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2008-10-12 11:06:57
chittydog
less busy
+586|7126|Kubra, Damn it!

deeznutz1245 wrote:

topal63 wrote:

deeznutz1245 wrote:

I am not a drug dealer
I pay my taxes
I receive no state assistance
I do not commit crimes
I don't steal
I don't live an elaborate executive life and fail society by squandering away peoples retirement savings.
I don't hold my hand out when my family is hungry
I don't live outside of my means


There's a few things I don't do. Twist it as you wish.
Dude I don't even dislike you, I am not twisting anything. You're angry at some of the societal mess that is everywhere and is erupting into bigger and bigger messes. Who isn't? I just think your anger is misplaced.
My wife is a nurse and she tells me about how she has a lot of problems with nurses aids at work. You probably know there is a demand for nurses, aids, cna's etc so the hospital my wife works at is no exeption. She makes the schedules for the nurse aids and she held a meeting and asked if anyone wanted overtime because it was available. Several of the aids told her that if they make to much money they will get less from the state and their rent will go up so they opted to not take the overtime!! One of her employees pays less than $100 a month rent for a 3 bedroom house and her boyfriend lives with her unbeknownst to the state. He collects unemployment.

These are things that anger me. This is why I get emotional and pissed off. People like this are shit fucks and I hate them. I don't even think shit fuck is a phrase, but if it is now I'm the one who coined it.
Nobody likes these people. I hope you're intelligent enough to not let yourself be misguided to believe that Democrats like or endorse this situation. The reason Dems support programs like welfare is to help the people who are struggling and are not abusing the system. When I was younger, I worked a crap minimum wage job. A lot of my co-workers were on some sort of financial assistance. A couple were shitheads, but most of them worked multiple jobs and really needed that money to survive.

Contrary to what lowing may believe, most of them (in my personal experience) are decent people who just aren't, uh, "gifted" enough to find a better job. Not everyone has what it takes to be a rocket scientist, and some people don't have what it takes to even work in a call center.

The point here is to understand the other side, not to assume the worst in them because they don't agree with you. Do you suspend financial support so the assholes can't cheat the system, or do you screw everyone because of a few bad apples? It depends on how many bad apples there are. I believe there are more honest people than dickheads shitfucks abusing the system.

Last edited by chittydog (2008-10-12 14:25:23)

2008-10-12 11:10:06
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6784|Connecticut

oug wrote:

deeznutz1245 wrote:

I am Republican because of something my father told me many years ago.

"Son, a honest days pay for a hard days work".

Today, Oct 12th, I turn 30 years old and I look around and love what I have. A gorgeous wife who loves me, a handsome well mannered son, a beautiful house, a good stable job and money in the bank. I absolutely despise the pieces of shit who work the system that I pay for. This spans from the top (AIG, Fanie Mae, Freddie Mac, ....etc executives) to the bottom (Laquanda and her illegitimate children who drive a $40,000 SUV but only pay $92 a month for state housing)

Fuck these people. Fuck them.  They are weak and unworthy of the air I breathe and I know deep down inside it is people like me that enable their survival. I want a government who will let me have my money and chose to do what I wish with it because I am capable of surviving. Unfortunately I havent found such a government.
Very nice, but I see nothing distinctly Republican in all of this. In fact, one could argue that if you wish the above for everyone, you're a socialist.
No, I want less social services thats all. I just wish the portion of my taxes that go towards someone elses rent went towards something else instead. Better park and rec departments perhaps.
Malloy must go
2008-10-12 11:17:04
deeznutz1245
Connecticut: our chimps are stealin yo' faces.
+483|6784|Connecticut

chittydog wrote:

Nobody likes these people. I hope you're intelligent enough to not let yourself be misguided to believe that Democrats like or endorse this situation. The reason Dems support programs like welfare is to help the people who are struggling and are not abusing the system. When I was younger, I worked a crap minimum wage job. A lot of my co-workers were on some sort of financial assistance. A couple were shitheads, but most of them worked multiple jobs and really needed that money to survive.

Contrary to what lowing may believe, most of them (in my personal experience) are decent people who just aren't, uh, "gifted" enough to find a better job. Not everyone has what it takes to be a rocket scientist, and some people don't have what it takes to even work in a call center.

The point here is to understand the other side, not to assume the worst in them because they don't agree with you. Do you suspend financial support so the assholes can't cheat the system, or do you screw everyone because of a few bad apples? It depends on how many bad apples there are. I believe they're are most honest people than dickheads shitfucks abusing the system.
What you said was said well and thought out, and I can appreciate your point. However, Why is it that we somehow can't reform this system? Even though we have a Republican Governer here in CT our state leans mostly to the left. In the past it has been our republican representatives who have called for state aid reform only to have a committee of dems vote any sort of reform down. Why? Im sure every basket has it's bad apples but I don't have to eat them. Eventually you can force one in my mouth but it doesn't mean I have to like it.
Malloy must go
2008-10-12 11:20:34
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6981|Tampa Bay Florida

FEOS wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Ignorant? Maybe. Dumb? Some. Racially motivated? Often - but certainly not always.
Interestingly enough, the same comment can be made about Democrats.

I still find it laughable that those who live outside this country and aren't directly involved in our political process have such strong...yet uninformed...opinions on American internal politics.
Every person no matter what country they're in should try to have strong opinions about politics, no matter what country they're from or what country the politics is in.  The world isn't the same place it was 100 years ago.

Its up to them to be informed though.  And it goes both ways, too.  Just like these retarded stories.
2008-10-12 12:14:29
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

oug wrote:

FEOS wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Ignorant? Maybe. Dumb? Some. Racially motivated? Often - but certainly not always.
Interestingly enough, the same comment can be made about Democrats.

I still find it laughable that those who live outside this country and aren't directly involved in our political process have such strong...yet uninformed...opinions on American internal politics.
I think you wouldn't have gone to the trouble of posting if the above was directed at the Democrats, although I agree with your comment.
And you would be wrong.

oug wrote:

Also, I'm willing to bet that the D&ST non-Americans are more informed about your internal and external political affairs than the vast majority of American voters.
A fairly unbiased assessment, since you fall into the group you think is more informed. However, I do agree with you there. It seems that many of the D&ST folks are more informed on many things than the average American, Brit, Greek, <insert country here>. It's a double-edged sword, though, as many think that because they read something on the internet or in a text book, they are now a lay expert in that subject.

I've said it before, and I have yet to be proven wrong: Experience with a subject counts for far more than reading about a subject. Experience allows you to develop your own viewpoint, where reading (textbooks, internet, whatever) about a subject is through the lens of the author's bias (regardless of what it is).

Hence, if you don't live here and experience it day to day, your opinion is less informed than that of someone who does.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-10-13 03:43:11
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX
I'm of a left leaning thinking and I find the above as bad as those stupid Republican stories
That was the point, taking extreme positions either side of an argument makes everyone look like an arse.
Just as offensive to Democrats as your story is to Republicans. And no person is going to not stop at a crash scene and help a baby in the back seat. Not even a Republican.
You'd think, but wait.
Fuck these people. Fuck them.  They are weak and unworthy of the air I breathe and I know deep down inside it is people like me that enable their survival. I want a government who will let me have my money and chose to do what I wish with it because I am capable of surviving.
"Son, a honest days pay for a hard days work".
In my experience this means someone else is riding you, and probably making more than you out of you.
These are things that anger me. This is why I get emotional and pissed off. People like this are shit fucks and I hate them. I don't even think shit fuck is a phrase, but if it is now I'm the one who coined it.
Social security fraud is a crime, being on the bottom rung isn't.
right in the middle is the correct size
Even USMarine gets it.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-10-13 03:53:15)

Fuck Israel
2008-10-13 03:50:58
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX
I've said it before, and I have yet to be proven wrong: Experience with a subject counts for far more than reading about a subject. Experience allows you to develop your own viewpoint, where reading (textbooks, internet, whatever) about a subject is through the lens of the author's bias (regardless of what it is).
'Experience' just means looking at what you can see in your immediate surroundings, very unlikely to be the full picture, and its through the lens of your own prejudices.
If you read widely enough the lenses cancel out.
A balanced education, picking up information from multiple sources and looking at information objectively win every time over experience.

Teach a man to hammer nails and let him hammer nails his whole life what does he have? Experience of hammering nails.
Give him a screw and a screwdriver and hes buggered.

OTOH Give an average man a pile of books and he could probably make a reasonable stab at a nuclear bomb.

Look at Rumsfeld, so much 'experience', his whole life plotting a US led remodelling of the ME and he made a total shit fuck of it. (Thx Deeznutz)
Fuck Israel
2008-10-13 03:57:32
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

Dilbert_X wrote:

I've said it before, and I have yet to be proven wrong: Experience with a subject counts for far more than reading about a subject. Experience allows you to develop your own viewpoint, where reading (textbooks, internet, whatever) about a subject is through the lens of the author's bias (regardless of what it is).
'Experience' just means looking at what you can see in your immediate surroundings, very unlikely to be the full picture, and its through the lens of your own prejudices.
If you read widely enough the lenses cancel out.
A balanced education, picking up information from multiple sources and looking at information objectively win every time over experience.

Teach a man to hammer nails and let him hammer nails his whole life what does he have? Experience of hammering nails.
Give him a screw and a screwdriver and hes buggered.

OTOH Give an average man a pile of books and he could probably make a reasonable stab at a nuclear bomb.

Look at Rumsfeld, so much 'experience', his whole life plotting a US led remodelling of the ME and he made a total shit fuck of it. (Thx Deeznutz)
Way to take a concept and oversimplify it by using an example completely out of the context of the discussion.

A better analogy (to use your hammering guy):

You've got a guy who's hammered all his life. Then some fuckstick who's read about hammering but hasn't actually done any hammering comes along and tells him he's hammering all wrong and should hammer differently.

I never implied a balanced education wasn't important. What I stated (and you overlooked) was that, for a given subject, actual experience with the subject at hand is more useful than simply reading about said subject.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-10-13 04:01:06
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6581|Éire

FEOS wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Ignorant? Maybe. Dumb? Some. Racially motivated? Often - but certainly not always.
Interestingly enough, the same comment can be made about Democrats.

I still find it laughable that those who live outside this country and aren't directly involved in our political process have such strong...yet uninformed...opinions on American internal politics.
What about how so many American posters have such clear opinions on Europe supposedly being full of cheese-eating, surrender monkeys who happily roll over on their pile of welfare cheques and allow Mohammed to slowly rape them from behind!

The ignorance door swings both ways my friend!
2008-10-13 04:13:37
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

Braddock wrote:

FEOS wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Ignorant? Maybe. Dumb? Some. Racially motivated? Often - but certainly not always.
Interestingly enough, the same comment can be made about Democrats.

I still find it laughable that those who live outside this country and aren't directly involved in our political process have such strong...yet uninformed...opinions on American internal politics.
What about how so many American posters have such clear opinions on Europe supposedly being full of cheese-eating, surrender monkeys who happily roll over on their pile of welfare cheques and allow Mohammed to slowly rape them from behind!

The ignorance door swings both ways my friend!
But that's not ignorance...it's truth.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-10-13 04:33:45
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6581|Éire

FEOS wrote:

Braddock wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Interestingly enough, the same comment can be made about Democrats.

I still find it laughable that those who live outside this country and aren't directly involved in our political process have such strong...yet uninformed...opinions on American internal politics.
What about how so many American posters have such clear opinions on Europe supposedly being full of cheese-eating, surrender monkeys who happily roll over on their pile of welfare cheques and allow Mohammed to slowly rape them from behind!

The ignorance door swings both ways my friend!
But that's not ignorance...it's truth.
Mind the door doesn't hit you on the way out!
2008-10-13 05:25:36
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6397|eXtreme to the maX
You've got a guy who's hammered all his life.
But who hasn't necessarily been doing it right to start with, or kept up with developments in either hammering or nails.
Maybe a nailgun would be quicker and less tiring, zinc passivation, now there's an idea.
But no, he has 'experience' and he knows better.
Then some fuckstick who's read about hammering but hasn't actually done any hammering comes along and tells him he's hammering all wrong and should hammer differently.
Easy Tiger, thats my whole career you're talking about, but hey, thats why I get the big bucks
(My current job is trying to help bring an engineering team into the 1990s, they all have 30 years 'experience'. Geez its tedious, and thankless. 'Com-pu-tors? My propelling pencil is still going mate)
actual experience with the subject at hand is more useful than simply reading about said subject
Sometimes yes, often it just blinds people to their own ignorance.

Funny that Americans think they can impose their views and systems on other cultures and nations when they have very limited knowledge and certainly no experience of them.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-10-13 05:39:09)

Fuck Israel
2008-10-13 05:29:02
PureFodder
Member
+225|6576

FEOS wrote:

I've said it before, and I have yet to be proven wrong: Experience with a subject counts for far more than reading about a subject. Experience allows you to develop your own viewpoint, where reading (textbooks, internet, whatever) about a subject is through the lens of the author's bias (regardless of what it is).

Hence, if you don't live here and experience it day to day, your opinion is less informed than that of someone who does.
Personal experience can be vastly misleading. The US has 300,000,000 people in it. Personal experiance is only likely to tell you about a tiny fraction of what's going on in a largely geographically and socio-economically restricted way. Living in a political system means you are likely to have absorbed plenty of incorrect crap being spouted from other people (family/friends etc.) and the news and internalized it. You absorb plenty of bias whilst getting personal experience just by listening to what the people around you say.
2008-10-13 08:09:16
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6942|USA

Braddock wrote:

FEOS wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Ignorant? Maybe. Dumb? Some. Racially motivated? Often - but certainly not always.
Interestingly enough, the same comment can be made about Democrats.

I still find it laughable that those who live outside this country and aren't directly involved in our political process have such strong...yet uninformed...opinions on American internal politics.
What about how so many American posters have such clear opinions on Europe supposedly being full of cheese-eating, surrender monkeys who happily roll over on their pile of welfare cheques and allow Mohammed to slowly rape them from behind!

The ignorance door swings both ways my friend!
How about it, then maybe you shouldn't have a history of surrender, eating cheese, or rolling over on your socialist welfare, while allowing Islam to gain a foothold on your countries.
2008-10-13 08:18:53
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

You people are completely missing the experience point. I can't be arsed to explain it to you in terms you can understand.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-10-13 08:19:13
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6581|Éire

lowing wrote:

Braddock wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Interestingly enough, the same comment can be made about Democrats.

I still find it laughable that those who live outside this country and aren't directly involved in our political process have such strong...yet uninformed...opinions on American internal politics.
What about how so many American posters have such clear opinions on Europe supposedly being full of cheese-eating, surrender monkeys who happily roll over on their pile of welfare cheques and allow Mohammed to slowly rape them from behind!

The ignorance door swings both ways my friend!
How about it, then maybe you shouldn't have a history of surrender, eating cheese, or rolling over on your socialist welfare, while allowing Islam to gain a foothold on your countries.
Who has a history of surrender?

The Romans had a pretty nice empire once upon a time.
The UK won WW1 and WW2 and took over half the planet during their imperial days.
Russia won won WW2 and the recent war in Ossetia and took over half of Europe during the days of the USSR.
Ireland won the first leg of the war of Independence with Britain (second leg currently in extra time and may go to penalties!).
France, despite a recent dip in form, once had a vast empire under great leaders like Napolean.
...doesn't really add up to a culture of surrender lowing.

Eating cheese?

Guilty as charged... and proud of it. Nothing like a nice piece of Brie.

Rolling over on welfare cheques?

One or two of us maybe... better than having to step over tons of homeless people in the streets.

Allowing Islam to gain a giant foothold in your countries?

Did someone change the definition of "giant" without telling me? They are an insignificant minority my good friend, you may scare easily on your side of the water but we Europeans are made of sterner stuff!

Last edited by Braddock (2008-10-13 08:19:44)

2008-10-13 08:27:48
motherdear
Member
+25|6942|Denmark/Minnesota (depends)

chittydog wrote:

Contrary to what lowing may believe, most of them (in my personal experience) are decent people who just aren't, uh, "gifted" enough to find a better job. Not everyone has what it takes to be a rocket scientist, and some people don't have what it takes to even work in a call center.
this might sound a big extreme, but maybe it's about time we just have survival of the fittest into play. they may try to work hard but if they can't even work at a call center maybe it's not worth having them in the common gene pool.

it sounds extreme but it has worked for the species for millions of years, it may be inhumane but that is only if we look at current norms, and norms are always able to be changed. Hitler had somethings right (even though only limited things) like not every handicapped should be brought into the world for the sake of a better specie.

I hate thinking like this sometimes, but maybe it would be the best.

and plz don't flame for this since it's not meant to be evil it's only meant to put it into perspective.

and btw i am in no way a nazi i just don't believe everyone is equal (until proved otherwise)

Last edited by motherdear (2008-10-13 08:28:40)

2008-10-13 08:32:23
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6810|Πάϊ

FEOS wrote:

oug wrote:

Also, I'm willing to bet that the D&ST non-Americans are more informed about your internal and external political affairs than the vast majority of American voters.
A fairly unbiased assessment, since you fall into the group you think is more informed. However, I do agree with you there. It seems that many of the D&ST folks are more informed on many things than the average American, Brit, Greek, <insert country here>. It's a double-edged sword, though, as many think that because they read something on the internet or in a text book, they are now a lay expert in that subject.

I've said it before, and I have yet to be proven wrong: Experience with a subject counts for far more than reading about a subject. Experience allows you to develop your own viewpoint, where reading (textbooks, internet, whatever) about a subject is through the lens of the author's bias (regardless of what it is).

Hence, if you don't live here and experience it day to day, your opinion is less informed than that of someone who does.
I agree with you generally on this - first-hand experience cannot be substituted by any textbook. But what kind of experience are we talking about when it comes to politics?

We're all part of the political system. So in that sense we do experience every political decision first-hand. You don't have to be a politician to express a valid opinion Feos. As for bias, I doubt you can bypass no matter where you live. In fact, a little distance might even serve to clarify things some times.

Now specifically when it comes to US politics, like it or not, the decisions made by your president affect me more than the policy of my own government. On the other hand, it's true that I couldn't speak about Vietnamese politics, because they don't affect me in the least - and thus I never cared about them.
ƒ³
2008-10-13 08:45:53
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6702|'Murka

oug wrote:

I agree with you generally on this - first-hand experience cannot be substituted by any textbook. But what kind of experience are we talking about when it comes to politics?

We're all part of the political system. So in that sense we do experience every political decision first-hand. You don't have to be a politician to express a valid opinion Feos. As for bias, I doubt you can bypass no matter where you live. In fact, a little distance might even serve to clarify things some times.

Now specifically when it comes to US politics, like it or not, the decisions made by your president affect me more than the policy of my own government. On the other hand, it's true that I couldn't speak about Vietnamese politics, because they don't affect me in the least - and thus I never cared about them.
We're not all part of the US political system, which is different in many ways than other democratic systems. I agree that objective, outside perspectives help re-cage people from time to time, but it would be a stretch to refer to BF2S euro views of the US (in any regard) as objective.

I fully realize that US foreign policy impacts other countries...that is the intent of foreign policy. I don't see how the US President's decisions affect a Greek more than the Greek president, though. Sounds like you may need to revamp your country's political system if it's that weak.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-10-13 09:01:44
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6810|Πάϊ

FEOS wrote:

oug wrote:

I agree with you generally on this - first-hand experience cannot be substituted by any textbook. But what kind of experience are we talking about when it comes to politics?

We're all part of the political system. So in that sense we do experience every political decision first-hand. You don't have to be a politician to express a valid opinion Feos. As for bias, I doubt you can bypass no matter where you live. In fact, a little distance might even serve to clarify things some times.

Now specifically when it comes to US politics, like it or not, the decisions made by your president affect me more than the policy of my own government. On the other hand, it's true that I couldn't speak about Vietnamese politics, because they don't affect me in the least - and thus I never cared about them.
We're not all part of the US political system, which is different in many ways than other democratic systems. I agree that objective, outside perspectives help re-cage people from time to time, but it would be a stretch to refer to BF2S euro views of the US (in any regard) as objective.

I fully realize that US foreign policy impacts other countries...that is the intent of foreign policy. I don't see how the US President's decisions affect a Greek more than the Greek president, though. Sounds like you may need to revamp your country's political system if it's that weak.
Maybe they're not objective, after all who can claim that? But they are valid. They're not out of touch. Surely there's a division between Europeans and Americans. A different mentality if you like. That's not to say that anyone's opinion is not to be taken seriously though.

As for my country, well... you only need to read up on the role played by the various great powers during different times in the entire Balkan region.

It's not really difficult for countries like Britain, Russia or the US to steer the occasional government of any small nation.
ƒ³
2008-10-13 09:17:14
PureFodder
Member
+225|6576

FEOS wrote:

You people are completely missing the experience point. I can't be arsed to explain it to you in terms you can understand.
No, please come down from your high horse and explain it to us mere mortals oh great one!
2008-10-13 10:30:53
13rin
Member
+977|6770
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican … Voter_base

And we're got more degrees.
Edit: ^- Which makes us better.

Last edited by DBBrinson1 (2008-10-13 10:34:37)

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2008-10-13 10:41:28
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6738|Chicago, IL
For starters, the definition of "republican" is not very clear...

Are we referring to fiscal conservatives?  Social Conservatives?  The military? Far right Baptist maniacs? The Ku Klux Klan?  Many people seem to group all of these people into the same party, label them as "conservatives" and then deride us all. 

The republican party is as diverse as the country it represents, any generalization you make about it's voter base is a mistake.
2008-10-13 10:43:59
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|5993|College Park, MD

DBBrinson1 wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_US#Voter_base

And we're got more degrees.
Edit: ^- Which makes us better.
holy fuck there are that many independents?
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
2008-10-13 10:49:35
Parker
isteal
+1,452|6685|The Gem Saloon

FEOS wrote:

You people are completely missing the experience point. I can't be arsed to explain it to you in terms you can understand.
i completely understand where you are coming from regarding experience.

doing something>reading about it...any day.


dont get me wrong, i will still learn from books every day of my life.....but i can read about hammering steel all day long. it doesnt mean im gonna get any better at it. no, not until i go out and try what i just read about.....you know how many different ways i read to make damascus steel before i finally found the way that worked for me? the key word there is "found". yes, the knowledge i gained from reading helped, but at the end, it was my mistakes that taught me how to do it....not text.

same goes with firearms. i have learned all sorts of cyclic rates, calibers and things like stances, etc.
and again, i learned some things, but reading doesnt make you proficient with firearms. putting lead on target as often as you are able is how you do that.


reading has value, but i learn from my mistakes....which gives me experience.

Last edited by Parker (2008-10-13 10:50:23)

 

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