Yeah Spark, to graduate HS, stay off of drugs, get a job, work hard, get promoted etc........I can see the impossibility of it all.Spark wrote:
Lowing, I don't think you get it.
Not only is completely ignoring the lower brackets at a governmental level crass and incompassionate to the extreme, it's also dangerous socially and creates economic deadweight. I assure you the vast majority of those on welfare would like to get their stable job, own house etc. like the rest of the middle class, but they can't because it's not easy to break out of your own level.
And proud.lowing wrote:
After all of this Cam it boils down to one thing......Like it or not, YOU are a socialist,
No I don't.lowing wrote:
YOU expect to be taken care of by your govt.
I expect a hand/second chance if I'm in a pickle - I'll couple it with hard work to get me out of the hole.lowing wrote:
YOU expect your govt. to protect you from failure.
Not in most areas of life.lowing wrote:
YOU expect the govt. to make choices for you.
Fair enough. Finding a country that doesn't dictate what you must pay in taxes will be pretty darned difficult - I advise you start looking asap. Incidentally I have loads of freedom in my life and lots of disposable income to spend all manner of luxuries.lowing wrote:
I expect freedom in my life. I do not want my govt. deciding for my when I should be charitable or "NEIGHBORLINESS" or nice. I do not want the govt. deciding for me how much I make is too much so they will just steal the rest and give to those that opt out of earning for themselves. You can have it if you want it, you are welcome to it.
You're damn right the tax payer shouldn't pay for this.lowing wrote:
Yeah the banks had it coming, and the resolution should fall on them and the parties involved, not the tax payer. This is what happens when democrats get together and figure out it is best to get involved in peoples lives and INVENT loans for people who otherwise could not get them.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-09-15 07:01:07)
Yeah Spark, to graduate HS, stay off of drugs, get a job, work hard, get promoted etc........I can see the futility of it all.Spark wrote:
Lowing, I don't think you get it.
Not only is completely ignoring the lower brackets at a governmental level crass and incompassionate to the extreme, it's also dangerous socially and creates economic deadweight. I assure you the vast majority of those on welfare would like to get their stable job, own house etc. like the rest of the middle class, but they can't because it's not easy to break out of your own level.
Unless of course, the argument isn't going your way then you can scream "you're generalizing"Spark wrote:
Oh come on now.
One can afford to be flexible in things like this - the countries aren't that different.
Cam I did find a country where the govt. can stay out of your lives. Now it is up to the voters to decide which govt. they want. A govt. to control everything in your life to take care of you, or a govt. that lets you decide what you want to do and succeed or fail at your choices. I vote for freedom.CameronPoe wrote:
And proud.lowing wrote:
After all of this Cam it boils down to one thing......Like it or not, YOU are a socialist,No I don't.lowing wrote:
YOU expect to be taken care of by your govt.I expect a hand/second chance if I'm in a pickle - I'll couple it with hard work to get me out of the hole. I would deserve it for working far harder than those with the easier lives above me in the chain.lowing wrote:
YOU expect your govt. to protect you from failure.Not in most areas of life.lowing wrote:
YOU expect the govt. to make choices for you.Fair enough. Finding a country that doesn't dictate what you must pay in taxes will be pretty darned difficult - I advise you start looking asap. Incidentally I have loads of freedom in my life and lots of disposable income to spend all manner of luxuries.lowing wrote:
I expect freedom in my life. I do not want my govt. deciding for my when I should be charitable or "NEIGHBORLINESS" or nice. I do not want the govt. deciding for me how much I make is too much so they will just steal the rest and give to those that opt out of earning for themselves. You can have it if you want it, you are welcome to it.You're damn right the tax payer shouldn't pay for this.lowing wrote:
Yeah the banks had it coming, and the resolution should fall on them and the parties involved, not the tax payer. This is what happens when democrats get together and figure out it is best to get involved in peoples lives and INVENT loans for people who otherwise could not get them.
You can be a proud socialist, you have every right. I however choose freedom. Enjoy.
Freedom to give huge chunks of your wages towards wars of choice and allies that have nothing of value to offer in return? You're about as "free" as everyone else... except you don't have as many social services on offer to you.lowing wrote:
Cam I did find a country where the govt. can stay out of your lives. Now it is up to the voters to decide which govt. they want. A govt. to control everything in your life to take care of you, or a govt. that lets you decide what you want to do and succeed or fail at your choices. I vote for freedom.CameronPoe wrote:
And proud.lowing wrote:
After all of this Cam it boils down to one thing......Like it or not, YOU are a socialist,No I don't.lowing wrote:
YOU expect to be taken care of by your govt.I expect a hand/second chance if I'm in a pickle - I'll couple it with hard work to get me out of the hole. I would deserve it for working far harder than those with the easier lives above me in the chain.lowing wrote:
YOU expect your govt. to protect you from failure.Not in most areas of life.lowing wrote:
YOU expect the govt. to make choices for you.Fair enough. Finding a country that doesn't dictate what you must pay in taxes will be pretty darned difficult - I advise you start looking asap. Incidentally I have loads of freedom in my life and lots of disposable income to spend all manner of luxuries.lowing wrote:
I expect freedom in my life. I do not want my govt. deciding for my when I should be charitable or "NEIGHBORLINESS" or nice. I do not want the govt. deciding for me how much I make is too much so they will just steal the rest and give to those that opt out of earning for themselves. You can have it if you want it, you are welcome to it.You're damn right the tax payer shouldn't pay for this.lowing wrote:
Yeah the banks had it coming, and the resolution should fall on them and the parties involved, not the tax payer. This is what happens when democrats get together and figure out it is best to get involved in peoples lives and INVENT loans for people who otherwise could not get them.
You can be a proud socialist, you have every right. I however choose freedom. Enjoy.
Well it doesn't sound like it the way you're whining. And last time I checked no option existed in your upcoming election that promoted the idea of controlling 'everything in your life'. I must have missed that one. You have a government that decides to bail out failed business and saddle the taxpayer with the bill, provide human rights violating countries with tens of billions of unreciprocated military and financial aid and happily spend your tax money on frivolous wastes of US life and limb in distant backward nations. Keep 'voting for freedom'. Be my guest.lowing wrote:
Cam I did find a country where the govt. can stay out of your lives. Now it is up to the voters to decide which govt. they want. A govt. to control everything in your life to take care of you, or a govt. that lets you decide what you want to do and succeed or fail at your choices. I vote for freedom.
PS You sound like a parody of an American btw, especially with your last comment.
I have no freedom? lol. What a plonker. I can do everything you can do depending on how much effort I put in. There are no ceilings.lowing wrote:
You can be a proud socialist, you have every right. I however choose freedom. Enjoy.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-09-15 07:21:38)
I am not whinning Cam, I unlike you, do not want to pay for a free ride for someone who should be paying. I do not want my govt. telling me how much is too much, or what I will do with my disposable income. Nothing more nothing less.CameronPoe wrote:
Well it doesn't sound like it the way you're whining. And last time I checked no option existed in your upcoming election that promoted the idea of controlling 'everything in your life'. I must have missed that one. You have a government that decides to bail out failed business and saddle the taxpayer with the bill, provide human rights violating countries with tens of billions of unreciprocated military and financial aid and happily spend your tax money on frivolous wastes of US life and limb in distant backward nations. Keep 'voting for freedom'. Be my guest.lowing wrote:
Cam I did find a country where the govt. can stay out of your lives. Now it is up to the voters to decide which govt. they want. A govt. to control everything in your life to take care of you, or a govt. that lets you decide what you want to do and succeed or fail at your choices. I vote for freedom.
PS You sound like a parody of an American btw, especially with your last comment.I have no freedom? lol. What a plonker. I can do everything you can do depending on how much effort I put in. There are no ceilings.lowing wrote:
You can be a proud socialist, you have every right. I however choose freedom. Enjoy.
You have freedom? You do not even have the freedom to protect yourself or your home against a home invasion. You have a govt. watching you to make sure you do not make too much money, money they feel they could put to better use than you can. This is what I do not want from my govt.
I would rather give money to national security then to a slug any day of the week.Braddock wrote:
Freedom to give huge chunks of your wages towards wars of choice and allies that have nothing of value to offer in return? You're about as "free" as everyone else... except you don't have as many social services on offer to you.lowing wrote:
Cam I did find a country where the govt. can stay out of your lives. Now it is up to the voters to decide which govt. they want. A govt. to control everything in your life to take care of you, or a govt. that lets you decide what you want to do and succeed or fail at your choices. I vote for freedom.CameronPoe wrote:
And proud.lowing wrote:
After all of this Cam it boils down to one thing......Like it or not, YOU are a socialist,No I don't.lowing wrote:
YOU expect to be taken care of by your govt.I expect a hand/second chance if I'm in a pickle - I'll couple it with hard work to get me out of the hole. I would deserve it for working far harder than those with the easier lives above me in the chain.lowing wrote:
YOU expect your govt. to protect you from failure.Not in most areas of life.lowing wrote:
YOU expect the govt. to make choices for you.Fair enough. Finding a country that doesn't dictate what you must pay in taxes will be pretty darned difficult - I advise you start looking asap. Incidentally I have loads of freedom in my life and lots of disposable income to spend all manner of luxuries.lowing wrote:
I expect freedom in my life. I do not want my govt. deciding for my when I should be charitable or "NEIGHBORLINESS" or nice. I do not want the govt. deciding for me how much I make is too much so they will just steal the rest and give to those that opt out of earning for themselves. You can have it if you want it, you are welcome to it.
You're damn right the tax payer shouldn't pay for this.
You can be a proud socialist, you have every right. I however choose freedom. Enjoy.
*sigh*lowing wrote:
Yeah Spark, to graduate HS, stay off of drugs, get a job, work hard, get promoted etc........I can see the futility of it all.Spark wrote:
Lowing, I don't think you get it.
Not only is completely ignoring the lower brackets at a governmental level crass and incompassionate to the extreme, it's also dangerous socially and creates economic deadweight. I assure you the vast majority of those on welfare would like to get their stable job, own house etc. like the rest of the middle class, but they can't because it's not easy to break out of your own level.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
lol. Ironic that you would follow a claim of non-whining with whining.lowing wrote:
I am not whinning Cam, I unlike you, do not want to pay for a free ride for someone who should be paying. I do not want my govt. telling me how much is too much, or what I will do with my disposable income. Nothing more nothing less.
You have freedom? You do not even have the freedom to protect yourself or your home against a home invasion. You have a govt. watching you to make sure you do not make too much money, money they feel they could put to better use than you can. This is what I do not want from my govt.
Unless you're completely ignorant you will realise that my government sets no limits on my success or earning capability. There is no 'maximum salary'. You can believe in a fallacy if you really must, but in doing so you would just be being ignorant. FTR, I do have the freedom to protect myself from a home invasion, which will thankfully occur sans guns, if at all.
Yes he does, just not with a firearm. As he doesn't have a firearm its much less likely any home invader will have one either.You have freedom? You do not even have the freedom to protect yourself or your home against a home invasion.
No he has a government hoping and encouraging him to make money, so they can take a proportion of it as tax.You have a govt. watching you to make sure you do not make too much money, money they feel they could put to better use than you can.
Funny, I've never been told what I can spend my disposable income on.do not want my govt. telling me how much is too much, or what I will do with my disposable income.
LOL!I vote for freedom.
Freedom to vote for one of two parties? They're both basically the same BTW.
Freedom to have to show ID wherever you go?
Freedom to go to McDonalds or Burger King?
Freedom to subsidise dinosaur car companies churning out inefficient junk?
Freedom to never see a breast on TV?
Freedom to pay for unwarranted wars, with money and lives, to help the Saudis buy up more of America and the Israelis to hang on to their stolen patch of desert?
You enjoy the 'freedom' you've been brainwashed into believing you have.
Fuck Israel
Sorry,Cam, as much as your arrogant ass wants to believe, not agreeing with you is not whinning. We just disaagree. You want and NEED a govt. to coddle its citizens basically protecting you from, well, YOU. Protecting you from your own bad decisions and choices in life. Hand holding you. I do not want that sort of govt. interference in my life, and I do not need it. I guess I should understand why liberals do.CameronPoe wrote:
lol. Ironic that you would follow a claim of non-whining with whining.lowing wrote:
I am not whinning Cam, I unlike you, do not want to pay for a free ride for someone who should be paying. I do not want my govt. telling me how much is too much, or what I will do with my disposable income. Nothing more nothing less.
You have freedom? You do not even have the freedom to protect yourself or your home against a home invasion. You have a govt. watching you to make sure you do not make too much money, money they feel they could put to better use than you can. This is what I do not want from my govt.
Unless you're completely ignorant you will realise that my government sets no limits on my success or earning capability. There is no 'maximum salary'. You can believe in a fallacy if you really must, but in doing so you would just be being ignorant. FTR, I do have the freedom to protect myself from a home invasion, which will thankfully occur sans guns, if at all.
NOT being allowed to protect yourself is not freedom. I guess in Ireland and England protecting yourself mean a good tongue lashing to the invader I suppose.Dilbert_X wrote:
Yes he does, just not with a firearm. As he doesn't have a firearm its much less likely any home invader will have one either.You have freedom? You do not even have the freedom to protect yourself or your home against a home invasion.No he has a government hoping and encouraging him to make money, so they can take a proportion of it as tax.You have a govt. watching you to make sure you do not make too much money, money they feel they could put to better use than you can.Funny, I've never been told what I can spend my disposable income on.do not want my govt. telling me how much is too much, or what I will do with my disposable income.LOL!I vote for freedom.
Freedom to vote for one of two parties? They're both basically the same BTW.
Freedom to have to show ID wherever you go?
Freedom to go to McDonalds or Burger King?
Freedom to subsidise dinosaur car companies churning out inefficient junk?
Freedom to never see a breast on TV?
Freedom to pay for unwarranted wars, with money and lives, to help the Saudis buy up more of America and the Israelis to hang on to their stolen patch of desert?
You enjoy the 'freedom' you've been brainwashed into believing you have.
His govt. is hoping he EARNS more so they can TAKE more. and why? because he worked hard s oothers do not have to.
Actually we are free to vote for whoever we want.
as opposed to having big brother filming your every move?
Actually we are allowed to eat whereever we want
Has nothing to do with "my freedom"
See plenty of "breasts" on TV, except we call them tits.
Has nothing to do with my freedom and is a matter of opinion on your part, not freedom,.
I don't need anyone to 'hold my hand', never have and probably never will. A government is designed to ensure society runs smoothly, to defend the security of the citizenry and to administer justice. It's kind of rich talking about 'protecting' us 'from our own bad decisions' while your government bails out shortsighted and grossly negligent banks and building societies. lollowing wrote:
Sorry,Cam, as much as your arrogant ass wants to believe, not agreeing with you is not whinning. We just disaagree. You want and NEED a govt. to coddle its citizens basically protecting you from, well, YOU. Protecting you from your own bad decisions and choices in life. Hand holding you. I do not want that sort of govt. interference in my life, and I do not need it. I guess I should understand why liberals do.
I don't need to be coddled - I will facilitate the betterment of the lower echelons of soceity however, in the interests of the smooth running of and economic prosperity of the country.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-09-16 07:01:54)
Really, didn't your govt. hand hold your way to college?CameronPoe wrote:
I don't need anyone to 'hold my hand', never have and probably never will. A government is designed to ensure society runs smoothly, to defend the security of the citizenry and to administer justice. It's kind of rich talking about 'protecting' us 'from our own bad decisions' while your government bails out shortsighted and grossly negligent banks and building societies. lollowing wrote:
Sorry,Cam, as much as your arrogant ass wants to believe, not agreeing with you is not whinning. We just disaagree. You want and NEED a govt. to coddle its citizens basically protecting you from, well, YOU. Protecting you from your own bad decisions and choices in life. Hand holding you. I do not want that sort of govt. interference in my life, and I do not need it. I guess I should understand why liberals do.
I do not agree with govt. bailouts of banks, and certainly not the morons that PROMISED the banks to repay their loans. We have been over this Cam, we agree on it, find something else to "lol" at.
If you want to call it that then be my guest. Without that education I would probably not be earning a fraction of what I earn today. What you just highlighted is what one would describe as a good thing. It's not my fault you don't care about anyone else and don't see the benefit of moving forward together.lowing wrote:
Really, didn't your govt. hand hold your way to college?
I do not agree with govt. bailouts of banks, and certainly not the morons that PROMISED the banks to repay their loans. We have been over this Cam, we agree on it, find something else to "lol" at.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-09-16 07:09:02)
Nope what I just highlighted is your govt. coddling you. They have taken on the responsibility of educating you and paying for it, instead of you having to do so. How about your healthcare, more coddling there as well. They will take care of you, instead of you taking care of yourself. They have decided that guns are too dangerous for you, but not too dangerous for them, no worries though, they will protect you, no need for you to do it.CameronPoe wrote:
If you want to call it that then I be my guest. Without that education I would probably not be earning a fraction of what I earn today. What you just highlighted is what one would describe as a good thing.lowing wrote:
Really, didn't your govt. hand hold your way to college?
I do not agree with govt. bailouts of banks, and certainly not the morons that PROMISED the banks to repay their loans. We have been over this Cam, we agree on it, find something else to "lol" at.
They didn't take on the responsibility of educating me in its entirety: I had to have the requisite level of intelligence to engage in tertiary education and was responsible for working my ass off to get my honours degree. With thousands of bright individuals having been granted this golden opportunity the Irish economy propelled itself to the forefront of the tech sector, attracting all the big multinationals. That economic growth in turn spurted massive growth in the services sector. You can't get past 'me, me, me' when this system can benefit you in overall economic terms through the benefits of having a highly educated workforce, attracting high tech industry and thus massive opportunities in terms of employment.lowing wrote:
Nope what I just highlighted is your govt. coddling you. They have taken on the responsibility of educating you and paying for it, instead of you having to do so. How about your healthcare, more coddling there as well. They will take care of you, instead of you taking care of yourself. They have decided that guns are too dangerous for you, but not too dangerous for them, no worries though, they will protect you, no need for you to do it.
I am proud of the European healthcare systems. I'm a humanitarian. I recognise that it's to my detriment when people working in poorly paid jobs doing work that is not very attractive, for whatever reason, fall ill and cannot afford treatment. We just have to fundamentally disagree. My interest is in my own good but also in the greater good - the good of us all - your interest is solely in the personal good.
The day I need a gun to feel safe will be a very sad day indeed. That being a 'freedom' says more about your country than mine.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-09-16 09:28:01)
Dilbert_X wrote:
Freedom to never see a breast on TV?
Now thats funny, I don't care who you are.lowing wrote:
See plenty of "breasts" on TV, except we call them tits.
Malloy must go
Yes, they have provided us with the means to an education. I'm sorry you regard that as an infringement on personal freedom.lowing wrote:
Nope what I just highlighted is your govt. coddling you. They have taken on the responsibility of educating you and paying for it, instead of you having to do so.
Yes, our Government has chosen a system that provides the option of private health insurance for those that can afford it and a public health service for those who cannot. Again, I'm sorry that you see such a measure as an infringement of personal freedom... I guess we must have a bit of extra tax money lying around because it's not being spent on weapons or given to Israel.lowing wrote:
How about your healthcare, more coddling there as well. They will take care of you, instead of you taking care of yourself.
The Garda Síochana don't actually carry guns with them lowing. The only people in this country with legally held guns are armed response units, detectives, the military and farmers. I've never seen a gun in the hands of anyone other than the groups I've just mentioned... if that's an infringement of my personal freedom then I wholeheartedly welcome it.lowing wrote:
They have decided that guns are too dangerous for you, but not too dangerous for them, no worries though, they will protect you, no need for you to do it.
Yeah Cam, they took on the responsibility of educating you and keep you from getting the sniffles. As far as th egun thing goes, it is more than just them keeping them from, they have taken away your right to CHOOSE. Which is basically my point. Your govt. chooses for you. Not a way I wanna live. Thanks anyway.CameronPoe wrote:
They didn't take on the responsibility of educating me in its entirety: I had to have the requisite level of intelligence to engage in tertiary education and was responsible for working my ass off to get my honours degree. With thousands of bright individuals having been granted this golden opportunity the Irish economy propelled itself to the forefront of the tech sector, attracting all the big multinationals. That economic growth in turn spurted massive growth in the services sector. You can't get past 'me, me, me' when this system can benefit you in overall economic terms through the benefits of having a highly educated workforce, attracting high tech industry and thus massive opportunities in terms of employment.lowing wrote:
Nope what I just highlighted is your govt. coddling you. They have taken on the responsibility of educating you and paying for it, instead of you having to do so. How about your healthcare, more coddling there as well. They will take care of you, instead of you taking care of yourself. They have decided that guns are too dangerous for you, but not too dangerous for them, no worries though, they will protect you, no need for you to do it.
I am proud of the European healthcare systems. I'm a humanitarian. I recognise that it's to my detriment when people working in poorly paid jobs doing work that is not very attractive, for whatever reason, fall ill and cannot afford treatment. We just have to fundamentally disagree. My interest is in my own good but also in the greater good - the good of us all - your interest is solely in the personal good.
The day I need a gun to feel safe will be a very sad day indeed. That being a 'freedom' says more about your country than mine.
1. Sounds great, except I do not believe in forcing people to pay for others shitty decisions in lifeBraddock wrote:
Yes, they have provided us with the means to an education. I'm sorry you regard that as an infringement on personal freedom.lowing wrote:
Nope what I just highlighted is your govt. coddling you. They have taken on the responsibility of educating you and paying for it, instead of you having to do so.Yes, our Government has chosen a system that provides the option of private health insurance for those that can afford it and a public health service for those who cannot. Again, I'm sorry that you see such a measure as an infringement of personal freedom... I guess we must have a bit of extra tax money lying around because it's not being spent on weapons or given to Israel.lowing wrote:
How about your healthcare, more coddling there as well. They will take care of you, instead of you taking care of yourself.The Garda Síochana don't actually carry guns with them lowing. The only people in this country with legally held guns are armed response units, detectives, the military and farmers. I've never seen a gun in the hands of anyone other than the groups I've just mentioned... if that's an infringement of my personal freedom then I wholeheartedly welcome it.lowing wrote:
They have decided that guns are too dangerous for you, but not too dangerous for them, no worries though, they will protect you, no need for you to do it.
2. see 1.
3. You may have extra money lying around, you seem to rape enough of your citizens to pay for everyone's life.
Gun ownership is about choice and freedom, you can or can choose not to, the point being I decide what I want to not the govt.
Buys we could do this for 30 more pages, it is safe to say, you NEED and WANT your govt. in control. I want the freedom to choose, To succeed or fail. I do not want or need a govt. safty net to catch me if I fall, nor do I feel I should catch anyone that deserves to fall. I am done with this.
And it's safe to say you have reading comprehension problems.lowing wrote:
Buys we could do this for 30 more pages, it is safe to say, you NEED and WANT your govt. in control. I want the freedom to choose, To succeed or fail. I do not want or need a govt. safty net to catch me if I fall, nor do I feel I should catch anyone that deserves to fall. I am done with this.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman