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2008-11-04 22:02:21
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6710|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

What am I hoping for?...  the Magic 60 in the Senate...  booyah...
Absolute power yea.. good idea .. . I don't care who the hell you support, that's just lame.
Hey, the Republicans almost had that between 2001 and 2006...  I don't think you have to worry about that though.  It looks like the Democrats won't get anymore than 57 or 58 in total.  I'm pretty sure Al Franken and Martin (running in Georgia) will lose.

However, it will be good seeing Stevens lose his seat up in Alaska.  He's pretty damn corrupt.
2008-11-04 22:03:37
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6980|Canberra, AUS
Getting rid of the MOAR DEBT attitude.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2008-11-04 22:04:51
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

What am I hoping for?...  the Magic 60 in the Senate...  booyah...
Absolute power yea.. good idea .. . I don't care who the hell you support, that's just lame.
Hey, the Republicans almost had that between 2001 and 2006...  I don't think you have to worry about that though.  It looks like the Democrats won't get anymore than 57 or 58 in total.  I'm pretty sure Al Franken and Martin (running in Georgia) will lose.

However, it will be good seeing Stevens lose his seat up in Alaska.  He's pretty damn corrupt.
That means crap can go straight through committee without even being debated.. c'mon man. I don't give a crap who "almost had it years ago". I'd be just as against it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-11-04 22:05:59
imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

What am I hoping for?...  the Magic 60 in the Senate...  booyah...
Absolute power yea.. good idea .. . I don't care who the hell you support, that's just lame.
Hey, the Republicans almost had that between 2001 and 2006...  I don't think you have to worry about that though.  It looks like the Democrats won't get anymore than 57 or 58 in total.  I'm pretty sure Al Franken and Martin (running in Georgia) will lose.

However, it will be good seeing Stevens lose his seat up in Alaska.  He's pretty damn corrupt.
But the Republicans weren't promising any changes that threatened changes regardless of what the unintended results may be... They were running status quo, except for that whole Iraq/Patriot act thing....

And yes, the corrupt should go away.  Like say... anyone who was an incumbant, on either side of the aisle?  Instead of rooting out the corrupt ones, why not investigate to find the honest ones?  Would be fewer people to look at.
2008-11-04 22:07:03
imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX

Spark wrote:

Getting rid of the MOAR DEBT attitude.
That has been going on for long before our current president... that has been creeping in for decades now.
2008-11-04 22:08:09
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7073

Kmarion wrote:

Lower taxes por moi.
u want change but ur not prepared to pay for it?
2008-11-04 22:09:13
imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX

BN wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Lower taxes por moi.
u want change but ur not prepared to pay for it?
He thought you meant 'change,' like the coins jingling in your pocket.
2008-11-04 22:10:04
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

BN wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Lower taxes por moi.
u want change but ur not prepared to pay for it?
It depends on what you want changed.
/school
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-11-04 22:12:30
imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX

Kmarion wrote:

BN wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Lower taxes por moi.
u want change but ur not prepared to pay for it?
It depends on what you want changed.
/school
Because we know that throwing money at the system has worked wonders so far...
2008-11-04 22:13:59
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6980|Canberra, AUS

imortal wrote:

Spark wrote:

Getting rid of the MOAR DEBT attitude.
That has been going on for long before our current president... that has been creeping in for decades now.
I thought it was getting worse.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2008-11-04 22:15:25
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6710|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


Absolute power yea.. good idea .. . I don't care who the hell you support, that's just lame.
Hey, the Republicans almost had that between 2001 and 2006...  I don't think you have to worry about that though.  It looks like the Democrats won't get anymore than 57 or 58 in total.  I'm pretty sure Al Franken and Martin (running in Georgia) will lose.

However, it will be good seeing Stevens lose his seat up in Alaska.  He's pretty damn corrupt.
That means crap can go straight through committee without even being debated.. c'mon man. I don't give a crap who "almost had it years ago". I'd be just as against it.
Hey, you never know...  Lieberman may decide to caucus with the Republicans now.
2008-11-04 22:16:54
imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX

Spark wrote:

imortal wrote:

Spark wrote:

Getting rid of the MOAR DEBT attitude.
That has been going on for long before our current president... that has been creeping in for decades now.
I thought it was getting worse.
No, just more publicized.  Used to be a dirty little secret until a few years ago.  And it is not a political problem, but rather a cultural one.  A new President will not change it.  If anything, the laws the Dems are pushing may even make it worse, by making it easier to slip out of your debts for a fraction of what you owe, forcing banks to foot the bill for the balance due.
2008-11-04 22:17:05
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6710|North Carolina

imortal wrote:

But the Republicans weren't promising any changes that threatened changes regardless of what the unintended results may be... They were running status quo, except for that whole Iraq/Patriot act thing....

And yes, the corrupt should go away.  Like say... anyone who was an incumbant, on either side of the aisle?  Instead of rooting out the corrupt ones, why not investigate to find the honest ones?  Would be fewer people to look at.
They didn't promise any changes, but boy did we get them.

Don't get me wrong...  I disagree with Democrats on a number of key issues, but after all the bullshit of the GOP for the last 8 years, I'm ready for a Democrat resurgence.  If they fuck things up, then we can always have a Republican Revolution in 2010.
2008-11-04 22:18:58
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

imortal wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

BN wrote:


u want change but ur not prepared to pay for it?
It depends on what you want changed.
/school
Because we know that throwing money at the system has worked wonders so far...
Is that what I said? I am confused now though.. you ridicule change and then you make sarcastic comments about doing the same thing?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-11-04 22:19:53
imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX

Turquoise wrote:

imortal wrote:

But the Republicans weren't promising any changes that threatened changes regardless of what the unintended results may be... They were running status quo, except for that whole Iraq/Patriot act thing....

And yes, the corrupt should go away.  Like say... anyone who was an incumbant, on either side of the aisle?  Instead of rooting out the corrupt ones, why not investigate to find the honest ones?  Would be fewer people to look at.
They didn't promise any changes, but boy did we get them.

Don't get me wrong...  I disagree with Democrats on a number of key issues, but after all the bullshit of the GOP for the last 8 years, I'm ready for a Democrat resurgence.  If they fuck things up, then we can always have a Republican Revolution in 2010.
Here's hoping!  I just hope Obama stays safe that long.  If some idiot kills him, Biden will jump in with the most oppressive laws in years 'for the public good.'  I may not like the man, but I want to see him safely into old age.
2008-11-04 22:24:09
blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6950
a Muslim state lolz jk

hmm should be interesting, lower taxes I agree
2008-11-04 22:24:29
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6710|North Carolina

imortal wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

imortal wrote:

But the Republicans weren't promising any changes that threatened changes regardless of what the unintended results may be... They were running status quo, except for that whole Iraq/Patriot act thing....

And yes, the corrupt should go away.  Like say... anyone who was an incumbant, on either side of the aisle?  Instead of rooting out the corrupt ones, why not investigate to find the honest ones?  Would be fewer people to look at.
They didn't promise any changes, but boy did we get them.

Don't get me wrong...  I disagree with Democrats on a number of key issues, but after all the bullshit of the GOP for the last 8 years, I'm ready for a Democrat resurgence.  If they fuck things up, then we can always have a Republican Revolution in 2010.
Here's hoping!  I just hope Obama stays safe that long.  If some idiot kills him, Biden will jump in with the most oppressive laws in years 'for the public good.'  I may not like the man, but I want to see him safely into old age.
Yeah, I do have to admit that I worry about someone making a martyr out of Obama.

Although I don't have any major problems with Biden.  I just wish he was less of a hawk and would back off on the whole War on Drugs.
2008-11-04 22:34:34
imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX

Kmarion wrote:

imortal wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

It depends on what you want changed.
/school
Because we know that throwing money at the system has worked wonders so far...
Is that what I said? I am confused now though.. you ridicule change and then you make sarcastic comments about doing the same thing?
Hey, I know the system is messed up!  But I want to look at WHY the system is so screwed.  Education is messed up, but the teachers' Unions are adamant about being against basing pay partly on performance...  Nearly every time more money is spend on 'education,' the vast majority of it stays in the administrative side, and very little leaks down to the classrooms.  It is more an organizational problem than anything else, but the unions fight any type of change, because they lose their cash cow!  And who do the unions support?

The perscription drug industry is screwed, because the FDA is corrupt and so in bed with them that it is nearly incest.  Allowing advertising of drugs requiring a doctors perscription to be aired for the public is reprehensable.  But I do not think that it needs to be incorperated into a national system. 

Meidcare and Medicaid are a joke, staying solvent only by searching for any possible clerical error in order to deny a valid claim.  HMOs are so broken it is not funny.  Doctors are forced to pay outragious sums in insurance against malpracitce suits, it bumps costs up.

At the current rate, Social Securtiy will melt down before I ever get to see any of the money I put into it, and there is absolutely no legal obligation for them to pay that money back to me.

But, while these are serious and overarching problems, they can be solved without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  Also, I am nearly always against making the government bigger.  Adding healthcare into the mix will be disgusting.  Also, how many things in the US do you really think can be better run by the goverment?

I DO believe in change, but I fear the methods that are being proposed in order to effect that change.  Not all change is good.

Last edited by imortal (2008-11-04 22:43:13)

2008-11-04 22:41:50
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

I agree.. it's a gamble either way. The truth is that you don't always drive 60 mph. Sometimes you need to slow down, sometimes the country needs to shift gears and go through a more conservative or liberal stage. I think we are at a point that requires one of those fundamental shifts. This requires me to .. sigh ..  compromise. I still have my core beliefs. But sometimes you need to change your route in order to get to your destination.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-11-04 22:43:56
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6299|Truthistan
Oh Boy its X-mas... What do I want?

1. National healthcare with a corresponding death to that segment of the insurance industry
2. For Joe "the Loser" Lieberman (Joe "the turn coat" Lieberman) to be kicked out of the democratic caucus - if the dems don't reach 60, then Lieberman is offically neutered and they can kick him out Yaaaaaa!
3. more regulation for wallstreet
4. a stronger dollar and a lower price on oil
5. an energy policy and a rebuilding of the electrical infrastructure and electrical corridors (you know some of that stuff was build by Edison, the guy not the company, its that old)

There is so much more but finally we will have a president you can speak well or is it speak gooder I can't really remember I'm so confused from the last eight years because I thought Bush was the "best-est" we had.  (Awww dog gonnit there's I go agin.)

P.S. I think the worm has finally turned against the crazy ten percenters that used to rule elections... the real majority has spoken this time

Last edited by Diesel_dyk (2008-11-04 22:55:10)

2008-11-04 22:46:24
imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX
I just think that the Democrats current path is TOO FAR out there.  Now, I am conservative by nature, but I know that stagnation is bad, innovation is needed occasionally.  And many, me included, will resist change until it is proven good.  On the other hand, change for the sake of change is also bad, and there needs to be a steadying influence (or drag, if you prefer) to keep too many changes from destabilizing society.  We just have to find an unhappy medium.  Moderation.  And, unfortunately, if there is one things Americans are bad at, it is moderation.
2008-11-04 22:53:15
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

imortal wrote:

I just think that the Democrats current path is TOO FAR out there.  Now, I am conservative by nature, but I know that stagnation is bad, innovation is needed occasionally.  And many, me included, will resist change until it is proven good.  On the other hand, change for the sake of change is also bad, and there needs to be a steadying influence (or drag, if you prefer) to keep too many changes from destabilizing society.  We just have to find an unhappy medium.  Moderation.  And, unfortunately, if there is one things Americans are bad at, it is moderation.
Shit.. we are the most moderate among the bunch. The rest of the world is on either side of us.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-11-04 22:54:44
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6710|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

imortal wrote:

I just think that the Democrats current path is TOO FAR out there.  Now, I am conservative by nature, but I know that stagnation is bad, innovation is needed occasionally.  And many, me included, will resist change until it is proven good.  On the other hand, change for the sake of change is also bad, and there needs to be a steadying influence (or drag, if you prefer) to keep too many changes from destabilizing society.  We just have to find an unhappy medium.  Moderation.  And, unfortunately, if there is one things Americans are bad at, it is moderation.
Shit.. we are the most moderate among the bunch. The rest of the world is on either side of us.
Well, America is more conservative than most of the First World and more liberal than most of the Third World, but....

the question is...   wouldn't you rather be more like most of the First World than most of the Third World?
2008-11-04 23:00:34
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

imortal wrote:

I just think that the Democrats current path is TOO FAR out there.  Now, I am conservative by nature, but I know that stagnation is bad, innovation is needed occasionally.  And many, me included, will resist change until it is proven good.  On the other hand, change for the sake of change is also bad, and there needs to be a steadying influence (or drag, if you prefer) to keep too many changes from destabilizing society.  We just have to find an unhappy medium.  Moderation.  And, unfortunately, if there is one things Americans are bad at, it is moderation.
Shit.. we are the most moderate among the bunch. The rest of the world is on either side of us.
Well, America is more conservative than most of the First World and more liberal than most of the Third World, but....

the question is...   wouldn't you rather be more like most of the First World than most of the Third World?
pshht.. u want conservative? I'll show you conservative..lol.  I want neither extreme .. buddy . There you go again with your absolute views.

Turq I really think you would be happier if you got a boat ticket.. maybe just a bus.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2008-11-04 23:07:13
imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

imortal wrote:

I just think that the Democrats current path is TOO FAR out there.  Now, I am conservative by nature, but I know that stagnation is bad, innovation is needed occasionally.  And many, me included, will resist change until it is proven good.  On the other hand, change for the sake of change is also bad, and there needs to be a steadying influence (or drag, if you prefer) to keep too many changes from destabilizing society.  We just have to find an unhappy medium.  Moderation.  And, unfortunately, if there is one things Americans are bad at, it is moderation.
Shit.. we are the most moderate among the bunch. The rest of the world is on either side of us.
Well, America is more conservative than most of the First World and more liberal than most of the Third World, but....

the question is...   wouldn't you rather be more like most of the First World than most of the Third World?
Nice bit of rhetoric there....  what I want?

Okay, less of a stranglehold of religion on certain areas.
More freedoms, with acknowledged comiserate increase of personal responsibility and accountability of actions.
Equal rights for all, special rights for none.
A simplified tax code.
A realization that while 'all men are created equal,' they don't stay that way long, and if it is due to their own efforts, it is acceptable.
A hard set of term limits to reduce or eliminate the US's 'political aristocracy.'
A reduction of the appeal of poilitcal office, to make it more of a public service than a route to power.
Limited isolationalism, with a strong military to enforce our political will overseas should we choose to enforce it.
A smaller government that is only tolerated into a citizen's daily life with distrust and wariness.
A de-emphasys of profit over all by coorperations, and an aknoledgement that long term goals (20 years+) are good things.
A promotion of recycling and self-sustaining resources and energy, at a moderate pace.
An education system that does not attempt to replace parents, or try to mandate a childs attendence, invalidating home-school.

There, pretty much it.  Unfortunately, much of that requires the dreaded word 'moderation' again.  Neither party has anything resembling it.  Now, is that 1st world, 3rd world, or will you admit that those terms don't belong in this situation, since you can't even list 2nd world nations anymore?

1st world, modern, western, NATO nations.
2nd world, modern nations, Eastern Bloc affiliation
3rd world, unaffiliated nations, usually undeveloped.
..... unless I am thinking of a different classification system?

 

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