Varegg wrote:
Examples ?mikkel wrote:
No, the waiting lists become longer. The most developed welfare states with the most comprehensive socialised healthcare programmes have more people dying waiting for treatment than almost all other developed countries.DonFck wrote:
The waiting lists become shorter as funds are directed towards public healthcare.
Most people in these countries have. I'm happy for you that you haven't.DonFck wrote:
Interestingly enough, I have yet to experience this. Having lived my entire life in one of "the most developed welfare states with the most comprehensive socialised healthcare programmes" (as you put it), I should have noticed that by now.. Hmm..mikkel wrote:
No, the waiting lists become longer. The most developed welfare states with the most comprehensive socialised healthcare programmes have more people dying waiting for treatment than almost all other developed countries.DonFck wrote:
The waiting lists become shorter as funds are directed towards public healthcare.
Last edited by mikkel (2008-10-20 11:10:56)
Well, thankfully the world of healthcare isn't black and white. I think these discussions are mostly concerned about political ideals on opposite sides of spectrums, rather than actual healthcare, and by extension, taking positive aspects from either side is often seen as unnecessary concession by the other side. I feel that the sweet spot is somewhere in between, and that healthcare should be a guaranteed aid to the needy, rather than being a guaranteed right to the many.CameronPoe wrote:
Better a country with a waiting list than a country with, for many, no list at all.
Last edited by mikkel (2008-10-20 11:17:54)
Last edited by Braddock (2008-10-20 11:21:31)
I haven't defended the US healthcare system at all.Braddock wrote:
@ Mikkel
But I don't understand how you can hold up a healthcare system based ion privatisation as a shining example of an alternative. There are people in the US who can't even get medical insurance because of conditions such as diabetes, mild heart problems and even in some examples prior cases of yeast infections. What are these people supposed to do, pray that God will intervene and squeeze their name onto a list somewhere? The underlying principle of medical care as a profit-driven market results in every possible corner being cut in order to maximise profit... that's how Capitalism works, that's why soccer balls are sewn in Pakistan and not in New York, that's why Apple Macs are built in China and not in California. If you are a liability for a medical insurance company they will say thanks but no thanks to your business. If your medical insurer can find some loophole or reason not to sign off on your transplant procedure or cancer treatment, well then that is what they will do.
And what does McCain want to do with the healthcare system? Deregulate it even further. I know what flawed system I'm happier with.
I read your other post above, about a balance between the two options. That's what we have in Ireland... does Denmark not have the same? If you are well off and can afford it you can purchase private healthcare and if you are below a certain income level you get national health care, which is not as quick or high-quality but is still there for you if you get sick.mikkel wrote:
I haven't defended the US healthcare system at all.Braddock wrote:
@ Mikkel
But I don't understand how you can hold up a healthcare system based ion privatisation as a shining example of an alternative. There are people in the US who can't even get medical insurance because of conditions such as diabetes, mild heart problems and even in some examples prior cases of yeast infections. What are these people supposed to do, pray that God will intervene and squeeze their name onto a list somewhere? The underlying principle of medical care as a profit-driven market results in every possible corner being cut in order to maximise profit... that's how Capitalism works, that's why soccer balls are sewn in Pakistan and not in New York, that's why Apple Macs are built in China and not in California. If you are a liability for a medical insurance company they will say thanks but no thanks to your business. If your medical insurer can find some loophole or reason not to sign off on your transplant procedure or cancer treatment, well then that is what they will do.
And what does McCain want to do with the healthcare system? Deregulate it even further. I know what flawed system I'm happier with.
Ty Varegg. Thats sweet of u to say *blush*Varegg wrote:
Socialism never hurt anybody, your egocentric lifestyle ends with Obama *Muhahahahahahaha*
Seriously lowing, sharing is caring and makes for a better society ... just look north to Canada, their whole attitude is better than yours and you can mix capitalism with socialism you know ...
You can if you've got the money, yes, but then you end up paying twice for the same service. Here in Denmark, the middle class accounts for the biggest share of government healthcare spendings, and that always seemed strange to me. If healthcare was a guaranteed aid to the needy, and if the middle class and above could be cut out, then the healthcare portion of the income tax could be cut from 8% to less than 4%, everyone would get a nice tax break, which could appropriately go towards private insurance for those not covered by the healthcare aid.Braddock wrote:
I read your other post above, about a balance between the two options. That's what we have in Ireland... does Denmark not have the same? If you are well off and can afford it you can purchase private healthcare and if you are below a certain income level you get national health care, which is not as quick or high-quality but is still there for you if you get sick.mikkel wrote:
I haven't defended the US healthcare system at all.Braddock wrote:
@ Mikkel
But I don't understand how you can hold up a healthcare system based ion privatisation as a shining example of an alternative. There are people in the US who can't even get medical insurance because of conditions such as diabetes, mild heart problems and even in some examples prior cases of yeast infections. What are these people supposed to do, pray that God will intervene and squeeze their name onto a list somewhere? The underlying principle of medical care as a profit-driven market results in every possible corner being cut in order to maximise profit... that's how Capitalism works, that's why soccer balls are sewn in Pakistan and not in New York, that's why Apple Macs are built in China and not in California. If you are a liability for a medical insurance company they will say thanks but no thanks to your business. If your medical insurer can find some loophole or reason not to sign off on your transplant procedure or cancer treatment, well then that is what they will do.
And what does McCain want to do with the healthcare system? Deregulate it even further. I know what flawed system I'm happier with.
You can see the current problem on Cribs where celebrities have a 10,000+ sq. ft. home and 15 cars in their driveway/garage. The economy will work much better if the difference of country wide income extremes become narrower.lowing wrote:
"spread the wealth around" http://www.breitbart.tv/html/195153.html
This is the reason not to vote for Obama. What he wants to do is have govt. control over your money. When has it become the govts. job to seize money for the purpose of "spreading it around". Folks this is socialist/communist ideology and it goes against everything the US was meant to be.
Which is freedom to succeed, not guaranteed to succeed. Equal opportunity, not equal results.
and now we have this gallop poll which says only 13% of "national adults" are in favor of doing what Obama wants to do, yet, with the economy as the #1 concern for the voters, Obama is still leading in the polls. http://www.gallup.com/poll/108445/Ameri … onomy.aspx
Stupidity and a lack of quality informed liberal voters comes to mind. Maybe issues and not race or good looks,or celebrity, should be what motivates voters after all, this year.
Last edited by The#1Spot (2008-10-20 13:02:19)
Not everyone is in for capitalism, some people defend the point that socialism is the way to go (me included). I don't give a shit if you're a millionaire, if you've got money and someone is dying of hunger, I would take money from you to feed the hungry.lowing wrote:
"spread the wealth around" http://www.breitbart.tv/html/195153.html
This is the reason not to vote for Obama. What he wants to do is have govt. control over your money. When has it become the govts. job to seize money for the purpose of "spreading it around". Folks this is socialist/communist ideology and it goes against everything the US was meant to be.
Which is freedom to succeed, not guaranteed to succeed. Equal opportunity, not equal results.
and now we have this gallop poll which says only 13% of "national adults" are in favor of doing what Obama wants to do, yet, with the economy as the #1 concern for the voters, Obama is still leading in the polls. http://www.gallup.com/poll/108445/Ameri … onomy.aspx
Stupidity and a lack of quality informed liberal voters comes to mind. Maybe issues and not race or good looks,or celebrity, should be what motivates voters after all, this year.
God Save the Queen wrote:
I want my "I voted" sticker
Last edited by Poseidon (2008-10-20 16:00:17)
That would be great, ya drama queen, except that is not what we are talking about it is it? We are talking about America, ya know, the country where poverty means not being able to afford the latest video card for your computer?MGS3_GrayFox wrote:
Not everyone is in for capitalism, some people defend the point that socialism is the way to go (me included). I don't give a shit if you're a millionaire, if you've got money and someone is dying of hunger, I would take money from you to feed the hungry.lowing wrote:
"spread the wealth around" http://www.breitbart.tv/html/195153.html
This is the reason not to vote for Obama. What he wants to do is have govt. control over your money. When has it become the govts. job to seize money for the purpose of "spreading it around". Folks this is socialist/communist ideology and it goes against everything the US was meant to be.
Which is freedom to succeed, not guaranteed to succeed. Equal opportunity, not equal results.
and now we have this gallop poll which says only 13% of "national adults" are in favor of doing what Obama wants to do, yet, with the economy as the #1 concern for the voters, Obama is still leading in the polls. http://www.gallup.com/poll/108445/Ameri … onomy.aspx
Stupidity and a lack of quality informed liberal voters comes to mind. Maybe issues and not race or good looks,or celebrity, should be what motivates voters after all, this year.
For the last "10 minutes" you have been been pushing a socialist agenda, to a person that does not want govt. control over my life. So naturally it is a tough position for you to defend, so giving up is something I do not blame you for at all.DonFck wrote:
For the last 10 minutes I've been trying to come up with a reply, but alas, I cannot. It feels like an overwhelming task to explain how a system works to some.
You're on your own, I give up.
So lowing, before you go any further, is this the same socialist agenda you think University teachers are pushing also?lowing wrote:
For the last "10 minutes" you have been been pushing a socialist agenda
People are living on the streets in America. The homeless line up outside soup kitchens or scavenge from garbage bins.lowing wrote:
We are talking about America, ya know, the country where poverty means not being able to afford the latest video card for your computer?
Tell ya what, instead of trying maneuver me, why don't you just come out and say what it is you want to say and get to a point. If ya had one, and I will agree or disagree with you.TheAussieReaper wrote:
So lowing, before you go any further, is this the same socialist agenda you think University teachers are pushing also?lowing wrote:
For the last "10 minutes" you have been been pushing a socialist agenda
Welfare, social programs and charity is already established in America, are you unaware of this fact?TheAussieReaper wrote:
People are living on the streets in America. The homeless line up outside soup kitchens or scavenge from garbage bins.lowing wrote:
We are talking about America, ya know, the country where poverty means not being able to afford the latest video card for your computer?
Are you unaware of this fact?
So the poverty line starts at the point you can't afford the latest video card, because there are welfare and social programs?lowing wrote:
Welfare, social programs and charity is already established in America, are you unaware of this fact?