djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6641|Oregon
http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?cont … ;aid=10366

the article wrote:

"Beginning Oct. 1 for 12 months, the [1st Brigade Combat Team of the 3rd Infantry Division] will be under the day-to-day control of U.S. Army North" -- "the first time an active unit has been given a dedicated assignment to NorthCom, a joint command established in 2002 to provide command and control for federal homeland defense efforts and coordinate defense support of civil authorities."

...

For more than 100 years -- since the end of the Civil War -- deployment of the U.S. military inside the U.S. has been prohibited under The Posse Comitatus Act (the only exceptions being that the National Guard and Coast Guard are exempted, and use of the military on an emergency ad hoc basis is permitted, such as what happened after Hurricane Katrina). Though there have been some erosions of this prohibition over the last several decades (most perniciously to allow the use of the military to work with law enforcement agencies in the "War on Drugs"), the bright line ban on using the U.S. military as a standing law enforcement force inside the U.S. has been more or less honored -- until now. And as the Army Times notes, once this particular brigade completes its one-year assignment, "expectations are that another, as yet unnamed, active-duty brigade will take over and that the mission will be a permanent one."
I suggest you read the whole article.

This is pretty scary to me. It seems as though the Bush administration used Katrina to get a bill through congress without being questioned on a number of points that put America on par - militarily - with most modern fascist dictatorships.

The ambiguous language in the recent bill, as well as a written statement by Bush in which he practically announces that he can and will bypass certain restrictions at his discretion, are doorways to use the United States Military as a governmental police force.

I could talk about it for days... but I'd like to hear what you all think.

Discuss.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

That is an untrue statement. Posse Comitatus does not prevent deployment of active duty military within the United States. It prevents the use of active duty military as law enforcement.

DSCA means just that. Defense manpower to support Civil Authorities. It happens all the time. ISR assets used to keep track of flood waters, hurricane damage, etc in order to focus relief efforts. The situations described in the article are catastrophic in nature...ie, far beyond what civil authorities can respond to without other help.

BL: If it were unconstitutional, then the SCOTUS would've killed it.

The sky is not falling.

The Army is not taking over your town.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6752|Chicago, IL

FEOS wrote:

The sky is not falling.
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6641|Oregon

FEOS wrote:

The sky is not falling.

The Army is not taking over your town.
I'm not saying we're GOING to become a military state, but the language in the bills, as well as language in other recent bills detailing "martial law" combine to produce a situation where Bush could, if a "condition" arose, use the military in practically any way he saw fit.

We're not far from martial law. One "instance" could lead to a "condition," and that, as far as I understand, is, thanks to the documents mentioned in the article I posted, justification to use the military "to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy."

That allows for quite a bit of wiggle.


Again, I'm worried only by the path down which this takes us. I don't expect Bush to pull a fast one on everybody in the last few months of his presidency and declare martial law... but if he, or another elected official eventually DOES declare martial law, it seems as though they would have to tools to impose a military dictatorship of this country.

That, for me, is terrifying enough.
jsnipy
...
+3,277|6828|...

What you should be worried about, if at all, is that some looming event is about to occur
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6990|United States of America
Read the actual armytimes article and then you get the bacon (the report) without the fat (the views of the person who wrote it on the globalization site). It ought to ease your worries, at least.
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6641|Oregon

jsnipy wrote:

What you should be worried about, if at all, is that some looming event is about to occur
I thought about that. Could these recent changes be anticipatory? I think not, for the same reason the article points out... They would be far more clandestine if they were up to something.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

djphetal wrote:

We're not far from martial law.
Yes we are.

djphetal wrote:

One "instance" could lead to a "condition," and that, as far as I understand, is, thanks to the documents mentioned in the article I posted, justification to use the military "to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy."

That allows for quite a bit of wiggle.


Again, I'm worried only by the path down which this takes us. I don't expect Bush to pull a fast one on everybody in the last few months of his presidency and declare martial law... but if he, or another elected official eventually DOES declare martial law, it seems as though they would have to tools to impose a military dictatorship of this country.

That, for me, is terrifying enough.
Every one of that BCT's soldiers took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Not a law. Not a President. The Constitution. I'm willing to bet you won't find a soldier who would turn his gun on the citizenry.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6641|Oregon

DesertFox- wrote:

Read the actual armytimes article and then you get the bacon (the report) without the fat (the views of the person who wrote it on the globalization site). It ought to ease your worries, at least.
I did read it. While it does make more sense in context, it's really the wording on the bills that I can't get over. It's just too filled with loopholes... too ambiguous to not cause me some sort of fear.

I'm not pretending to be unbiased either... if Bush is behind something, you bet I'll question it.

And I just want to reiterate that I'm not immediately worried, but... I'm worried for the (near) future.

I'd also like to say that I didn't think the thread's title through. It shouldn't terrify you... but you should pay attention.
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6641|Oregon

FEOS wrote:

I'm willing to bet you won't find a soldier who would turn his gun on the citizenry.
The National Guard did it, why not the US Army?

Last edited by djphetal (2008-09-30 17:27:25)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

djphetal wrote:

FEOS wrote:

I'm willing to bet you won't find a soldier who would turn his gun on the citizenry.
The National Guard did it, why not the US Army?
Much has changed since then. You're not going to believe what you don't want to believe.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6752|Chicago, IL

djphetal wrote:

FEOS wrote:

I'm willing to bet you won't find a soldier who would turn his gun on the citizenry.
The National Guard did it, why not the US Army?
Trouble erupted in town at around midnight when people left a bar and began throwing beer bottles at cars and breaking downtown store fronts. In the process they broke a bank window which set off an alarm. The news spread quickly and it resulted in several bars closing early to avoid trouble. Before long more people had joined the vandalism and looting, while others remained bystanders.

By the time police arrived, a crowd of about 100 had already gathered. Some people from the crowd had already lit a small bonfire in the street. The crowd appeared to be a mix of bikers, students, and out-of town youths who regularly came to Kent's bars. A few members of the crowd began to throw beer bottles at the police, and then started yelling obscenities at them. The disturbance lasted for about an hour before the police restored order.
More than a thousand protesters surrounded the building and cheered the building's burning. While attempting to extinguish the fire, several Kent firemen and police officers were hit with rocks and other objects by those standing near the fire. More than one fire engine company had to be called in because protesters carried the fire hose into the Commons and slashed it.
poor innocent kids...

police in this country are reactive, they don't open fire without reason.
djphetal
Go Ducks.
+346|6641|Oregon

S.Lythberg wrote:

poor innocent kids...
You've got to be the first person I've ever heard defend the Kent State Shootings. That's really, really pathetic and despicable.
mikkel
Member
+383|6907

S.Lythberg wrote:

djphetal wrote:

FEOS wrote:

I'm willing to bet you won't find a soldier who would turn his gun on the citizenry.
The National Guard did it, why not the US Army?
Trouble erupted in town at around midnight when people left a bar and began throwing beer bottles at cars and breaking downtown store fronts. In the process they broke a bank window which set off an alarm. The news spread quickly and it resulted in several bars closing early to avoid trouble. Before long more people had joined the vandalism and looting, while others remained bystanders.

By the time police arrived, a crowd of about 100 had already gathered. Some people from the crowd had already lit a small bonfire in the street. The crowd appeared to be a mix of bikers, students, and out-of town youths who regularly came to Kent's bars. A few members of the crowd began to throw beer bottles at the police, and then started yelling obscenities at them. The disturbance lasted for about an hour before the police restored order.
More than a thousand protesters surrounded the building and cheered the building's burning. While attempting to extinguish the fire, several Kent firemen and police officers were hit with rocks and other objects by those standing near the fire. More than one fire engine company had to be called in because protesters carried the fire hose into the Commons and slashed it.
poor innocent kids...

police in this country are reactive, they don't open fire without reason.
If you're going to use it against him, don't be selective about your quotation. The guardsmen shot at people who were of no immediate threat, hitting people who were either observing or participating peacefully, or not connected to the protest at all.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6834|Global Command
BA AAAAA AAAAA AAA

Sheep not scaird.
S.Lythberg
Mastermind
+429|6752|Chicago, IL

djphetal wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

poor innocent kids...
You've got to be the first person I've ever heard defend the Kent State Shootings. That's really, really pathetic and despicable.
all were at fault
Mr.Dooomed
Find your center.
+752|6633

This. This is intriguing.
Nature is a powerful force. Those who seek to subdue nature, never do so permanently.
Commie Killer
Member
+192|6692
Wonder what the official reason for this move was.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6834|Global Command
And yet another legacy of the George W. Bush era is the death of the The Posse Comitatus Act.


I apologize to my fellow Americans and the world for ever supporting this piece of shit.


In time when General Electric makes military weapons AND controls major media outlets should we be surprised this isn't on mainstream television?
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6995|Tampa Bay Florida

S.Lythberg wrote:

djphetal wrote:

S.Lythberg wrote:

poor innocent kids...
You've got to be the first person I've ever heard defend the Kent State Shootings. That's really, really pathetic and despicable.
all were at fault
What the fuck.  A line of gunmen opened fire on people who were on their way to class.

My dad was at Kent when it happened.  Ya, some students were acting crazy.  Doesnt give the government the right to open fire onto a crowd of people in the same town. 

They were afraid of a student uprising so they murdered some people.  Fucking unbelievable that any American could excuse that.  And fuck anyone who tries to defend the National Guard for what it did on that day. 

Thank god there were some who refused to fire because it was an illegal order.  At least some of them were real Americans.

Last edited by Spearhead (2008-09-30 18:42:11)

FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6716|'Murka

ATG wrote:

And yet another legacy of the George W. Bush era is the death of the The Posse Comitatus Act.


I apologize to my fellow Americans and the world for ever supporting this piece of shit.


In time when General Electric makes military weapons AND controls major media outlets should we be surprised this isn't on mainstream television?
Please show where Posse Comitatus has been repealed. Then I'll let the lawyers know tomorrow, because it's one of the primary pieces of legislation they use when determining the legality of anything.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6649|tropical regions of london
Ill go back in the Army just to take your guns.
I-=C-A-V-E-M-A-N=-I
Member
+12|6676|Ohio

FEOS wrote:

djphetal wrote:

We're not far from martial law.
Yes we are.

Every one of that BCT's soldiers took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Not a law. Not a President. The Constitution. I'm willing to bet you won't find a soldier who would turn his gun on the citizenry.
Speaks the truth.
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6007|College Park, MD

God Save the Queen wrote:

Ill go back in the Army just to take your guns.
If I join the service I'm asking to join this brigade... getting deployed to the same country you live in doesn't sound like a bad deal
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6774

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

Ill go back in the Army just to take your guns.
If I join the service I'm asking to join this brigade... getting deployed to the same country you live in doesn't sound like a bad deal
Well-fare ftw!

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