Reciprocity
Member
+721|6886|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Drakef wrote:

Reciprocity wrote:

Drakef wrote:

The creation of radical new ideologies and the uncertain economic conditions that permitted these ideologies to flourish.
I don't think Hitler invented anti-semitism but a scewed economy did help.


The actual cause was Henry Tandey.  Son of a bitch.
Anti-Semitism is not among the ideologies that I meant, and neither is that one in particular important to the cause of the Second World War.

The ones I refer to are communism and fascism. More particularly, the latter one. Overall, it was increasingly militaristic governments that were given more power by citizens desperate from the economic crisis. The electorate would not have turned to Hitler (and to a lesser degree, Mussolini, Lenin, and the various military governments of Japan) had there not have been desperation. With nothing to lose, the more radical of solutions become evident as the most likely of solutions. Make no mistake, from the major dictatorial governments to the minor powers, most of the belligerent nations were well supported by the people.

Naturally, the Treaty of Versailles not only contributed to the poor economy, primarily in Germany, and it furthered the blame in Germany upon not only other nations, but also on traditional elements of German government.
I don't disagree with you but I will add something.
Actually, in Germany, anti-semitism was an important factor.  Whereas Mussolini's fascism was rooted  in national identity, specifically above class distinction and discrimination, Hitler generated national unity by appealing specifically to the working class, the natives, by claiming that the Jews, the alien aristocracy, were the root cause of Germany's problems.  Mussolini derided socialism and the class struggle as the source of Italy's problems.  Hitler stoked the flames of Germany's class struggle specifically to gain power.  So I guess you're referring to Hitler's own brand of fascism.  Hitler used his national socialism to attain his own fascist state.

Different approaches to similiar problems to reach the same outcome.  Versailles left Germany immasculated in defeat and buried in compounding debt.  Italy was left immasculated in victory.
Kez
Member
+778|6008|London, UK
Assassination of Franz Ferdinand, which was a trigger to WWI, which eventually led to the Treaty of Versailles, which eventually led on to WWII.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

Kptk92 wrote:

Assassination of Franz Ferdinand, which was a trigger to WWI, which eventually led to the Treaty of Versailles, which eventually led on to WWII.
So why was he assassinated? Wouldn't the cause of his assassination then be the root cause of WWII using that logic?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6629|New Haven, CT

FEOS wrote:

Kptk92 wrote:

Assassination of Franz Ferdinand, which was a trigger to WWI, which eventually led to the Treaty of Versailles, which eventually led on to WWII.
So why was he assassinated? Wouldn't the cause of his assassination then be the root cause of WWII using that logic?
Because some Serbian hated Austria. But then we have to see why Serbia hated Austria, and why Austria decided to do whatever it was to Serbia that cause them to hate Austria, and so on and so forth.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6458|what

nukchebi0 wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Kptk92 wrote:

Assassination of Franz Ferdinand, which was a trigger to WWI, which eventually led to the Treaty of Versailles, which eventually led on to WWII.
So why was he assassinated? Wouldn't the cause of his assassination then be the root cause of WWII using that logic?
Because some Serbian hated Austria. But then we have to see why Serbia hated Austria, and why Austria decided to do whatever it was to Serbia that cause them to hate Austria, and so on and so forth.
You can't put it down to just that one move though.

Both Germany and Britain had started production of arms well in advance of the outbreak of WW1. They knew it was coming.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
wah1188
You orrible caaaaaaan't
+321|6765|UK

Reciprocity wrote:

Drakef wrote:

The creation of radical new ideologies and the uncertain economic conditions that permitted these ideologies to flourish.
I don't think Hitler invented anti-semitism but a scewed economy did help.


The actual cause was Henry Tandey.  Son of a bitch.
Thank you for that I never knew about that.
nukchebi0
Пушкин, наше всё
+387|6629|New Haven, CT

TheAussieReaper wrote:

nukchebi0 wrote:

FEOS wrote:


So why was he assassinated? Wouldn't the cause of his assassination then be the root cause of WWII using that logic?
Because some Serbian hated Austria. But then we have to see why Serbia hated Austria, and why Austria decided to do whatever it was to Serbia that cause them to hate Austria, and so on and so forth.
You can't put it down to just that one move though.

Both Germany and Britain had started production of arms well in advance of the outbreak of WW1. They knew it was coming.
I know, but the discussion wasn't pertaining to anything other than the Archduke Ferdinand's assassination.
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6454|'straya
Treaty of Versailles + Economic Crisis + Large Debt + Humiliation + Loss of Pride + Need for a scapegoat + Appeasement = Hitlers Rise to power.

I read somewhere that Hitler gave direct instructions to the soldiers that re-took German land from the French (before the official start of WWII) that if a single shot of resistance was fired they were to retreat. if Brittan/France had stepped in early.... it could have prevented the war or made it a mush smaller war. i believe that the conditions allowed Hitler to come to power, and Europe's in-action allowed the start of WWII.

Last edited by Little BaBy JESUS (2008-10-22 23:53:49)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

I read somewhere that Hitler gave direct instructions to the soldiers that re-took German land from the French (before the official start of WWII) that if a single shot of resistance was fired they were to retreat. if Brittan/France had stepped in early.... it could have prevented the war or made it a mush smaller war.
What you have written there can't possibly be true, because the French did fight back. They were just horrifically ineffective.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6454|'straya

FEOS wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

I read somewhere that Hitler gave direct instructions to the soldiers that re-took German land from the French (before the official start of WWII) that if a single shot of resistance was fired they were to retreat. if Brittan/France had stepped in early.... it could have prevented the war or made it a mush smaller war.
What you have written there can't possibly be true, because the French did fight back. They were just horrifically ineffective.
It might be an exageration. but im not talking about the invasion of France... but the reclaiming of German land occupied by france.

this happened a year or so before the start of the war. but it might not be true... but if i recall correctly it was taken out of the diary of a German general
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

I read somewhere that Hitler gave direct instructions to the soldiers that re-took German land from the French (before the official start of WWII) that if a single shot of resistance was fired they were to retreat. if Brittan/France had stepped in early.... it could have prevented the war or made it a mush smaller war.
What you have written there can't possibly be true, because the French did fight back. They were just horrifically ineffective.
It might be an exageration. but im not talking about the invasion of France... but the reclaiming of German land occupied by france.

this happened a year or so before the start of the war. but it might not be true... but if i recall correctly it was taken out of the diary of a German general
You're talking about the Alsace-Lorraine region of France. It was annexed by Germany in 1940...after the start of the war but shortly prior to the start of hostilities with France.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6454|'straya

FEOS wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

FEOS wrote:


What you have written there can't possibly be true, because the French did fight back. They were just horrifically ineffective.
It might be an exageration. but im not talking about the invasion of France... but the reclaiming of German land occupied by france.

this happened a year or so before the start of the war. but it might not be true... but if i recall correctly it was taken out of the diary of a German general
You're talking about the Alsace-Lorraine region of France. It was annexed by Germany in 1940...after the start of the war but shortly prior to the start of hostilities with France.
nah im talking about a industrial region of germany (for get the exact region) that was taken by the french in the treaty of versailles. and the germans reclaimed it around 1938. just before they were given parts of Cezchosovakia by the french and brittish in an attempt to appease hitler
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

It might be an exageration. but im not talking about the invasion of France... but the reclaiming of German land occupied by france.

this happened a year or so before the start of the war. but it might not be true... but if i recall correctly it was taken out of the diary of a German general
You're talking about the Alsace-Lorraine region of France. It was annexed by Germany in 1940...after the start of the war but shortly prior to the start of hostilities with France.
nah im talking about a industrial region of germany (for get the exact region) that was taken by the french in the treaty of versailles. and the germans reclaimed it around 1938. just before they were given parts of Cezchosovakia by the french and brittish in an attempt to appease hitler
The area you're thinking of is Alsace:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/German_losses_after_WWI.svg/707px-German_losses_after_WWI.svg.png

The area on the SW of the map is Alsace-Lorraine. Large industrial area. You can see it was the only area given to France as part of the ToV.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6805|so randum

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:


It might be an exageration. but im not talking about the invasion of France... but the reclaiming of German land occupied by france.

this happened a year or so before the start of the war. but it might not be true... but if i recall correctly it was taken out of the diary of a German general
You're talking about the Alsace-Lorraine region of France. It was annexed by Germany in 1940...after the start of the war but shortly prior to the start of hostilities with France.
nah im talking about a industrial region of germany (for get the exact region) that was taken by the french in the treaty of versailles. and the germans reclaimed it around 1938. just before they were given parts of Cezchosovakia by the french and brittish in an attempt to appease hitler
Saarland?
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6488|Ireland
The French, Soviets, Italians, Irish, and Polish all being pussies and unwilling to stand up to a brutal dictator. 

I am sure glad Europe learned this lesson back then though so they won't make that mistake agai...  aw, nevermind.

Last edited by Lotta_Drool (2008-10-23 07:04:28)

imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Treaty of Versailles + Economic Crisis + Large Debt + Humiliation + Loss of Pride + Need for a scapegoat + Appeasement = Hitlers Rise to power.
But is was the Treaty of Versailles that caused all the rest of that...
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6458|what

imortal wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Treaty of Versailles + Economic Crisis + Large Debt + Humiliation + Loss of Pride + Need for a scapegoat + Appeasement = Hitlers Rise to power.
But is was the Treaty of Versailles that caused all the rest of that...
Treaty of Versailles didn't cause the great depression.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

TheAussieReaper wrote:

imortal wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

Treaty of Versailles + Economic Crisis + Large Debt + Humiliation + Loss of Pride + Need for a scapegoat + Appeasement = Hitlers Rise to power.
But is was the Treaty of Versailles that caused all the rest of that...
Treaty of Versailles didn't cause the great depression.
No...Bush did.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Marinejuana
local
+415|6890|Seattle
The primary cause of world war 2. There isn't a single cause, but here are a few:

1. Creation of Israel as a Western controlled base in the heart of the middle east, one of the only unconquered regions remaining in the world (rofl if someone calls China unconquered and independent, I know most of you think that).

2. Establishing the need for world government. If the bankers hadn't funded Hitlers insane war machine, the globalist UN could not have been promoted. Additionally, it would not have been possible to justify the need for a vast global-centrally controlled military force without first finding an "enemy" on an equal scale. For that matter, it would not have been justifiable for the United States, the strong arm of the UN, to amass its disgusting Nazi force that today we largely view as inevitable and justified based on our collective experience of Hitler's third reich.

3. The corporations. After the great depression, most small businesses sold their property and assets to the banking class to make ends meet. The war made it possible to fill the industrial void with great corporations in the Americas and state controlled programs in Eastern Europe/Asia that today comprise the backbone of world politics.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6773

Marinejuana wrote:

The primary cause of world war 2. There isn't a single cause, but here are a few:

1. Creation of Israel as a Western controlled base in the heart of the middle east, one of the only unconquered regions remaining in the world (rofl if someone calls China unconquered and independent, I know most of you think that).

2. Establishing the need for world government. If the bankers hadn't funded Hitlers insane war machine, the globalist UN could not have been promoted. Additionally, it would not have been possible to justify the need for a vast global-centrally controlled military force without first finding an "enemy" on an equal scale. For that matter, it would not have been justifiable for the United States, the strong arm of the UN, to amass its disgusting Nazi force that today we largely view as inevitable and justified based on our collective experience of Hitler's third reich.

3. The corporations. After the great depression, most small businesses sold their property and assets to the banking class to make ends meet. The war made it possible to fill the industrial void with great corporations in the Americas and state controlled programs in Eastern Europe/Asia that today comprise the backbone of world politics.
You can think that. Everyone else can have fun in the real world.
Marinejuana
local
+415|6890|Seattle

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

You can think that. Everyone else can have fun in the real world.
<3
rdx-fx
...
+955|6896

Marinejuana wrote:

The primary cause of world war 2. There isn't a single cause, but here are a few:

1. Creation of Israel as a Western controlled base in the heart of the middle east, one of the only unconquered regions remaining in the world (rofl if someone calls China unconquered and independent, I know most of you think that).

2. Establishing the need for world government. If the bankers hadn't funded Hitlers insane war machine, the globalist UN could not have been promoted. Additionally, it would not have been possible to justify the need for a vast global-centrally controlled military force without first finding an "enemy" on an equal scale. For that matter, it would not have been justifiable for the United States, the strong arm of the UN, to amass its disgusting Nazi force that today we largely view as inevitable and justified based on our collective experience of Hitler's third reich.

3. The corporations. After the great depression, most small businesses sold their property and assets to the banking class to make ends meet. The war made it possible to fill the industrial void with great corporations in the Americas and state controlled programs in Eastern Europe/Asia that today comprise the backbone of world politics.
1.  Israel wasn't founded until May 14, 1948.  World War 2 ended with the surrender of Japan on August 15, 1945.  So, a nation founded in 1948 was responsible for a war that started in 1939, almost 10 years before?.

2 & 3.  but.. but.. duuuuuuuuuude.  You forgot about the NSA, the CIA, the grassy gnoll...  and .... duuuuuuuuude this is some good shit!  tighten my tinfoil hat, the black helicopters might bust us with this shit!  They'd send us to Guacamole Bay for that!!

Edit:  #4 and Deckard was a replicant.

Last edited by rdx-fx (2008-10-23 23:25:10)

imortal
Member
+240|6970|Austin, TX

Marinejuana wrote:

The primary cause of world war 2. There isn't a single cause, but here are a few:

1. Creation of Israel as a Western controlled base in the heart of the middle east, one of the only unconquered regions remaining in the world (rofl if someone calls China unconquered and independent, I know most of you think that).
Seriously, dude?  Put down the joint and pick up a history book.  Isreal was created afterWW2.  Unless you are somehow hinting that WW2 was started in order to have an excuse to create Isreal, in which case you need to check your tinfoil hat at the door.
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6886|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Marinejuana wrote:

The primary cause of world war 2. There isn't a single cause, but here are a few:

1. Creation of Israel as a Western controlled base in the heart of the middle east, one of the only unconquered regions remaining in the world (rofl if someone calls China unconquered and independent, I know most of you think that).
quoted for posterity.
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6454|'straya

FatherTed wrote:

Little BaBy JESUS wrote:

FEOS wrote:


You're talking about the Alsace-Lorraine region of France. It was annexed by Germany in 1940...after the start of the war but shortly prior to the start of hostilities with France.
nah im talking about a industrial region of germany (for get the exact region) that was taken by the french in the treaty of versailles. and the germans reclaimed it around 1938. just before they were given parts of Cezchosovakia by the french and brittish in an attempt to appease hitler
Saarland?
Could be... i honestly dont remember.... but i know it wasnt Alsace-Lorraine. i think it happened very early on... like 1935-37. (i know this is off topic lol)

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