BF2S Forums An Obama observation

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

I dunno where to post this, so I'll post it here. I lol'd at this

http://www.palinaspresident.com/

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 3#p2343503


search noob

FEOS wrote:

Braddock wrote:

McCain was friends with a war criminal responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands Iraqis and several thousand Americans and he seems to be getting let off lightly on it.

Someone has been convicted of war crimes? Who was that?

Nations with UN Security Council vetoes and those that don´t recognize the international court of human rights don´t tend to get tried for war crimes. I see Russia got off with Chechnya, France got off with Algeria, the UK got off with Northern Ireland and China got off with Tibet too.

Braddock wrote:

Schittloaf wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Voting for Obama then?

SOCIALISM IS NOT FREEDOM . IT'S GOVERNMENT CONTROLED SOCIETY

SOCIALISM IS JUST AS FREE AS CAPITALISM AND TYPING WITH CAPS LOCK ON DOESN'T CHANGE THAT.

Read God Save The Queen's post... you're no more free with your Republican, Capitalist Government than we are here in Europe with Socialism. You're only free in the US as long as you don't mind paying shitloads in tax towards war, have no intentions of having an abortion or marrying a member of the same sex and don't mind the state deciding when and when not to kill people.

This is a bunch of bullshit Braddock and you know it.

We are supposed to free to decide for ourselves and reap the rewards or the consequences for our decisions. I do not want to "share the wealth" I want YOU to find your fucking helping hand at the bottom of your own fucking arm and not mine. I will give to charity as I see fit and not have it govt. dictitated to me.

If you want socialism fine, plenty of countries that offer it. THIS country offers a chance for you decide for yourself.

He is a war criminal.  He just hasn't been convicted.  It doesn't change the man's character.

Is OJ Simpson a murderer?  Yes, he is, regardless of the outcome of his trial or the fact that he even had a trial.

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

Schittloaf wrote:

SOCIALISM IS NOT FREEDOM . IT'S GOVERNMENT CONTROLED SOCIETY

SOCIALISM IS JUST AS FREE AS CAPITALISM AND TYPING WITH CAPS LOCK ON DOESN'T CHANGE THAT.

Read God Save The Queen's post... you're no more free with your Republican, Capitalist Government than we are here in Europe with Socialism. You're only free in the US as long as you don't mind paying shitloads in tax towards war, have no intentions of having an abortion or marrying a member of the same sex and don't mind the state deciding when and when not to kill people.

This is a bunch of bullshit Braddock and you know it.

We are supposed to free to decide for ourselves and reap the rewards or the consequences for our decisions. I do not want to "share the wealth" I want YOU to find your fucking helping hand at the bottom of your own fucking arm and not mine. I will give to charity as I see fit and not have it govt. dictitated to me.

If you want socialism fine, plenty of countries that offer it. THIS country offers a chance for you decide for yourself.

Socialism is not freedom?

FYI
Socialist economies are planned economies
Regualtion of the market just makes good common sense because capitalist markets are inherently self destructive... just look at what's going on right now.
The market must be regulated.... and that's a far cry from a socialist planned economy

You know the government has only one job and that's to protect its citizens and in a capitalist society that's protection from
1. outside threat
2. criminal threat and
3. negative effects of the market

In a democracy the people have every right to see that the market functions properly and to their benefit and where the market is broken or requires regulation to prevent abuses, the people have every right to see that bad acts are stopped... sorry to disappoint but that's not socialism. Everyone knows that capitalist markets are inherently self destructive and require some form of regulation to stop or at least mitigate crashes... that's not socialism.

Government is by the people and FOR the people. Unfortunately here in the US in the last 20 or 30 years the role of government has been twisted 180 degrees. I find it really interesting that people now think that a capitalist government is supposed to offer up its citizens like lambs to be sacrifices on the altar of the market and that any kind of protection of the citizens is now considered "socialism." What a bunch of bull!

Its interesting that semantics really shows the underlying thoughts behind the arguments

the common argument for regulation and taxation = socialism is really just greedy people trying prevent the government from taking their money.
On the other hand when the greedy people want a hand out they come up with a market driven explanation like
1. give me $$$ I create jobs
2. give me $$$ the market is broken

I guess the leftists should really move away from the social justice discourse and through the magic of semantics couch their agendas in "market speak." With all ideas speaking the same language then at least direct comparisons could be drawn as the economic effectiveness of of these different plans instead of bogging down in the your a socialist rhetoric.

I have learned one thing from seeing all these new found "socialists" on wall street who are crying for bail outs... its an argument that the bail outs are necessary when the market is broken.

Well here is my new market speak argument for universal health care... since some 30 million people are without coverage, people are going bankrupt even when they have health insurance because of costs, businesses cannot afford premiums, the costs are spiralling out of control, these factors mean that the health care market is broken and requires a bailout and regulation to prevent future crashes in the health care market.

Now, if a person or a group, ie insurance companies, is unable to make money because these rules are in place to prevent the markets negative consequences it means that what ever these people were attempting to do would have resulted in causing those negative consequences, so in that context its not socialism Its just good market regulation designed to prevent a crash.

I bet I could even use market speak to come up with an argument for "share the wealth"
How about
Give me $$$, I'm a consumer and my spending is the backbone of the economy and I create jobs.
I guess that would make "share the wealth people" into heros of capitalism. God Bless Obama he's a hero of capitalism!
I'm sure YOUR sacrifice would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Diesel_dyk (2008-10-18 20:36:37)

mccain associates himself with convicted felons

oh yeah, and this

Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-10-18 22:09:23)

-CARNIFEX-[LOC] wrote:

lowing wrote:

Isn't it funny that in order for Obama to be president he has to DIS-associate or himself, or deny associations with so many people and groups from his past

1. ACORN
2. Tony Resko
3. Bill Ayers
4. Rev. Wright.

Why? and why would he do so ONLY when it became politically imperative to do so? More importantly, why is he getting a pass for all of this?

Seems like Obama has a lot to hide or is ashamed of.

Seriously, the only one of these that has any impact whatsoever on my opinion on Obama as a person is Tony Resko.  That whole situation is rather shady, just as the whole Whitewater situation with Clinton was kind of shady...


ACORN -- fake people can't vote!!! Unless "Mickey Mouse" and "Donald Duck" show up to actually vote, in which case their vote will be summarily denied based on the fact that they aren't real people, then I'm not worried.  Fake people can't vote!!!!!!!! (Can't stress that enough...)  This is a case of employee time theft, plain and simple...they employ people for $8 an hour, and this is one of the unfortunate results.

Bill Ayers -- yeah, he has been associated with this d-bag, insofar as serving on the same board as him, and receiving a couple hundred bucks from an early campaign event staged by him, but seriously, it's not like this former domestic terrorist paved Obama's way to a White House run.

Rev. Wright -- C'mon people!!!  This guy said "God DAMN America!!!"...So what!?!?!?! Really?  Context, FTW!!!  There are plenty of horrible things that the American gov't has been guilty of in the past century for me to not blink an eye when someone says "goddamn them".  McCain is an associate of Gordon Libby, who instucted listeners to his radio show to "aim for the head" when the ATF came to sieze their weapons, because they have bullet-proof vests but not helmets!!!  How is Obama listening to Wright, of whom I'm making the assumption that not EVERY one of his speeches involved the U.S. government, worse than McCain "pallin" around with Libby?

I'm not here to call you an idiot, Lowing, because I don't really think that you are like some other people on the forums...

And yeah, some of these people that Obama is "associated" with are less than desireable, but really, when looking at the broad scheme of American politic, who doesn't have some sketchy associations?  On these bases alone, don't tell me that you have completely made up your mind on Obama...imo, the Resko association is the most damning, but still, it is no worse than most other politician's dirty laundry in the past century.

Harry Truman had ties to the Pendergast Machine in Kansas City.  Kennedy had ties to, well, the Kennedies.  Nixon was, um, a douche bag.  LBJ was caught between his conscience and what both political sides wanted, and chose his conscience, choosing not to run for reelection...I could go on but I'm sure you know what happened with Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton and Bush II....

(Honestly, from what I've learned, Eisenhower was one of the least connected to corrupt political machinery, yet his administration did little to help civil rights movements in the 50's, so my opinions on him are a mixed bag...)



I truly used to like John McCain, when he ran in 2000, but IMO he's sold out too much, lost too much of his "maverick" label, to really mean something on that GOP ticket this year...now, he's just another party-liner hell-bent on the White House.

Just my $.02, you get too much shit on these forums for me to want to try to discount your ideas too much  

Honestly, I agree that Obama is far from perfect, but when compared to McChangemystancetofallinlinewiththeGOPpartyline, I think he's a better choice.

Would you believe that got scolded today for posting an "insult" in one of my posts? lol  Please do not hold back, if you have an opinion about me as well as my posts, I am all ears.


The thing is, with Wright, for example, Obama was with this church for 20 years and says he never heard any of his rantings. Add to it that only when it become nessessary for him to do so, does he quit this church. Any person that has t ocover his tracks as much as Obama does, needs to be scrutenized a lot more than what the media is currently doing.

God Save the Queen wrote:

lowing, McCains ties to ACORN and William Ayers dont bother you?

Do tell

usmarine wrote:

-CARNIFEX-[LOC] wrote:

fake people can't vote!!!

orly?

According to the Franklin County Board of Elections website at least 12 people connected to vote from home are registered to vote in Franklin County. Two have already cast their ballots and several others have requested absentee. For example, meet Daniel Hemel. He's a graduate of Harvard University and a native of Scarsdale, New York. His bio on the vote from home website says he's currently a Marshal Scholar at Oxford University in England. According to the Franklin County Board of Elections Web site, Hemel cast his ballot in Ohio. The other volunteers have similar stories and they all share 2885 Brownlee Avenue as their Ohio address. Today we visited 2885, hoping to speak to Daniel and the other volunteers who voted in Ohio. Volunteers who were around refused to go on camera. We were told by Daniel's colleagues that he is England and has no intention of returning to Ohio. The secretary of state's Web site specifically states that a person's temporary presence in Ohio, such as during a vacation or working in Ohio on a temporary basis, does not make the person eligible to register and to vote in Ohio.

-----
look it up if you please.

God Save the Queen wrote:

lowing wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

lowing, McCains ties to ACORN and William Ayers dont bother you?

Do tell

well, youre gonna have to take my word for it.  I read it in a source that was far from neutral.   McCain has 3 members of his campaign staff that, all together, donated over 89 million dollars towards the organization that is tied with Ayers.  So, if Obama has bad judgement to "pal" around with a terrorist, what does that say about macdog about him "pallin" around with terrorist financiers?

Im not in the business of making things up.  I just wish i could find a link to the article i read it from.


heres that bit about ACORN

McCain's whole campaign is run by lobbyists. True story. Spread your cheeks is thier suggestion.