BF2S Forums When does life begin?

IRONCHEF wrote:

Life starts when cells combine, technically since it is "growing."  I personally and spiritually believe that around 2-3 weeks into it when the heart beats, you have a living soul.

As for the poor scriptural reference citing the first souls who God gave breath and created living souls, that is unapplicable since children are not created that way..they are created in utero. 

As for those with experience, mothers, they KNOW when there's a life in them if they're sensitive to it.  There's no mistaking the moment when the spirit enters that tiny little embryo and gives it life.  But murdering, insensitive, mutant humans who don't regard life with any sanctity need the child to survive on it's own, or count to ten before it's a viable life form.  THis is a sad world.  Under any other condition, that little life has meaning, purpose, and should be protected at any cost...except if it's in some stupid slut who got knocked up again and wants it out of her.

As for "choice" to protect their bodies and choose for themselves what to do, they made their choice when they had unprotected sex.  After that, they are including another life and are therefore MURDERING a life.  It's that simple.

Murdering? Insensitive? Mutant humans (wat)?

You don't think the mother has any rights, or a rape victim. Who's the insensitive one?


Go abortion.

IRONCHEF wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

Life actually begins upon fertilisation, but I don't regard that as entirely relevant to the question of abortion. I think the ability to survive unaided is the important factor.

So in your "natural selection" theory, if your beloved parents, siblings, or other relatives can't support themselves, they too are less than human?  They should be yanked from this mortal coil?

They aren't biologically reliant on another organism. They are merely reliant on others.

jord wrote:

You don't think the mother has any rights, or a rape victim. Who's the insensitive one?  Go abortion.

The mother has the right to take the necessary measures to prevent pregnancy.  After that point, the mother has the responsibility to care for the new life within her.  Your focus on the mother's rights to the total exclusion of the baby's right to live is the definition of insensitivity.  A child is not a negative result of sexuality!  Regarding rape victims, that is a much more difficult situation.  However, having an abortion will not heal her pain and only multiply the tragedy.

Stingray24 wrote:

jord wrote:

You don't think the mother has any rights, or a rape victim. Who's the insensitive one?  Go abortion.

The mother has the right to take the necessary measures to prevent pregnancy.  After that point, the mother has the responsibility to care for the new life within her.  Your focus on the mother's rights to the total exclusion of the baby's right to live is the definition of insensitivity.  A child is not a negative result of sexuality!  Regarding rape victims, that is a much more difficult situation.  However, having an abortion will not heal her pain and only multiply the tragedy.

And having the baby will not be a tragedy? Seeing the face of the man who raped her everyday. Knowing the Baby was not planned nor wanted, nor loved...

Regarding "insensitivity", see if from my opinion. I don't regard a cell as life, I feel no care for it, or "sensitivity". It is nothing, it has no mind. It isn't aware of it's existence.

jord wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

jord wrote:

You don't think the mother has any rights, or a rape victim. Who's the insensitive one?  Go abortion.

The mother has the right to take the necessary measures to prevent pregnancy.  After that point, the mother has the responsibility to care for the new life within her.  Your focus on the mother's rights to the total exclusion of the baby's right to live is the definition of insensitivity.  A child is not a negative result of sexuality!  Regarding rape victims, that is a much more difficult situation.  However, having an abortion will not heal her pain and only multiply the tragedy.

And having the baby will not be a tragedy? Seeing the face of the man who raped her everyday. Knowing the Baby was not planned nor wanted, nor loved...

Regarding "insensitivity", see if from my opinion. I don't regard a cell as life, I feel no care for it, or "sensitivity". It is nothing, it has no mind. It isn't aware of it's existence.

Do you have a wife who's been pregnant, and you wanted it?  Have you asked your wife if she values that little group of cells as life?  If not, then no, you can't possibly understand if it's a life or not.  The problem is, people with that lack of reality are the ones deciding legislation to go ahead to sluts across the world to murder.

IRONCHEF wrote:

jord wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

The mother has the right to take the necessary measures to prevent pregnancy.  After that point, the mother has the responsibility to care for the new life within her.  Your focus on the mother's rights to the total exclusion of the baby's right to live is the definition of insensitivity.  A child is not a negative result of sexuality!  Regarding rape victims, that is a much more difficult situation.  However, having an abortion will not heal her pain and only multiply the tragedy.

And having the baby will not be a tragedy? Seeing the face of the man who raped her everyday. Knowing the Baby was not planned nor wanted, nor loved...

Regarding "insensitivity", see if from my opinion. I don't regard a cell as life, I feel no care for it, or "sensitivity". It is nothing, it has no mind. It isn't aware of it's existence.

Do you have a wife who's been pregnant, and you wanted it?  Have you asked your wife if she values that little group of cells as life?  If not, then no, you can't possibly understand if it's a life or not.  The problem is, people with that lack of reality are the ones deciding legislation to go ahead to sluts across the world to murder.

Wait, what? So nobody who isn't pregnant can't debate at what stage life is life? Well I'm sure glad we finally found a way to end this debate...

Works both ways, you aren't exactly on the mothers side. You know... The people who are the main person in most child's life and have to give birth and raise the children...

jord wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

jord wrote:

You don't think the mother has any rights, or a rape victim. Who's the insensitive one?  Go abortion.

The mother has the right to take the necessary measures to prevent pregnancy.  After that point, the mother has the responsibility to care for the new life within her.  Your focus on the mother's rights to the total exclusion of the baby's right to live is the definition of insensitivity.  A child is not a negative result of sexuality!  Regarding rape victims, that is a much more difficult situation.  However, having an abortion will not heal her pain and only multiply the tragedy.

And having the baby will not be a tragedy? Seeing the face of the man who raped her everyday. Knowing the Baby was not planned nor wanted, nor loved...

Regarding "insensitivity", see if from my opinion. I don't regard a cell as life, I feel no care for it, or "sensitivity". It is nothing, it has no mind. It isn't aware of it's existence.

I would leave the decision to the victim as she truly had no choice in the conception.  However, it most certainly will compound the tragedy to cut the baby's life short.  Adoption is a valid option, but again, left to the decision of the victim.  You seem to view pregnancy as a huge tragedy whether rape is involved or not by placing the mother's right to convenience above all else.

Stingray24 wrote:

jord wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

The mother has the right to take the necessary measures to prevent pregnancy.  After that point, the mother has the responsibility to care for the new life within her.  Your focus on the mother's rights to the total exclusion of the baby's right to live is the definition of insensitivity.  A child is not a negative result of sexuality!  Regarding rape victims, that is a much more difficult situation.  However, having an abortion will not heal her pain and only multiply the tragedy.

And having the baby will not be a tragedy? Seeing the face of the man who raped her everyday. Knowing the Baby was not planned nor wanted, nor loved...

Regarding "insensitivity", see if from my opinion. I don't regard a cell as life, I feel no care for it, or "sensitivity". It is nothing, it has no mind. It isn't aware of it's existence.

I would leave the decision to the victim as she truly had no choice in the conception.  However, it most certainly will compound the tragedy to cut the baby's life short.  Adoption is a valid option, but again, left to the decision of the victim.  You seem to view pregnancy as a huge tragedy whether rape is involved or not by placing the mother's right to convenience above all else.

It isn't a huge inconvenience; if your prepared and truly want the child; it's the opposite. But, when you don't it isn't just an inconvenience - it is truly an unwanted pregnancy. It isn't more than what it is - until that unwanted pregnancy then becomes an unwanted child. No one should be forced to go through a pregnancy (as pregnancy in humans does propose a certain amount of risk to the mother); because of how I, you or somebody elses personally feels; or disagrees; about a metaphysical question that cannot be answered. There is no proof only belief.

Last edited by topal63 (2008-10-21 11:16:14)

In Scripture there is a verse where John the Baptist leaped with joy in his Mother's Womb.

Me life begins at conception considering that is where the genetic traits already meet and are developing a specific human being. That will always be my belief despite being Christian.

There are some cases even when the baby is born earlier than 9 months, and take the first breath of life, so I don't think taking a breathing is a factor when it comes to when life begins.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? … 2FShowFull

You can't make cases that over 3 billion recorded total abortions over the world (that was a 1990's fact I don't know about the new millennium numbers) would grow up to be crime producers. It can also deal with people purposely being born yet still commit mortal crimes.

Children born from rape or incest victims should be considered as different individuals and are not at fault. Even if they share genetic traits from the incest enforcer or rapist it comes down to later life choices, environment, and parenting.

You can put the child up for adoption too.

Last edited by Warhammer (2008-10-21 11:50:18)

Approximately 542,000 children were in the foster care system in the United States as of September 30, 2001.

The number of licensed nonrelative foster homes is 155,355

Age of Children in Foster Care
According to the 2001 Adoption and Foster Care Analysis and Reporting System (AFCARS) Report, the estimated average age of children in foster care was 10.1 years.
Age breakdown of children in foster care:
                 Age Group                Percentage                    Number of Children
          Younger than1 year                  4%                                     22,957
          Age 1-5                                 24%                                   130,857
          Age 6-10 years                      24%                                   127,711
          Age 11-15 years                    30%                                   160,419
          Age 16-18 years                    17%                                     89,632
          Over 18                                  2%                                      10,424

and how many of you pro-lifers have adopted children or know someone with adopted children? In my experiances the people who are raising the stink about it or not trying to cause a solution to the problem..

Oh and I'll get back on topic.. Life began a long time ago and is a giant circle of living breathing things.. So last night what I did to myself wasn't killing 1 billion babies it was actually adding to the circle of life.

War hamer we all end up in the same place?

It is what it is and that's not your choice.. Yeah fantastic Christians have plans for there own children and no one is saying "hey you have to adopt a child before you can have your own", so sorry it's not part of your master plan but it's not my choice either.  It's the persons choice who is pregnant, so stick to your own family and "he who is without sin cast the first stone"

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Oh and I'll get back on topic.. Life began a long time ago and is a giant circle of living breathing things.. So last night what I did to myself wasn't killing 1 billion babies it was actually adding to the circle of life.

Oooooh, I did not want to hear what you did last night. You do realize your contribution alone does not create life, so you don't get credit for killing anything.