BF2S Forums You know what I was thinking would be swell?

Poseidon wrote:

xBlackPantherx wrote:

Uzique wrote:

Religious fanatics and bigots in America are causing problems for stem-cell research, yes indeed... but that's your problem. 21st century America-- do people bother reading the original post?

Yes. The huge majority of the disputers on stem-cell research are right-wing republican Christians.

Unfortunately, yeah.

What I never understood was how right wing christians were such supporters of war and "killin dem mooslems", but when it came to abortions/stem cell research, they're completely against it.

I don't think "pro-life" is a very appropriate term for right wing Christians who are also warhawks.

You should watch the George Carlin skit about pro-lifers and abortionists, it touches upon the same sentiment and hypocrisy .

God bless you

Many people said "no" to those guys.  They got killed.

Humans fight over the most insignificant things, from religion and ideology to whoever stole the last cookie out of the cookie jar. Would some wars have been avoided had religion never existed or never took root in the foundations of society? Undoubtedly yes (the Crusades comes to mind). But would other wars over other issues have taken their place? I'd like to say no, but I highly doubt it happening. As lame as it sounds, South Park pretty much nailed my vision of a religion-less world right on the head. Religion in itself isn't anything to hate or belittle, it helps people get through tough times, cope with the stresses of daily life, and sometimes with the uncertainty of death. People just have different ways of handling different things. Organized religion, hell, organized anything, is the root cause IMO; Flocking under a banner of an ideology, country, way of life, or belief has been the cause of most wars hasn't it?

I won't say that religion hasn't impeded the progression of scientific knowledge in many ways (and like Poseidon pointed out, continues to do so), Galileo was right all along but it took the Catholic Church over 100 years (I believe) to finally concede that he was right. Yet, I can't exactly say that religion hasn't helped it along in some ways. Take exploration for example. Yes, a lot of it happened to look for shorter routes to spices, precious metals, and other worldy goods, but another catalyst for the surge of exploration during the Age of Discovery was to find new people to convert to one's own religion. You can't deny that in doing so, we've made some accidental discoveries with religion as an impetus that expanded our knowledge of the world around us. (Yes, it's only one example, but I can't be arsed right now to think of more. I'm pretty sure there's more _{I hope so})

Ultimately, I believe in at least one thing about humanity: We always take a step forward towards progress, only to fall on our face and piss our pants.

Pubic wrote:

Many people said "no" to those guys.  They got killed.

pretty much...

So if religion didn't exist, the world would be perfect.

Bullshit. We're naturally pack animals and have coexisted with each other long before the bible or any commandments came around.

If we didn't have religion to scapegoat to, we'd find something else. "Hey guys, just imagine if rock music and GTA never got made, the world would be perfect..."

Edit: @David's post above mine.

So, you know that tons of people would have to say no yet you think with a time machine, you and your single being could change a thing or humiliate someone with that many followers. You'd get stabbed, many times.

And try not being so antisocial.

Last edited by Defiance (2008-08-17 21:48:01)

David.P wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Pubic wrote:

Many people said "no" to those guys.  They got killed.

pretty much...

What if many many more said no? Fuck! It's times like this I wish had a time machine! I would love to humiliate muhammed at the height of his power. Or any religious figure at the height of their power! Do you guys know how good it feels to Completely and Utterly destroy someone's ego at it's height? When everyone around them is praising them? Fuck yeah it feels good man.

I think you would enjoy working for TMZ.com.  They make a career out of humiliating celebrities.

As much as religion annoys me, I have to agree with the posters who have been pointing out that, even if religion didn't exist, we'd find new reasons to discriminate against each other and kill each other.  Resources tend to be the main reason we kill each other anyway.  Religion just provides a convenient moral justification for it.

And there is plenty of worship involved outside of religion.  Some people worship celebrities; others worship money.  The problem isn't specifically religion so much as it is that a large portion of humanity is sheep-like and needs something to worship or lead them in some way.  They'd rather not have to think things through on their own.

Your logic is flawed.  You present an "either-or" proposition that is false.  The world does not choose either religion or logic.  Proposing that rejecting all belief systems and overthrowing every government would somehow make the world a perfect and logical place is absurd.  The rejection of religion does not automatically bring logic.  Nor does the rejection of authority.

I believe Jesus died for my mistakes and I will have everlasting life in heaven because of his sacrifice.  Can I prove my belief in God?  No, that's why it's called "faith."  That I have faith does not mean I reject logic and science.  Yes, the leaders of the Roman-Catholic church did hinder science in the dark ages and middle ages.  Notice that most of their doctrine which resulted in shunning science was not founded in the Bible but in the teachings of those in power.  In fact, the Catholic church made rules that were in conflict with the teachings of Jesus...hence the Protestant Reformation and Catholic Counter-reformation.

David.P wrote:

What if many many more said no? Fuck! It's times like this I wish had a time machine! I would love to humiliate muhammed at the height of his power. Or any religious figure at the height of their power! Do you guys know how good it feels to Completely and Utterly destroy someone's ego at it's height? When everyone around them is praising them? Fuck yeah it feels good man.

Uh, yeah...so you like to put down others to make yourself feel good...real mature.

Note on the OP: People did say "no" to Jesus...that's why they killed him.  People also said "no" to every other major religion, which is why there are many religions.

xBlackPantherx wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

I believe Jesus died for my mistakes and I will have everlasting life in heaven because of his sacrifice.  Can I prove my belief in God?  No, that's why it's called "faith."  That I have faith does not mean I reject logic and science.  Yes, the leaders of the Roman-Catholic church did hinder science in the dark ages and middle ages.  Notice that most of their doctrine which resulted in shunning science was not founded in the Bible but in the teachings of those in power.  In fact, the Catholic church made rules that were in conflict with the teachings of Jesus...hence the Protestant Reformation and Catholic Counter-reformation.

You're 'faith' is incredibly flawed, not taught truely, and is very hypocritical. As I've said many many many times. Actually study the bible and your religion and forget every single thing you have been...dare I say it..."taught".

You will get that heaven and hell are not tangible entities. They are theoretical, figurative places meant to be seen as a state of mental being while you are dying knowing that you contributed significantly to the human society simply by following the moral teachings of Jesus and following his "father's" (figurative person used to set an example) doing's and examples he claimed to have set. I don't have any doubt Jesus existed and inspired many to follow high moral principles, but his magical qualities and the notion that evolved after he died that heaven, hell, and god are all literal I disbelieve and find it ignorant. Religion, in itself is an incredible thing, its simply the teachings and corruption that have gotten me off it.

EDIT: By "your faith" I mean your religion in general, not your belief personally.

In the end, isn't one's interpretation of a religion what faith is? Even if it's taught or self-realised, if someone has enough conviction to believe in something, regardless of whether its abstract or tangible, that's their faith and their reality. Simply stating that heaven and hell are meant to be one thing may correspond to your own beliefs, but to someone else heaven and hell probably mean something else. Doesn't mean they're right or wrong though.

I'm an atheist myself, but one of the things that drove me even further away from religion and church was that there were quite a few people who flat out said my own beliefs were wrong, that this particular religion/church was the road to salvation, and so on without giving a thought to what I believed in. I don't mind when someone believes something is true, even when I don't think it is; but it annoys me when people try to debunk other's set of beliefs by saying they're wrong, illogical, etc.

TrollmeaT wrote:

Yes in a perfect world there would be no religion & people would use thier minds instead of feelings. Aristotle is the true father of what the american mindset should be.

Sure, a perfect world means no religion, but removing religion does not mean the world will be perfect.

I don't get what you're trying to say by the Aristotle comment. What the American mindset should be? Sure, Americans should have that mindset then so should everyone else. You know, in the world. For a perfect world. World.

xBlackPantherx wrote:

Well said. But there is no such thing as a perfect world. Read the first part of the book "I don't believe in atheists" and you'll see why. The only thing scarier than a "Christian Supremacist" is an "Atheistic Utopian". They "...justify mass killing millions to billions via 'science and logic' in order to eradicate the 'inadequate' and the 'barbaric' for a 'logically and scientifically perfect utopia..."

Oh, if only there was a perfect world, but I understand perfectly it's a ridiculous ideal. As bad as religious extremists can be, atheist radicals are as bad as any. In that sense, atheism is as bad as any religion. The challenge is simple respecting other peoples beliefs and living with your own.

Drakef wrote:

Defiance wrote:

As bad as religious extremists can be, atheist radicals are as bad as any. In that sense, atheism is as bad as any religion.

I'm interested. How is atheism "bad as any religion"?

Read my post.

Here:

me wrote:

Well said. But there is no such thing as a perfect world. Read the first part of the book "I don't believe in atheists" and you'll see why. The only thing scarier than a "Christian Supremacist" is an "Atheistic Utopian". They "...justify mass killing millions to billions via 'science and logic' in order to eradicate the 'inadequate' and the 'barbaric' for a 'logically and scientifically perfect utopia..."

Drakef wrote:

I must be missing it. What does a "logically and scientifically perfect utopia" have to do with atheism? How does atheism "justify mass killing millions to billions via 'science and logic'"? Are you really quoting from I Don't Believe in Atheists? You could do better.

You are missing it. What part of the term "Atheistic Utopian" do you not understand?? The people that are defined by this term are a step beyond the ordinary atheist. They seek a perfect utopia where everyone is perfect and will eliminate millions upon millions who are 'inadequate' or 'barbaric', as defined by their views, through the means of 'science and logic'; science being mainly WMD's. I'll be straight with you. I plain don't get your last statement. I was quoting it, roughly anyways, just from what I remember accurately enough; if that's what you're asking??

Last edited by xBlackPantherx (2008-08-18 02:23:48)