BF2S Forums "I'm going to fire two employees if Obama wins"

PureFodder wrote:

FEOS wrote:

No, there's also massive amounts of college loans that must be paid off, as well.

I'm not saying doctors are barely getting by. They make gobs of money. Never implied otherwise.

But the same is true in other countries. US doctors are paid about twice that of European doctors. If this was due to the neccessity of paying off their college fees, their college fees would have to be approximately $2-3 million dollars in excess of the college fees in Europe to account for all of the extra money they get paid, assuming they work for 30 years at the national average wage for a doctor. US doctors earn large amounts of money and neither law suits or college fees even remotely account for the differences in typical US and European doctors pay.

The only sensible reason for the high salaries of US doctors is the lack of competition that is directly due to the number of residencies that congress funds each year.

Which types of doctors are you referring to? Salaries vary widely among specialties.

GorillaTicTacs wrote:

Besides, at that income level, Obama's tax plan works better than ever.  You'll be pretty much tax free.  I don't see you climbing your way into the top 5% of the US incomes very soon.

Yeah, but a big help it does to lower my taxes if my boss has to fire me to reduce overhead. 

Granted, I am in a pretty recession-proof job, and I have made damn sure it is not MY head that will be first on the chopping block to go (when in doubt, work hard to make yourself one of the very best employees).  But, even though I am nowhere near the top of the income pyramid, it is not hard to realize that taking more money away from the people using that money to create jobs and products (which is what really keeps the economy going) is most likely not the smartest thing to do.

In my opinion, the entire strategy is nothing more than a tactic to 'buy' the much more numerous votes of the 'poor' at the expense of the relativesly few 'rich' in order to obtain and maintain political power at any cost.  No, I do not think that the Republicans are any more honest, but I get tired of people wrapping shit in rose petals and trying to sell it as a flower (how is that for an image?).

Turquoise wrote:

Oh well, the most overpaid doctors in the world are about to see a drop in income.  Somehow, sympathy escapes me.

Here's to hoping insurance agents, CEOs, entertainers, pro sports players, and lawyers are the next to see drops.

Don't forget the people with no education that worked for decades to earn their money. Those guys are hiding out too.

Turquoise wrote:

SealXo wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Oh well, the most overpaid doctors in the world are about to see a drop in income.  Somehow, sympathy escapes me.

Here's to hoping insurance agents, CEOs, entertainers, pro sports players, and lawyers are the next to see drops.

Don't forget the people with no education that worked for decades to earn their money. Those guys are hiding out too.

Are you referring to illegals?

No, but I am referring to immigrants.. sort of.

My grandpa was poor as shit, his dad was a lithuanian immigrant, he did back breaking work in canada from the time he was 13-20 to save up to go to Columbia to get an education in DESIGN. Then he took his wife, and his kid, to CA, with 300 dollars in his pocket, legally. Then he gave up being a father to work for about ten years to sell church materials and drove across the country barely ever home. Hard life id say.. especially since hes a jew. Then, he used all that money he spent years away from home to create his own business (nothing to do with design) to make money. He worked at this 12 hours a day 7 days a week and saved, literally, every dime he ever made. A few decades later of constant working, he bought a few buildings which he now rents out on top of other things he invested in and he went from 300 dollars to uhm... quite a bit.

I don't see how its fairness to see how a man who gave up everything, even his family for awhile, and worked all his life going through the shit to give someone else a free lunch.

almost 60 years he worked his ass off to get where he is. he didnt do that to keep less then half of what he makes.
he isnt just some rich little kid who instantly got where he is, he worked for it. people fail to see that there are a lot of people like that and not everyone is a hedge fund owner.

he donates plenty of his money to good causes. he isnt a "greedy wall street CEO or hedge fund owner" . come on.

Last edited by SealXo (2008-10-21 21:45:25)

Turquoise wrote:

After the bailout of Wall Street, I'd say it's time for payback.

I never agreed to the bailout.  I think the economy should be allowed to falter and get back up on its own.  If you teach the boards of these big companies that they will be bailed out if they mess up, then they will keep doing stupid things.  Make sure they know they are working without a net, and see how much more careful they are.

Yes, things would suck for us for a while.  I think we would come out of it a stronger nation, and a stronger people.

Turquoise wrote:

SealXo wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Are you referring to illegals?

No, but I am referring to immigrants.. sort of.

My grandpa was poor as shit, his dad was a lithuanian immigrant, he did back breaking work in canada from the time he was 13-20 to save up to go to Columbia to get an education in DESIGN. Then he took his wife, and his kid, to CA, with 300 dollars in his pocket, legally. Then he gave up being a father to work for about ten years to sell church materials and drove across the country barely ever home. Hard life id say.. especially since hes a jew. Then, he used all that money he spent years away from home to create his own business (nothing to do with design) to make money. He worked at this 12 hours a day 7 days a week and saved, literally, every dime he ever made. A few decades later of constant working, he bought a few buildings which he now rents out on top of other things he invested in and he went from 300 dollars to uhm... quite a bit.

I don't see how its fairness to see how a man who gave up everything, even his family for awhile, and worked all his life going through the shit to give someone else a free lunch.

almost 60 years he worked his ass off to get where he is. he didnt do that to keep less then half of what he makes.

Well, for starters, he wouldn't keep less than half of what he makes unless Obama plans on raising the AMT.  The wealthy in this country pay a smaller share of their income in taxes than in just about any other First World country.

So, it's not like the wealthy have much to bitch about, even with Obama's plan.

We've grown so accustomed to supply side economics at this point that we've totally lost sight of our debt.  At some point, we're going to have to spend less, or else, taxes must rise.

When you add up ALL the tax's, i think you would have a heart attack.

FEOS wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

FEOS wrote:

No, there's also massive amounts of college loans that must be paid off, as well.

I'm not saying doctors are barely getting by. They make gobs of money. Never implied otherwise.

But the same is true in other countries. US doctors are paid about twice that of European doctors. If this was due to the neccessity of paying off their college fees, their college fees would have to be approximately $2-3 million dollars in excess of the college fees in Europe to account for all of the extra money they get paid, assuming they work for 30 years at the national average wage for a doctor. US doctors earn large amounts of money and neither law suits or college fees even remotely account for the differences in typical US and European doctors pay.

The only sensible reason for the high salaries of US doctors is the lack of competition that is directly due to the number of residencies that congress funds each year.

Which types of doctors are you referring to? Salaries vary widely among specialties.

Total doctors salary divided by the number of doctors.

The US government controls the number of people training for most speciality practices as well.

PureFodder wrote:

FEOS wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

But the same is true in other countries. US doctors are paid about twice that of European doctors. If this was due to the neccessity of paying off their college fees, their college fees would have to be approximately $2-3 million dollars in excess of the college fees in Europe to account for all of the extra money they get paid, assuming they work for 30 years at the national average wage for a doctor. US doctors earn large amounts of money and neither law suits or college fees even remotely account for the differences in typical US and European doctors pay.

The only sensible reason for the high salaries of US doctors is the lack of competition that is directly due to the number of residencies that congress funds each year.

Which types of doctors are you referring to? Salaries vary widely among specialties.

Total doctors salary divided by the number of doctors.

The US government controls the number of people training for most speciality practices as well.

No it doesn't. The market controls that...supply and demand.

FEOS wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Which types of doctors are you referring to? Salaries vary widely among specialties.

Total doctors salary divided by the number of doctors.

The US government controls the number of people training for most speciality practices as well.

No it doesn't. The market controls that...supply and demand.

The government is in complete control of the supply of new doctors, hence controls the market. The US government literally decides upon the number of new doctors to train each year. If they train more doctors, the wages of doctors will go down via market competition.

FEOS wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

FEOS wrote:

No it doesn't. The market controls that...supply and demand.

The government is in complete control of the supply of new doctors, hence controls the market. The US government literally decides upon the number of new doctors to train each year. If they train more doctors, the wages of doctors will go down via market competition.

No, it doesn't. Where on earth do you come up with that? The throughput of medical schools literally decides the number of new doctors trained each year, and the government doesn't control those schools.

Ok, now you're just being obtuse. As I already explained, from USA today;

The marketplace doesn't determine how many doctors the nation has, as it does for engineers, pilots and other professions. The number of doctors is a political decision, heavily influenced by doctors themselves.

Congress controls the supply of physicians by how much federal funding it provides for medical residencies — the graduate training required of all doctors....Even doctors trained in other countries must serve medical residencies in the USA to practice here.

The US government completely controls the supply of new doctors.

FEOS wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

FEOS wrote:

No, it doesn't. Where on earth do you come up with that? The throughput of medical schools literally decides the number of new doctors trained each year, and the government doesn't control those schools.

Ok, now you're just being obtuse. As I already explained, from USA today;

The marketplace doesn't determine how many doctors the nation has, as it does for engineers, pilots and other professions. The number of doctors is a political decision, heavily influenced by doctors themselves.

Congress controls the supply of physicians by how much federal funding it provides for medical residencies — the graduate training required of all doctors....Even doctors trained in other countries must serve medical residencies in the USA to practice here.

The US government completely controls the supply of new doctors.

I'm not being obtuse...the source is wrong. The government funds some residencies, but the bulk are privately funded. It's more schooling, and the students either pay for it themselves or get scholarships/fellowships (again, a mix of private/public funding, but mostly private).

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/ … /index.htm

Unveiled in 1992, they are the work of two prestigious committees that advise Congress and the Department of Health and Human Services on physician supply and Medicare: the Council on Graduate Medical Education and the Physician Payment Review Commission. The committees would put a tourniquet on residency positions, the main artery for new physicians. This year 24,000 doctors will enter residency programs in hospitals and clinics. Under the manpower plans, the first-year residency rolls would drop by 5,000. Medicare, which now pays $5 billion a year to support residency programs, would decline to fund any new slots. More primary-care doctors would be trained, but specialists would get the scalpel. A new federal commission would set strict yearly quotas for every category of doctor, from neurosurgeon to pediatrician. Under the COGME proposal, the number of primary-care residents would increase by more than 20%. The number of graduating orthopedists, dermatologists, radiologists, and other specialists would shrink by at least 40%.

http://www.nejmjobs.org/rpt/physician-immigration.aspx
http://www.visalaw.com/news/siskindindus_15mar04
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/interv … ooper.html

The message can be stated very succinctly: Build infrastructure—and in this case, infrastructure is residency programs, which means removing the caps that restrict the number at medical schools. It is not complicated.

oChaos.Haze wrote:

I hope you at least take their money everytime you play, because they obviously aren't the brightest of the bunch, hence why they are in private practice in the first place.

Are you saying that people who run private practices are stupid?