Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6980|Canberra, AUS
Now...

Over the last three days I've been getting the idea that I've completely misinterpreted the purpose and hence success of the Palin decision.

I was thinking that Palin was an obvious ploy towards disenfranchised Hillary voters. If it was then it was a stupid move, because the Dems need to do is point out her policy stnaces and there goes that voter block.

Now I'm hearing that the reason is actually completely different: apparently, it's to reassure the hard-right Republican base (but who else were they going to vote for anyway?) as well as give McCain freedom to move his own stance towards the middle where he feels more comfortable.

Is this right? Have I been bamboozled by a background of compulsary voting, and the Pacific Ocean?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6459|what

Spark wrote:

Now I'm hearing that the reason is actually completely different: apparently, it's to reassure the hard-right Republican base (but who else were they going to vote for anyway?) as well as give McCain freedom to move his own stance towards the middle where he feels more comfortable.

Is this right?
Yes you are correct. It was and has been a genius move. McCain is not as right wing as Palin. The anti-abortion, pro-life, pro-guns mother is the perfect spokeswoman for the hard right. McCain on the other hand needs to take the shine away from Obama. To do this it's much easier for him to move towards the centre and catch swinging and uncommitted voters. That way McCain can hopefully take the middle ground, Palin covers the extreme right and the Republicans should have enough to combat the charismatic Obama change campaign.

The left definitely want Obama, the right certainly want Palin, McCain needs to gain the middle ground that will decide the upcoming election.

However, it was also a great move, because Biden was specifically chosen as, you could call it, attack dog. He was selected as VP candidate to strongly criticise McCain and his VP nomination, for the simple and obvious reason Biden has the experience, has been in politics for a hell of a long time and knew the field really well. The problem now is that he can't attack Palin as strongly as he would like however, because that would come off as attacking the vulnerable new girl on the block, who let's be honest it's good to see a female having a go in politics. Rather than criticising her character, he has to now stick to policy only. Which has been one of the least publicized Palin traits. You know everything about her background, family life, it's her policy goals that have taken a backseat by the media.

The problem that the Republicans do face, is that Palin is not going to woo any of the Hilary supporters as you suggested. She will and has, at first. However, once her stance on issues such as abortion, drugs, gun laws are made more clear and public, voters are going to find that she is vastly different from what Senator Hilary was offering.

The Democrats are caught in the awkward position of not being able to attack Palins character, as that would receive calls of sexism, so they have to catch her out on policy issues. The Republicans know this so have to be very careful in what position she has to adopt, otherwise the waiting Biden will hit back with his own experience and skills. That's why you'll find Palin has been very careful during her speeches and press conferences, she'll push more towards her personal family values, her stance on abortion, with her daughter as an example of her pro life position, taken again from her own life experiences - it's the wide ranging issues of health care and taxes that McCain is more suited towards.

McCain is to cover the middle ground, Palin the right wing, who aren't really concerned about the health care and taxes policy as you would think because Republicans main supporter base believe a Democrat running these departments goes so strongly against what they believe.

At the moment we're still waiting for Biden to have a real dig against Palin. He's waiting for her to slip up on policy. Obama made the mistake of hitting her too early, she got a lot of sympathy from it. And also media attention. Obama and the Democrats new plan is to focus on McCain as best as possible, try to wrestle the undecided voters towards them, and take the attention away from Palin. Obama was on the cover of Time magazine, he enjoyed a huge wave of public exposure in the lead up to the Democrat selections against Hilary. Now Palin is riding that popularity. It's one of the the reasons Biden has been the lesser star out of the four running for office.

So the real campaign hasn't started yet. Both sides are weighing each other up. Once the VP debates kick in you'll see what both sides strengths and weaknesses really are.

That's my take on the whole thing anyway.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
oChaos.Haze
Member
+90|6744

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Spark wrote:

Now I'm hearing that the reason is actually completely different: apparently, it's to reassure the hard-right Republican base (but who else were they going to vote for anyway?) as well as give McCain freedom to move his own stance towards the middle where he feels more comfortable.

Is this right?
Yes you are correct. It was and has been a genius move. McCain is not as right wing as Palin. The anti-abortion, pro-life, pro-guns mother is the perfect spokeswoman for the hard right. McCain on the other hand needs to take the shine away from Obama. To do this it's much easier for him to move towards the centre and catch swinging and uncommitted voters. That way McCain can hopefully take the middle ground, Palin covers the extreme right and the Republicans should have enough to combat the charismatic Obama change campaign.

The left definitely want Obama, the right certainly want Palin, McCain needs to gain the middle ground that will decide the upcoming election.

However, it was also a great move, because Biden was specifically chosen as, you could call it, attack dog. He was selected as VP candidate to strongly criticise McCain and his VP nomination, for the simple and obvious reason Biden has the experience, has been in politics for a hell of a long time and knew the field really well. The problem now is that he can't attack Palin as strongly as he would like however, because that would come off as attacking the vulnerable new girl on the block, who let's be honest it's good to see a female having a go in politics. Rather than criticising her character, he has to now stick to policy only. Which has been one of the least publicized Palin traits. You know everything about her background, family life, it's her policy goals that have taken a backseat by the media.

The problem that the Republicans do face, is that Palin is not going to woo any of the Hilary supporters as you suggested. She will and has, at first. However, once her stance on issues such as abortion, drugs, gun laws are made more clear and public, voters are going to find that she is vastly different from what Senator Hilary was offering.

The Democrats are caught in the awkward position of not being able to attack Palins character, as that would receive calls of sexism, so they have to catch her out on policy issues. The Republicans know this so have to be very careful in what position she has to adopt, otherwise the waiting Biden will hit back with his own experience and skills. That's why you'll find Palin has been very careful during her speeches and press conferences, she'll push more towards her personal family values, her stance on abortion, with her daughter as an example of her pro life position, taken again from her own life experiences - it's the wide ranging issues of health care and taxes that McCain is more suited towards.

McCain is to cover the middle ground, Palin the right wing, who aren't really concerned about the health care and taxes policy as you would think because Republicans main supporter base believe a Democrat running these departments goes so strongly against what they believe.

At the moment we're still waiting for Biden to have a real dig against Palin. He's waiting for her to slip up on policy. Obama made the mistake of hitting her too early, she got a lot of sympathy from it. And also media attention. Obama and the Democrats new plan is to focus on McCain as best as possible, try to wrestle the undecided voters towards them, and take the attention away from Palin. Obama was on the cover of Time magazine, he enjoyed a huge wave of public exposure in the lead up to the Democrat selections against Hilary. Now Palin is riding that popularity. It's one of the the reasons Biden has been the lesser star out of the four running for office.

So the real campaign hasn't started yet. Both sides are weighing each other up. Once the VP debates kick in you'll see what both sides strengths and weaknesses really are.

That's my take on the whole thing anyway.
I agree with a lot of that.  Biden is going to rip Palin apart in the VP debates, making up points that Obama might lose with his on the spot weaknesses. 

I also hate the double standard that Jon Stewart showed so well.  When Hillary was running, if she caught flak for being a woman, the hard right said, "Hey it's politics, you step in as a woman, you better be ready for that."  Then as soon as Palin gets attacked once, they change their tune to, "Hey that's sexist!"  Politics, gotta love em.  You can completely change your ideology in a nanosecond and people eat it up like it's cake.
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6649|tropical regions of london
palin's taking dramatic falls in the polls this week.  it was a novelty thats wearing thin.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6774

God Save the Queen wrote:

palin's taking dramatic falls in the polls this week.  it was a novelty thats wearing thin.
Or maybe people are finding out that she doesn't belief in Dinosaurs.
TrueMusou
Member
+36|6466|United States Of Hamerica

oChaos.Haze wrote:

I agree with a lot of that.  Biden is going to rip Palin apart in the VP debates, making up points that Obama might lose with his on the spot weaknesses. 

I also hate the double standard that Jon Stewart showed so well.  When Hillary was running, if she caught flak for being a woman, the hard right said, "Hey it's politics, you step in as a woman, you better be ready for that."  Then as soon as Palin gets attacked once, they change their tune to, "Hey that's sexist!"  Politics, gotta love em.  You can completely change your ideology in a nanosecond and people eat it up like it's cake.
First off:
The cake is a lie.

Secondly: why is it that we get the truth out of Colbert and Stewart more often than actual "news" shows?
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6774

TrueMusou wrote:

oChaos.Haze wrote:

I agree with a lot of that.  Biden is going to rip Palin apart in the VP debates, making up points that Obama might lose with his on the spot weaknesses. 

I also hate the double standard that Jon Stewart showed so well.  When Hillary was running, if she caught flak for being a woman, the hard right said, "Hey it's politics, you step in as a woman, you better be ready for that."  Then as soon as Palin gets attacked once, they change their tune to, "Hey that's sexist!"  Politics, gotta love em.  You can completely change your ideology in a nanosecond and people eat it up like it's cake.
First off:
The cake is a lie.

Secondly: why is it that we get the truth out of Colbert and Stewart more often than actual "news" shows?
Cuz they don't have an agenda.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6906|132 and Bush

Spark wrote:

Now I'm hearing that the reason is actually completely different: apparently, it's to reassure the hard-right Republican base (but who else were they going to vote for anyway?) as well as give McCain freedom to move his own stance towards the middle where he feels more comfortable.
Lots of people were saying that from the beginning. There is no doubt that at least part of the reason was an effort to appease the far right wing. Another reason is that it has successfully taken the media's eye off of the ball. Coverage is good.. even if it's not great.

@ GS I'd be worried about about the 13 points Obama has lost since June. He needs to get NY back to solid territory. That is something that I thought would have been a given. . I think he will over the next month though.

DoctaStrangelove wrote:

Or maybe people are finding out that she doesn't belief in Dinosaurs.
Maybe you shouldn't be using the words of Matt Damon as gospel?
Sarah is Not a Literal Creationist

CNN to the man who started the rumor:
Xbone Stormsurgezz
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6717|'Murka

God Save the Queen wrote:

palin's taking dramatic falls in the polls this week.  it was a novelty thats wearing thin.
Wonder what would happen if every single statement Biden made was subjected to scrutiny from all angles, fact checked by every news outlet, etc.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6955

I just noticed how hilariously Canadian Palin sounds.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7067

FEOS wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

palin's taking dramatic falls in the polls this week.  it was a novelty thats wearing thin.
Wonder what would happen if every single statement Biden made was subjected to scrutiny from all angles, fact checked by every news outlet, etc.
bingo.  they get off easy.  but hey, there is no left wing influence in the media.
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6649|tropical regions of london

usmarine wrote:

FEOS wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

palin's taking dramatic falls in the polls this week.  it was a novelty thats wearing thin.
Wonder what would happen if every single statement Biden made was subjected to scrutiny from all angles, fact checked by every news outlet, etc.
bingo.  they get off easy.  but hey, there is no left wing influence in the media.
dude, two months before an election and this woman gets introduced to national attention.  Or she gets a free pass because she is against the grain of the left wing influence.  be realistic man.  pretty much no body heard of this person before she bacame the vp pick.  now we arent supposed to ask too many questions.  joe biden has had more than a couple of weeks of national attention. 

dont let annoying lefties cloud objectivity.
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|7019|Purplicious Wisconsin

Spark wrote:

Now...

Over the last three days I've been getting the idea that I've completely misinterpreted the purpose and hence success of the Palin decision.

I was thinking that Palin was an obvious ploy towards disenfranchised Hillary voters. If it was then it was a stupid move, because the Dems need to do is point out her policy stnaces and there goes that voter block.

Now I'm hearing that the reason is actually completely different: apparently, it's to reassure the hard-right Republican base (but who else were they going to vote for anyway?) as well as give McCain freedom to move his own stance towards the middle where he feels more comfortable.

Is this right? Have I been bamboozled by a background of compulsary voting, and the Pacific Ocean?
Some people were going to stay at home had it not been for Palin
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
TrueMusou
Member
+36|6466|United States Of Hamerica

ghettoperson wrote:

I just noticed how hilariously Canadian Palin sounds.
Geographically they're Americans, but as far as I'm concerned, Alaskans are more culturally related to Canadians than Americans.
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|7019|Purplicious Wisconsin
Sean Hannity is interviewing Palin now on Fox News
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7067

God Save the Queen wrote:

usmarine wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Wonder what would happen if every single statement Biden made was subjected to scrutiny from all angles, fact checked by every news outlet, etc.
bingo.  they get off easy.  but hey, there is no left wing influence in the media.
dude, two months before an election and this woman gets introduced to national attention.  Or she gets a free pass because she is against the grain of the left wing influence.  be realistic man.  pretty much no body heard of this person before she bacame the vp pick.  now we arent supposed to ask too many questions.  joe biden has had more than a couple of weeks of national attention. 

dont let annoying lefties cloud objectivity.
i understand bro.  but it is fairly one sided in the media.  as much as i hate "the view" it represents a lot of people sadly.  look at the way they treated obama and the way they treated mccain.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6980|Canberra, AUS

War Man wrote:

Spark wrote:

Now...

Over the last three days I've been getting the idea that I've completely misinterpreted the purpose and hence success of the Palin decision.

I was thinking that Palin was an obvious ploy towards disenfranchised Hillary voters. If it was then it was a stupid move, because the Dems need to do is point out her policy stnaces and there goes that voter block.

Now I'm hearing that the reason is actually completely different: apparently, it's to reassure the hard-right Republican base (but who else were they going to vote for anyway?) as well as give McCain freedom to move his own stance towards the middle where he feels more comfortable.

Is this right? Have I been bamboozled by a background of compulsary voting, and the Pacific Ocean?
Some people were going to stay at home had it not been for Palin
Well, I'm used to a system where those who do that get a five hundred buck fine.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
imortal
Member
+240|6971|Austin, TX

Spark wrote:

War Man wrote:

Spark wrote:

Now...

Over the last three days I've been getting the idea that I've completely misinterpreted the purpose and hence success of the Palin decision.

I was thinking that Palin was an obvious ploy towards disenfranchised Hillary voters. If it was then it was a stupid move, because the Dems need to do is point out her policy stnaces and there goes that voter block.

Now I'm hearing that the reason is actually completely different: apparently, it's to reassure the hard-right Republican base (but who else were they going to vote for anyway?) as well as give McCain freedom to move his own stance towards the middle where he feels more comfortable.

Is this right? Have I been bamboozled by a background of compulsary voting, and the Pacific Ocean?
Some people were going to stay at home had it not been for Palin
Well, I'm used to a system where those who do that get a five hundred buck fine.
Yes?  Well we live in a nation where a 25% voter turnout is considered high.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6717|'Murka

God Save the Queen wrote:

usmarine wrote:

FEOS wrote:


Wonder what would happen if every single statement Biden made was subjected to scrutiny from all angles, fact checked by every news outlet, etc.
bingo.  they get off easy.  but hey, there is no left wing influence in the media.
dude, two months before an election and this woman gets introduced to national attention.  Or she gets a free pass because she is against the grain of the left wing influence.  be realistic man.  pretty much no body heard of this person before she bacame the vp pick.  now we arent supposed to ask too many questions.  joe biden has had more than a couple of weeks of national attention. 

dont let annoying lefties cloud objectivity.
He has? The primary candidates got grilled like this? I think not.

I'm not saying she doesn't deserve the scrutiny. I am saying that ALL candidates deserve the same level of scrutiny. That's all.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6848|Texas - Bigger than France
There's lots of reasons spark:
-well respected (although under known) in the party
-clinton aspect
-energy is an issue, alaska provides 20%
-gets people in the experience debate no matter what angle u use
-she's not institutionalized by dc, so suddenly the gop gains ground against "change"
-a counter to the mccain is out of touch with the common man

i've seen a few vp picks in my time, and i think this one actually is an interesting move.  the gop strategists are definately schooling the dems, but i don't think they'll win.  however, the dems have had to run the full court press for a long, long time due to hillary...they are likely out of "surprises".  and unfortunately these "surprises" play well in the polls.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6596|Éire
As an outsider I have to say that at face value the selection of Palin as VP candidate smacks of the Reps trying desperately to attain the facade of 'change' and 'thinking outside the box'. I mean the Dems put forward a black guy and a woman for the number one slot while McCain, an elderly Rep who many see as an extension of the Bush era, won the Reps nomination by a country mile. Now it seems as though they've scoured the country for someone who seems 'out there' and 'progressive' and all they could come up with is a former beauty queen who the rest of the world has certainly never heard of and who, by the sounds of many of the posts in this thread, not many Americans have heard much of either.

I still think the Republicans will win though.
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6649|tropical regions of london

usmarine wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

usmarine wrote:


bingo.  they get off easy.  but hey, there is no left wing influence in the media.
dude, two months before an election and this woman gets introduced to national attention.  Or she gets a free pass because she is against the grain of the left wing influence.  be realistic man.  pretty much no body heard of this person before she bacame the vp pick.  now we arent supposed to ask too many questions.  joe biden has had more than a couple of weeks of national attention. 

dont let annoying lefties cloud objectivity.
i understand bro.  but it is fairly one sided in the media.  as much as i hate "the view" it represents a lot of people sadly.  look at the way they treated obama and the way they treated mccain.
Im not doubting a bias.  But the mccain people really cant make claims about the liberal media when he reffered to that very media as his "base".  This isnt the first time claims of a liberal bias have been made, only the first time mccain is making those claims.
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6649|tropical regions of london

FEOS wrote:

God Save the Queen wrote:

usmarine wrote:


bingo.  they get off easy.  but hey, there is no left wing influence in the media.
dude, two months before an election and this woman gets introduced to national attention.  Or she gets a free pass because she is against the grain of the left wing influence.  be realistic man.  pretty much no body heard of this person before she bacame the vp pick.  now we arent supposed to ask too many questions.  joe biden has had more than a couple of weeks of national attention. 

dont let annoying lefties cloud objectivity.
He has? The primary candidates got grilled like this? I think not.

I'm not saying she doesn't deserve the scrutiny. I am saying that ALL candidates deserve the same level of scrutiny. That's all.
the primary candidates werent put on a national ticket 2 months before the election.
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|7019|Purplicious Wisconsin

Braddock wrote:

As an outsider I have to say that at face value the selection of Palin as VP candidate smacks of the Reps trying desperately to attain the facade of 'change' and 'thinking outside the box'. I mean the Dems put forward a black guy and a woman for the number one slot while McCain, an elderly Rep who many see as an extension of the Bush era, won the Reps nomination by a country mile. Now it seems as though they've scoured the country for someone who seems 'out there' and 'progressive' and all they could come up with is a former beauty queen who the rest of the world has certainly never heard of and who, by the sounds of many of the posts in this thread, not many Americans have heard much of either.

I still think the Republicans will win though.
I think so too, I want them to win. Barack Obama is not someone I can trust
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6596|Éire

War Man wrote:

Braddock wrote:

As an outsider I have to say that at face value the selection of Palin as VP candidate smacks of the Reps trying desperately to attain the facade of 'change' and 'thinking outside the box'. I mean the Dems put forward a black guy and a woman for the number one slot while McCain, an elderly Rep who many see as an extension of the Bush era, won the Reps nomination by a country mile. Now it seems as though they've scoured the country for someone who seems 'out there' and 'progressive' and all they could come up with is a former beauty queen who the rest of the world has certainly never heard of and who, by the sounds of many of the posts in this thread, not many Americans have heard much of either.

I still think the Republicans will win though.
I think so too, I want them to win. Barack Obama is not someone I can trust
The Reps and the Dems are as bad as each other in my opinion but the majority of the outside world would probably prefer Obama because they would presume him to be less of a war monger than McCain.

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