lowing wrote:
1. Nope, never said life was fair, it just isn't the govts. job to make it that way. In this case it would appear that 250,000 is the magic number. Make more than that and expect the govt. to step in and take it. It can't be too hard to figure out Braddock, if you take more money from me, you are taking money from my family, this forces me to work harder or longer to make up for it. People did not cheat anyone or steal from the poor. I guess this is what you consider earning for yourself, because EARNING isn't something that is apparently in your vocabulary. Nothing has been taken from the poor, quite frankly, they don't have anything to take. It is absurd for you to tell me that anyone that has money obviously took it from the poor. I am not for the bail-out Braddock, tell it to someone who is.
At least you're admitting now that not everyone has the same opportunities in life, because it is true - life is not fair. So is Obama claiming now that anything earned over 250'000 will be seized by the Government? Because I was under the impression that earnings over that limit just enter a higher tax band. I don't see it as unfair that people in a demographic that has traditionally benefited from a whole host of tax breaks that don't apply to regular middle class earners (and which McCain incidentally would like to give more of) should be asked to pay a bit more tax on those earnings over the 250'000 limit. I guess we just differ on that front lowing.
lowing wrote:
2. What about the people in the middle? Pay for your school like everyone else had to. Every hear of "working your way through college"? I have my own 2 kids that I will need to assist. How about you assist yours? A person wh omakes 250,000 a year is not the Mobile execs. Braddock. America is what it is because of free enterprise NOT govt. regulation. Or is this the part where you tell me hoe efficient govt. control is?
So if you have kids and are a young single parent you should work your way through college? There's no room for variables like this when it comes to the individual in your worldview lowing. A single parent trying to better her situation would have a hard enough time balancing college study with looking after the kids, never mind working a job to pay for everything. Also, are you claiming that the top dogs in Exon Mobil et al. make less than 250'000 dollars a year? America is in the situation it is in currently because of deregulation... well done by the way.
lowing wrote:
3. Your parents didn't go to college BY CHOICE Braddock, they made decisions and are apparently living with it. Are you telling me there was no possible way on earth they could have gotten a college education. It was completly impossible, the govt. held them down, there was absolutely no avenues that could have been persued to accomplish a higher education. Even with a gun to their heads, college just could not have been obtained. is this what you are telling me? The Joe the plumbers out there, my self included do not make just enough to pay the bills. We make plenty, the problem is we as Americans live outside our means and go into debt. NOW we have just enough money to pay the bills. But of course, you have already established, that also, is someone elses fault.
In tough economic times people often cannot afford the 'luxury' of college. It was a case of getting out of school and getting into a job as quick as you can so as you can earn money for the family and keep food on the table. Even in the present day this mentality persists in poorer communities. I know in your head drive and desire trumps all but in the real world it really doesn't, not all the time at least. My father for example has never lacked drive or desire... this is a man who built our home with his own two hands, from start to finish. He also put me and my brother through university to enjoy a third level education that he never had the chance to experience in his own youth. In fact many of my college educated friends' parents are themselves not college-educated, this in itself is an indication of the difficulty there was for many to achieve third level education during my father's era in the darker days of the Irish economy.
lowing wrote:
4. I see so charity is not genrosity by those that want to help, it is guilt cleanzing for success. I got it now. And socialist do not believe in charity or generosity, only the notion that you have what we all want, so it time to share, in order "to be fair"
No it's not... but it sometimes is. And it is definitely a convenient way for the super rich to write stuff off against tax while getting good publicity. Many, many socialists do give generously lowing, a few stats from that book you cited is not the be all and end all on that argument. Maybe American socialists are just tight bastards?
lowing wrote:
Yup, if a person in America wants education, there are programs in place to assist. the only thing left id desire, ambition and motivation, but keep ignoring those talking points. Lets focus on who else we can blame.
Programs to assist some... and some of them have ridiculous requirements to qualify for them it would seem. There are still plenty of people out there with bucketloads of desire who can't pursue third level education thanks to the societal situation they find themselves in... but sure, keep blaming it on laziness. And by the way proper socialism isn't about Government blaming anyone, it's about Government working to alleviate societies problems in unison with society itself.
lowing wrote:
Nope, programs in place to help the poor, but again, lets not concentrate on the decisions in life that made them that way, let keep searching for someone ot blame other than the guy in mirror.
Again you love turning things into a blame game. Not everyone is poor through stupid life choices lowing, other factors (like bad luck for example) can play a part.
lowing wrote:
Yeah, what we need is big govt. to pave the way to collective sharing, because we all know how efficiant govt. is. Ya see what your problem is, you think govt. control is what makes America great. The fact is, it is the individuality and the self motivated, the ambitious, the risk takers, etc that makes America great.
Fuck collective sharing thank you very much, Communism isn't exactly a proven winner you know. Responsible Government with a conscience on the other hand? One that reflects the needs and interests of the people at large rather than catering to an elite plutocracy? Where do I sign?
Last edited by Braddock (2008-10-23 06:45:21)
