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2008-09-30 19:15:45
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6752|Chicago, IL

Spearhead wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

djphetal wrote:

You've got to be the first person I've ever heard defend the Kent State Shootings. That's really, really pathetic and despicable.
all were at fault
What the fuck.  A line of gunmen opened fire on people who were on their way to class.

My dad was at Kent when it happened.  Ya, some students were acting crazy.  Doesnt give the government the right to open fire onto a crowd of people in the same town. 

They were afraid of a student uprising so they murdered some people.  Fucking unbelievable that any American could excuse that.  And fuck anyone who tries to defend the National Guard for what it did on that day. 

Thank god there were some who refused to fire because it was an illegal order.  At least some of them were real Americans.
You're right, it does not give them the right to fire, or we are no better than the Chinese were at Tienanmen Square , the issue here is whether those responsible for initiating the violence should be held responsible as well.

There have been many cases in the history of our nation where martial law has been necessary to keep the peace, and there will continue to be similar situations in the future when natural disasters occur and protests get out of hand.  Only if (and that's a big IF) the American people learn to control themselves and act responsibly in times of crisis will the need for military deployment on our own soil no longer be needed.
2008-09-30 19:16:43
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6824|Montucky

God Save the Queen wrote:

Ill go back in the Army just to take your guns.
I'll join ya.. except I'll go back into the Marines..
2008-09-30 19:27:56
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6649|tropical regions of london
I seriously think all these wannabe survivalists have steered me strong into considering a shot at being an ATF agent. We need you guys as far away from fire arms as possible.

Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-09-30 20:00:30)

2008-09-30 19:59:56
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6995|Tampa Bay Florida

S.Lythberg wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:


all were at fault
What the fuck.  A line of gunmen opened fire on people who were on their way to class.

My dad was at Kent when it happened.  Ya, some students were acting crazy.  Doesnt give the government the right to open fire onto a crowd of people in the same town. 

They were afraid of a student uprising so they murdered some people.  Fucking unbelievable that any American could excuse that.  And fuck anyone who tries to defend the National Guard for what it did on that day. 

Thank god there were some who refused to fire because it was an illegal order.  At least some of them were real Americans.
You're right, it does not give them the right to fire, or we are no better than the Chinese were at Tienanmen Square , the issue here is whether those responsible for initiating the violence should be held responsible as well.

There have been many cases in the history of our nation where martial law has been necessary to keep the peace, and there will continue to be similar situations in the future when natural disasters occur and protests get out of hand.  Only if (and that's a big IF) the American people learn to control themselves and act responsibly in times of crisis will the need for military deployment on our own soil no longer be needed.
Except you're either ignoring or confusing your facts.

The 4 people killed at Kent were not armed.  They were in a crowd walking on their way to class.  The guardsmen were up on a hill.  I've been to Kent and been at the exact spot where all of it took place.  The students killed and wounded (some paralyzed for life I think) were posing absolutely no threat to the guardsmen.  They were in a parking lot ffs.  On their way to class.

If some idiot with a gun is staging an uprising at a university, fine, go kill him.  Don't kill other students at the university and call it keeping the peace.  Its murder.
2008-09-30 20:09:20
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|7020|US

God Save the Queen wrote:

I seriously think all these wannabe survivalists have steered me strong into considering a shot at being an ATF agent. We need you guys as far away from fire arms as possible.
Just what we need!  More people in law enforcement enforcing their own views.
2008-09-30 20:09:59
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6007|College Park, MD

RAIMIUS wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

I seriously think all these wannabe survivalists have steered me strong into considering a shot at being an ATF agent. We need you guys as far away from fire arms as possible.
Just what we need!  More people in law enforcement enforcing their own views.
Do you trust half the people on these forums with high-power fire arms?
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
2008-09-30 20:11:31
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6649|tropical regions of london

RAIMIUS wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

I seriously think all these wannabe survivalists have steered me strong into considering a shot at being an ATF agent. We need you guys as far away from fire arms as possible.
Just what we need!  More people in law enforcement enforcing their own views.
lol.  ok dude.

Im taking yours 2nd.

Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-09-30 20:12:27)

2008-09-30 20:27:29
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6641|Oregon

God Save the Queen wrote:

I seriously think all these wannabe survivalists have steered me strong into considering a shot at being an ATF agent. We need you guys as far away from fire arms as possible.
Who is it you're calling a wannabe survivalist?
2008-09-30 20:30:05
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6649|tropical regions of london
joe
2008-09-30 23:25:12
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6834|Global Command

FEOS wrote:

ATG wrote:

And yet another legacy of the George W. Bush era is the death of the The Posse Comitatus Act.


I apologize to my fellow Americans and the world for ever supporting this piece of shit.


In time when General Electric makes military weapons AND controls major media outlets should we be surprised this isn't on mainstream television?
Please show where Posse Comitatus has been repealed. Then I'll let the lawyers know tomorrow, because it's one of the primary pieces of legislation they use when determining the legality of anything.
A certain church in Texas comes to mind.

https://www.cesnur.org/img/waco_fire.jpg


ya know, tanks and shit. Explosions. Machine gun fire.

https://www.carolmoore.net/waco/4-19-93-2.jpg
2008-10-01 02:23:51
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

ATG wrote:

FEOS wrote:

ATG wrote:

And yet another legacy of the George W. Bush era is the death of the The Posse Comitatus Act.


I apologize to my fellow Americans and the world for ever supporting this piece of shit.


In time when General Electric makes military weapons AND controls major media outlets should we be surprised this isn't on mainstream television?
Please show where Posse Comitatus has been repealed. Then I'll let the lawyers know tomorrow, because it's one of the primary pieces of legislation they use when determining the legality of anything.
A certain church in Texas comes to mind.

http://www.cesnur.org/img/waco_fire.jpg


ya know, tanks and shit. Explosions. Machine gun fire.

http://www.carolmoore.net/waco/4-19-93-2.jpg
OK. And where was posse comitatus repealed? Still haven't answered the question.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-10-01 02:24:09
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6926|London, England

FEOS wrote:

I'm willing to bet you won't find a soldier who would turn his gun on the citizenry.
Yeah right, the USA is one of the most politically divided countries on this planet, I think there are plenty of people in your Military that wouldn't hesitate to shoot at some "hippies" or some "crazy religious neo-cons" (the latter would be more rare but just trying to stay balanced). Other countries soldiers do it all the time, don't count on the US Military being so special. Even our British Army fired within British territory (Northern Ireland) on protestors (who probably had British passports) and killed a few people.

Ok not plenty.

But it only takes a few.

And especially because alot of US Civilians have firearms, things can quickly, ridiculously quickly get totally out of hand.

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-10-01 02:38:55)

2008-10-01 02:39:11
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

FEOS wrote:

I'm willing to bet you won't find a soldier who would turn his gun on the citizenry.
Yeah right, the USA is one of the most politically divided countries on this planet, I think there are plenty of people in your Military that wouldn't hesitate to shoot at some "hippies" or some "crazy religious neo-cons" (the latter would be more rare but just trying to stay balanced). Other countries soldiers do it all the time, don't count on the US Military being so special. Even our British Army fired within British territory (Northern Ireland) on protestors (who probably had British passports) and killed a few people.
I'll go ahead and stick with my years of first-hand experience over your internet trivia experience on this one.

People may say shit like that, but they aren't at all serious. Otherwise, we wouldn't be able to work together. And your implication that there are a lot of "crazy religious neo-cons" in the US military is frankly disgusting and offensive. You know not of which you speak.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-10-01 02:45:46
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6926|London, England
No, I was saying that there's a chance that there's someone in the Military that would shoot a hippie or a crazy religious neo-con protestor, because of political views that would make it easier

I think it would be naive to think that there's nobody in the US Military that would do that.

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-10-01 02:46:50)

2008-10-01 02:47:38
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

No, I was saying that there's a chance that there's someone in the Military that would shoot a hippie or a crazy religious neo-con protestor, because of political views that would make it easier
Doesn't sound like it.

you wrote:

I think there are plenty of people in your Military that wouldn't hesitate to shoot at some "hippies" or some "crazy religious neo-cons" (the latter would be more rare but just trying to stay balanced).
The implication there is fairly unambiguous.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-10-01 02:56:30
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6926|London, England
Yeah, it would be more rare that they would start shooting at religious neo-cons, that doesn't make them religious neo-cons themselves. Everyone knows the Military leans abit right anyway. Just about everywhere in the world
2008-10-01 03:00:48
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Yeah, it would be more rare that they would start shooting at religious neo-cons, that doesn't make them religious neo-cons themselves. Everyone knows the Military leans abit right anyway. Just about everywhere in the world
Leaning right and aligning oneself with religious neocons are two completely different things.

And shooting at hippies would be no more or less rare than shooting at religious neocons.

Last edited by FEOS (2008-10-01 03:01:23)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-10-01 07:10:45
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6834|Global Command

FEOS wrote:

ATG wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Please show where Posse Comitatus has been repealed. Then I'll let the lawyers know tomorrow, because it's one of the primary pieces of legislation they use when determining the legality of anything.
A certain church in Texas comes to mind.

http://www.cesnur.org/img/waco_fire.jpg


ya know, tanks and shit. Explosions. Machine gun fire.

http://www.carolmoore.net/waco/4-19-93-2.jpg
OK. And where was posse comitatus repealed? Still haven't answered the question.
In Waco Texas, when they used tanks to crush babies and satchel charges to kill women and machine guns to mow down everybody trying to flee the building they had torched.

Do you need a goddamned piece of paper saying shits been repealed when the tanks are pumping your house full of flamable tear gas?


I guess so.
2008-10-01 07:24:52
Lotta_Drool
Spit
+350|6488|Ireland

RAIMIUS wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

I seriously think all these wannabe survivalists have steered me strong into considering a shot at being an ATF agent. We need you guys as far away from fire arms as possible.
Just what we need!  More people in law enforcement enforcing their own views.
Just aim for his head, he will be the lazy Mexican that goes in last to hide behind the real men.
2008-10-01 07:31:24
PureFodder
Member
+225|6591

FEOS wrote:

I'm willing to bet you won't find a soldier who would turn his gun on the citizenry.
Even returning Iraq/Afghanistan vets who've seen their friends killed by Muslim extremists taking it out on US Muslims?

I'm not saying that many may do that, but there's certainly some risk of that.
2008-10-01 11:53:36
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6641|Oregon

FEOS wrote:

And your implication that there are a lot of "crazy religious neo-cons" in the US military is frankly disgusting and offensive.
Really? Because I thought it was fairly common knowledge.

I'll let you know that 4 of the 4 people I know who have joined the military have been religious neo-cons. "Crazy" was an adjective Mek used to give voice to his statement, so if that's what offended you, then I apologize on behalf of the theoretical 3rd person which Mek referenced.

Regardless, that isn't even what Mek was implicating in the first place.
2008-10-01 12:36:29
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6847|Texas - Bigger than France

djphetal wrote:

This is pretty scary to me. It seems as though the Bush administration used Katrina to get a bill through congress without being questioned on a number of points that put America on par - militarily - with most modern fascist dictatorships.

The ambiguous language in the recent bill, as well as a written statement by Bush in which he practically announces that he can and will bypass certain restrictions at his discretion, are doorways to use the United States Military as a governmental police force.

I could talk about it for days... but I'd like to hear what you all think.

Discuss.
I think you are worried about nothing.  The US Military has always had this kind of power.

Plus I think you're forgetting the army isn't made up of mindless stormtroopers.

You know four people in the military.  So are you telling me they would willing shoot you if ordered?  I highly doubt it.

I live in a Navy town.  Most of the military families I've hung out have said they are voting for that neo-con Obama.  So I think our experiences vary quite a bit on this topic.
2008-10-01 12:53:57
Bertster7
Confused Pothead
+1,101|6887|SE London

FEOS wrote:

ATG wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Please show where Posse Comitatus has been repealed. Then I'll let the lawyers know tomorrow, because it's one of the primary pieces of legislation they use when determining the legality of anything.
A certain church in Texas comes to mind.

http://www.cesnur.org/img/waco_fire.jpg


ya know, tanks and shit. Explosions. Machine gun fire.

http://www.carolmoore.net/waco/4-19-93-2.jpg
OK. And where was posse comitatus repealed? Still haven't answered the question.
It hasn't been. It has been changed though - but quite a while ago.

The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2006 made big changes with wording like:

The President may employ the armed forces to restore public order in any State of the United States the President determines hinders the execution of laws or deprives people of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
Sounds like use of the military as law enforcement (use of the military to prevent the hinderance of execution of laws, is law enforcement) to me, at Presidential disretion of course.

Although recently Bush repealed these changes (though he did add a signing statement, which makes it sounds like it isn't repealed at all).
2008-10-01 14:44:27
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6641|Oregon

Pug wrote:

You know four people in the military.  So are you telling me they would willing shoot you if ordered?  I highly doubt it.
Didn't say that. I said I knew four religious Neo-cons in the army. You applied FEOS's flawed perception of Mek's post to my post.
2008-10-01 15:36:22
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7067

i am so scared.






not rly

 

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