote:
Instead, the chief executives of America's Big Three car makers opted to fly their company jets to the US capital for their hearings this week before the Senate and House — an ill-timed display of corporate excess for a trio of executives begging for an additional $US25 billion ($A38.6 billion) from the public trough this week.Democrats wrote:
"There's a delicious irony in seeing private luxury jets flying into Washington, DC, and people coming off of them with tin cups in their hands," Democrat representative Gary Ackerman advised the pampered executives at a hearing yesterday. "It's almost like seeing a guy show up at the soup kitchen in high-hat and tuxedo … I mean, couldn't you all have downgraded to first class or jet-pooled or something to get hereTowards the end the politicians mentioned executive pay levels.Republicans wrote:
"I'm not an opponent of private flights by any means, but the fact that you flew in on your own private jet at tens of thousands of dollars in cost just for you to make your way to Washington is a bit arrogant before you ask the taxpayers for money."
Considering the huge amount of money they earn and the poor performance of the company , they show absolutely no willingness to share the burden of hardship with the people they work with , or the people that they want to get money off.
Another fine example of extreme capitalism " Privatising Profits and Socialising losses".
Oh wise one, please tell us what capitalism is!
I need around tree fiddy.
sure, it is supply and demand, it is competition as to who produces the best product for a given price, it is the strong and viable survive and the weak and questionable get dissolved. There are no entitlements ( or there shouldn't be I should say). There should be no govt. interference, in the incompetency of a business. If the business is stupid with its market then it will fail and someone else will back fill their space.DonFck wrote:
Oh wise one, please tell us what capitalism is!
But capitalism leads to money, money leads to power, power corrupts, -> Joe Schmuck has to shell out $25bn to someone who earns $25m/yr and flies around in a free aeroplane.
Pure communism and pure capitalism are fine in theory, but neither work in practice.
Pure communism and pure capitalism are fine in theory, but neither work in practice.
Fuck Israel
People that define capitalism as 'supply and demand' are fucking primary-school economists.
There have to be entitlements or government interference, or else the entire system would collapse. There has to be competitive regulation and a hold on the entire machinery otherwise this 'supply and demand' relationship would drive half of the population either out of the country or into poverty. It's not realistic Lowing... Jesus, read an actual book or something. Darwinian economics and all this 'survival of the fittest' bullshit doesn't benefit anybody... how do the rich fat cats and the 'predators' carry on reaping profits if their subordinate underclass of peons all die off or fall through the safety net? How would your society even continue to function at a basic level if all the people performing menial (yet necessary) tasks at the bottom of the ladder didn't have support and government injection to keep them afloat every now and then?
Whereas I do agree with "If the business is stupid with its market then it will fail and someone else will back fill their space"- I do not think it's practical to be entirely absolute on this stance. If the 'business' happens to be a huge multinational corporation that is keeping thousands of people employed and many more hundreds of thousands financially afloat, then it shouldn't just disappear off the map without any contigency scheme or compensation for the affected.
There have to be entitlements or government interference, or else the entire system would collapse. There has to be competitive regulation and a hold on the entire machinery otherwise this 'supply and demand' relationship would drive half of the population either out of the country or into poverty. It's not realistic Lowing... Jesus, read an actual book or something. Darwinian economics and all this 'survival of the fittest' bullshit doesn't benefit anybody... how do the rich fat cats and the 'predators' carry on reaping profits if their subordinate underclass of peons all die off or fall through the safety net? How would your society even continue to function at a basic level if all the people performing menial (yet necessary) tasks at the bottom of the ladder didn't have support and government injection to keep them afloat every now and then?
Whereas I do agree with "If the business is stupid with its market then it will fail and someone else will back fill their space"- I do not think it's practical to be entirely absolute on this stance. If the 'business' happens to be a huge multinational corporation that is keeping thousands of people employed and many more hundreds of thousands financially afloat, then it shouldn't just disappear off the map without any contigency scheme or compensation for the affected.
Last edited by Uzique (2008-11-21 04:36:26)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/