Anyway the OP was, Obama is a racist according to YOU...........So come on Cam, you agree with me, Obama is aracist after `10 pages of insisting that he is not, only because I can cut through the PC that you previously denied was there...So lets have it CAM, give it to me..........YOU were RIGHT LOWING........
The first article did NOT indicate race explicitly. One could argue that the goggles of PC blurred the actual message but one could also argue that the goggles of racism could place it's own bias on his words.lowing wrote:
The first article was pretty clear cut, without the foggy googles of PC obstructing your visionCameronPoe wrote:
Your first article indicated nothing. This is very much more clear cut. You can only go on the evidence of what is before you.lowing wrote:
Oh, Com'on Cam, give it to me....................you were right lowing, I am sorry I ever doubted you, next time I will set aside PC and view things as they are..............Lets have it buddy, you can do it.
His subsequent comments however show that Obama IS quite happy to direct comments, that in actuality relate to social problems, at an entire race of people, which is racist.
Congratulations lowing, Obama seems to be a racist. You going to vote for him now?
You're right, Obama is racist. On the basis of your second link.lowing wrote:
Anyway the OP was, Obama is a racist according to YOU...........So come on Cam, you agree with me, Obama is aracist after `10 pages of insisting that he is not, only because I can cut through the PC that you previously denied was there...So lets have it CAM, give it to me..........YOU were RIGHT LOWING........
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-07-15 05:10:08)
EH?CameronPoe wrote:
Has he generalised based on race?lowing wrote:
Yup, even thought it is exactly what he meant........no denying that now Cam, so gimme my just reward..............."YOU WERE RIGHT LOWING" let me hear it, just once Cam, come on buddy.
Yes.
Was it a derogatory generalisation?
Yes.
Therefore, is it racism?
Yes.
Not the toughest deduction in the world I've ever made. Do you agree with points one and two above?
Are we talking about this here?
'cos if we are, I can see no sign of racism in said report.
Nope, I do not think speaking the truth is racist. The goal was to show how easy it is for people like you to throw the racist defense at someone instead of actually argue against what he is saying.Braddock wrote:
The first article did NOT indicate race explicitly. One could argue that the goggles of PC blurred the actual message but one could also argue that the goggles of racism could place it's own bias on his words.lowing wrote:
The first article was pretty clear cut, without the foggy googles of PC obstructing your visionCameronPoe wrote:
Your first article indicated nothing. This is very much more clear cut. You can only go on the evidence of what is before you.
His subsequent comments however show that Obama IS quite happy to direct comments, that in actuality relate to social problems, at an entire race of people, which is racist.
Congratulations lowing, Obama seems to be a racist. You going to vote for him now?
This has now been proven, now you can congratulate me.
Last edited by lowing (2008-07-16 00:20:33)
In my opinion directing a comment about social responsibility, which effects every race, at one specific race is an insult to all the hard-working, upwardly mobile members of that race and only serves to reinforce the bigoted stereotypes that exist in society.lowing wrote:
Nope, I do not think speaking the truth is racist. The goal was to show how easy it is for people like you to throw the racist defense at someone instead of actually argue against what he is saying.Braddock wrote:
The first article did NOT indicate race explicitly. One could argue that the goggles of PC blurred the actual message but one could also argue that the goggles of racism could place it's own bias on his words.lowing wrote:
The first article was pretty clear cut, without the foggy googles of PC obstructing your vision
His subsequent comments however show that Obama IS quite happy to direct comments, that in actuality relate to social problems, at an entire race of people, which is racist.
Congratulations lowing, Obama seems to be a racist. You going to vote for him now?
This has now been proven, now you can congratulate me.
Imagine if I directed comments about right-wing Christian America at all Americans, would that be fair to all the other Americans whose only common quality with these people is that they are American? I think not.
The only ones that need to take pause at such comments are those that the comments apply to..........and they know who they are.....If you took a jab at any part of any group, and I wasn't described in that jab, I wouldn't give a shit, in fact I would probably agree.Braddock wrote:
In my opinion directing a comment about social responsibility, which effects every race, at one specific race is an insult to all the hard-working, upwardly mobile members of that race and only serves to reinforce the bigoted stereotypes that exist in society.lowing wrote:
Nope, I do not think speaking the truth is racist. The goal was to show how easy it is for people like you to throw the racist defense at someone instead of actually argue against what he is saying.Braddock wrote:
The first article did NOT indicate race explicitly. One could argue that the goggles of PC blurred the actual message but one could also argue that the goggles of racism could place it's own bias on his words.
His subsequent comments however show that Obama IS quite happy to direct comments, that in actuality relate to social problems, at an entire race of people, which is racist.
Congratulations lowing, Obama seems to be a racist. You going to vote for him now?
This has now been proven, now you can congratulate me.
Imagine if I directed comments about right-wing Christian America at all Americans, would that be fair to all the other Americans whose only common quality with these people is that they are American? I think not.
The fact is, AND YOU HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THIS, because you have offered up reasons for it, a significant portion of the black community has the problem that Obama, Cosby, Rock, etc.....described, and you call them racist for it.
The OP has now been proven, you frivolously throw racist labels on those arguments you can not defend against.
To be fair Chris Rock makes very clear distinctions in his comments. In his own words he says "there are black people and there are niggers...and the niggers have to go", he doesn't make vague blanket comments about all black people lacking social responsibility.lowing wrote:
The only ones that need to take pause at such comments are those that the comments apply to..........and they know who they are.....If you took a jab at any part of any group, and I wasn't described in that jab, I wouldn't give a shit, in fact I would probably agree.Braddock wrote:
In my opinion directing a comment about social responsibility, which effects every race, at one specific race is an insult to all the hard-working, upwardly mobile members of that race and only serves to reinforce the bigoted stereotypes that exist in society.lowing wrote:
Nope, I do not think speaking the truth is racist. The goal was to show how easy it is for people like you to throw the racist defense at someone instead of actually argue against what he is saying.
This has now been proven, now you can congratulate me.
Imagine if I directed comments about right-wing Christian America at all Americans, would that be fair to all the other Americans whose only common quality with these people is that they are American? I think not.
The fact is, AND YOU HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THIS, because you have offered up reasons for it, a significant portion of the black community has the problem that Obama, Cosby, Rock, etc.....described, and you call them racist for it.
The OP has now been proven, you frivolously throw racist labels on those arguments you can not defend against.
Imagine Obama said "Jews need to stop being so tight with their money" or "Irish people need to learn how to control their drinking", both insulting stereotypes that arguably have some basis in truth, I would imagine you'd have a lot of generous Jewish people and teetotal Irish people who'd be very, very annoyed.
If I were Obama and I wanted to raise the issues that he raised in his speech with a particular demographic I would have probably started off by directing the call for increased social responsibility at all people then gone on to cite statistics that apply to the particular demographic I'm addressing and used these statistics as the basis for more action...instead he just used skin colour and as such he has provided an easy avenue for people to attack his comments; statistics and facts would have been a bit more difficult for Jackson, Sharpton et al. to complain about.
You like to think people throw 'the racist card' around when they can't argue their corner but I think you'll find page after page of clear, rational argument in this thread lowing. Hell, some posters have even been rational enough to change our original opinion about Obama as a result of your second source.
This OP was not about me thinking Obama is a racist, it is about the absurdity of you making such claims because he speaks the truth, a truth YOU HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED exists.Braddock wrote:
To be fair Chris Rock makes very clear distinctions in his comments. In his own words he says "there are black people and there are niggers...and the niggers have to go", he doesn't make vague blanket comments about all black people lacking social responsibility.lowing wrote:
The only ones that need to take pause at such comments are those that the comments apply to..........and they know who they are.....If you took a jab at any part of any group, and I wasn't described in that jab, I wouldn't give a shit, in fact I would probably agree.Braddock wrote:
In my opinion directing a comment about social responsibility, which effects every race, at one specific race is an insult to all the hard-working, upwardly mobile members of that race and only serves to reinforce the bigoted stereotypes that exist in society.
Imagine if I directed comments about right-wing Christian America at all Americans, would that be fair to all the other Americans whose only common quality with these people is that they are American? I think not.
The fact is, AND YOU HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THIS, because you have offered up reasons for it, a significant portion of the black community has the problem that Obama, Cosby, Rock, etc.....described, and you call them racist for it.
The OP has now been proven, you frivolously throw racist labels on those arguments you can not defend against.
Imagine Obama said "Jews need to stop being so tight with their money" or "Irish people need to learn how to control their drinking", both insulting stereotypes that arguably have some basis in truth, I would imagine you'd have a lot of generous Jewish people and teetotal Irish people who'd be very, very annoyed.
If I were Obama and I wanted to raise the issues that he raised in his speech with a particular demographic I would have probably started off by directing the call for increased social responsibility at all people then gone on to cite statistics that apply to the particular demographic I'm addressing and used these statistics as the basis for more action...instead he just used skin colour and as such he has provided an easy avenue for people to attack his comments; statistics and facts would have been a bit more difficult for Jackson, Sharpton et al. to complain about.
You like to think people throw 'the racist card' around when they can't argue their corner but I think you'll find page after page of clear, rational argument in this thread lowing. Hell, some posters have even been rational enough to change our original opinion about Obama as a result of your second source.
Careful lowing, your racism is bubbling to the surface again!lowing wrote:
This OP was not about me thinking Obama is a racist, it is about the absurdity of you making such claims because he speaks the truth, a truth YOU HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED exists.Braddock wrote:
To be fair Chris Rock makes very clear distinctions in his comments. In his own words he says "there are black people and there are niggers...and the niggers have to go", he doesn't make vague blanket comments about all black people lacking social responsibility.lowing wrote:
The only ones that need to take pause at such comments are those that the comments apply to..........and they know who they are.....If you took a jab at any part of any group, and I wasn't described in that jab, I wouldn't give a shit, in fact I would probably agree.
The fact is, AND YOU HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THIS, because you have offered up reasons for it, a significant portion of the black community has the problem that Obama, Cosby, Rock, etc.....described, and you call them racist for it.
The OP has now been proven, you frivolously throw racist labels on those arguments you can not defend against.
Imagine Obama said "Jews need to stop being so tight with their money" or "Irish people need to learn how to control their drinking", both insulting stereotypes that arguably have some basis in truth, I would imagine you'd have a lot of generous Jewish people and teetotal Irish people who'd be very, very annoyed.
If I were Obama and I wanted to raise the issues that he raised in his speech with a particular demographic I would have probably started off by directing the call for increased social responsibility at all people then gone on to cite statistics that apply to the particular demographic I'm addressing and used these statistics as the basis for more action...instead he just used skin colour and as such he has provided an easy avenue for people to attack his comments; statistics and facts would have been a bit more difficult for Jackson, Sharpton et al. to complain about.
You like to think people throw 'the racist card' around when they can't argue their corner but I think you'll find page after page of clear, rational argument in this thread lowing. Hell, some posters have even been rational enough to change our original opinion about Obama as a result of your second source.
The truth: statistics would show high crime rates among African American communities and hence an indication that there is a lack of social responsibility among many people within these communities.
Your truth: black people lack social responsibility.
The fact is crime and social responsibility go hand in hand with poverty and focusing the debate on the sole issue of race negates all the other contributing factors. Why must Obama bring the topic around to race, I thought it was the UNITED States of America, or is segregation still in place and no one has told me? Deal with social problems on a social level not a racial level.
When all African American communities are statistically as affluent as white American communities and the crime statistics are still as they are today...then I will admit you were right lowing, hell, I'll even eat my hat!
Will someone please tell me WHAT SECOND SOURCE???
I see nothing in anything posted by lowing to suggest that Obama is at all racist.
I see nothing in anything posted by lowing to suggest that Obama is at all racist.
Second source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080715/ap_ … _blacks_18Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Will someone please tell me WHAT SECOND SOURCE???
I see nothing in anything posted by lowing to suggest that Obama is at all racist.
OK, that's the 'second source' I thought everyone meant. ( 'second source' - this all becoming a bit 'dodgy dossier', isn't it?)Braddock wrote:
Second source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080715/ap_ … _blacks_18Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Will someone please tell me WHAT SECOND SOURCE???
I see nothing in anything posted by lowing to suggest that Obama is at all racist.
Anyhoo, would Cam (seeing as you appear to now agree with lowing) or the mighty lowing himself, please point out exactly where in said second source it states anything that even implies racism on Obamas part.
obama exemplifies the "cult of personality".
END of story.
END of story.
Care to elaborate or explain your point of view in some way? As an outsider I have to say Obama doesn't seem any different to any other previous Presidential candidate.theelviscerator wrote:
obama exemplifies the "cult of personality".
END of story.
No Braddock, I never said black people lack social responsibility. and you know it. I understand you have to say that I did so you can have an argument to try and make, but the truth is I never said such a thing.Braddock wrote:
Careful lowing, your racism is bubbling to the surface again!lowing wrote:
This OP was not about me thinking Obama is a racist, it is about the absurdity of you making such claims because he speaks the truth, a truth YOU HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED exists.Braddock wrote:
To be fair Chris Rock makes very clear distinctions in his comments. In his own words he says "there are black people and there are niggers...and the niggers have to go", he doesn't make vague blanket comments about all black people lacking social responsibility.
Imagine Obama said "Jews need to stop being so tight with their money" or "Irish people need to learn how to control their drinking", both insulting stereotypes that arguably have some basis in truth, I would imagine you'd have a lot of generous Jewish people and teetotal Irish people who'd be very, very annoyed.
If I were Obama and I wanted to raise the issues that he raised in his speech with a particular demographic I would have probably started off by directing the call for increased social responsibility at all people then gone on to cite statistics that apply to the particular demographic I'm addressing and used these statistics as the basis for more action...instead he just used skin colour and as such he has provided an easy avenue for people to attack his comments; statistics and facts would have been a bit more difficult for Jackson, Sharpton et al. to complain about.
You like to think people throw 'the racist card' around when they can't argue their corner but I think you'll find page after page of clear, rational argument in this thread lowing. Hell, some posters have even been rational enough to change our original opinion about Obama as a result of your second source.
The truth: statistics would show high crime rates among African American communities and hence an indication that there is a lack of social responsibility among many people within these communities.
Your truth: black people lack social responsibility.
The fact is crime and social responsibility go hand in hand with poverty and focusing the debate on the sole issue of race negates all the other contributing factors. Why must Obama bring the topic around to race, I thought it was the UNITED States of America, or is segregation still in place and no one has told me? Deal with social problems on a social level not a racial level.
When all African American communities are statistically as affluent as white American communities and the crime statistics are still as they are today...then I will admit you were right lowing, hell, I'll even eat my hat!
This OP is not ME saying Obama is a racist........It is YOU and others SAYING it.
He specifically addressed the black community and addressed the social problems THAY YOU ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED and gave reasons for. AND YOU labeled him a racist for it.... I am merely pointing out just how easy and fluidly you and others throw out the racist card to diflect in an effort to ignore what is being said...THE TRUTH............I will not let you divert this. This what the the discussion is, so stick to it.
JESUS CHRIST!!!...........I do not think Obama is a racist! Even the OP title says "according to YOU".Scorpion0x17 wrote:
OK, that's the 'second source' I thought everyone meant. ( 'second source' - this all becoming a bit 'dodgy dossier', isn't it?)Braddock wrote:
Second source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080715/ap_ … _blacks_18Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Will someone please tell me WHAT SECOND SOURCE???
I see nothing in anything posted by lowing to suggest that Obama is at all racist.
Anyhoo, would Cam (seeing as you appear to now agree with lowing) or the mighty lowing himself, please point out exactly where in said second source it states anything that even implies racism on Obamas part.
The purpose of this OP was to show how easily the racist card is played in an argument.
Obama speaks the truth and is labeled a racist by Cam and Braddock....I disagree
I think we've walked into another cycle of misunderstanding each other's argument lowing. I know problems exist in the African American community and talking about them is not racism. What is racist is making race the primary focus of the argument and neglecting the significance of other major contributing factors, namely poverty versus wealth. I just don't think it is fair to say "Black people need to take responsibility" when many, many black Americans are perfectly responsible members of society.lowing wrote:
No Braddock, I never said black people lack social responsibility. and you know it. I understand you have to say that I did so you can have an argument to try and make, but the truth is I never said such a thing.
This OP is not ME saying Obama is a racist........It is YOU and others SAYING it.
He specifically addressed the black community and addressed the social problems THAY YOU ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED and gave reasons for. AND YOU labeled him a racist for it.... I am merely pointing out just how easy and fluidly you and others throw out the racist card to diflect in an effort to ignore what is being said...THE TRUTH............I will not let you divert this. This what the the discussion is, so stick to it.
you pay WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much attention to people's race for not being a racistlowing wrote:
JESUS CHRIST!!!...........I do not think Obama is a racist! Even the OP title says "according to YOU".Scorpion0x17 wrote:
OK, that's the 'second source' I thought everyone meant. ( 'second source' - this all becoming a bit 'dodgy dossier', isn't it?)
Anyhoo, would Cam (seeing as you appear to now agree with lowing) or the mighty lowing himself, please point out exactly where in said second source it states anything that even implies racism on Obamas part.
The purpose of this OP was to show how easily the racist card is played in an argument.
Obama speaks the truth and is labeled a racist by Cam and Braddock....I disagree
Tell it to Obama Braddock, not me.Braddock wrote:
I think we've walked into another cycle of misunderstanding each other's argument lowing. I know problems exist in the African American community and talking about them is not racism. What is racist is making race the primary focus of the argument and neglecting the significance of other major contributing factors, namely poverty versus wealth. I just don't think it is fair to say "Black people need to take responsibility" when many, many black Americans are perfectly responsible members of society.lowing wrote:
No Braddock, I never said black people lack social responsibility. and you know it. I understand you have to say that I did so you can have an argument to try and make, but the truth is I never said such a thing.
This OP is not ME saying Obama is a racist........It is YOU and others SAYING it.
He specifically addressed the black community and addressed the social problems THAY YOU ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED and gave reasons for. AND YOU labeled him a racist for it.... I am merely pointing out just how easy and fluidly you and others throw out the racist card to diflect in an effort to ignore what is being said...THE TRUTH............I will not let you divert this. This what the the discussion is, so stick to it.
All he was doing is acknowledging the truth about the problems in that community. Problems that everyone knows exists. Nothing more and nothing less. You call him a racist for it and you call me a racist for agreeing with him.
Sorry Gunslinger, I pay attention to social issues in America, not racial onesGod Save the Queen wrote:
you pay WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much attention to people's race for not being a racistlowing wrote:
JESUS CHRIST!!!...........I do not think Obama is a racist! Even the OP title says "according to YOU".Scorpion0x17 wrote:
OK, that's the 'second source' I thought everyone meant. ( 'second source' - this all becoming a bit 'dodgy dossier', isn't it?)
Anyhoo, would Cam (seeing as you appear to now agree with lowing) or the mighty lowing himself, please point out exactly where in said second source it states anything that even implies racism on Obamas part.
The purpose of this OP was to show how easily the racist card is played in an argument.
Obama speaks the truth and is labeled a racist by Cam and Braddock....I disagree
But he directed his comments at the entire black race in America...are you saying that doesn't reinforce stereotypes in the mind of racists and detract from the achievements of successful, socially responsible African Americans?lowing wrote:
Tell it to Obama Braddock, not me.Braddock wrote:
I think we've walked into another cycle of misunderstanding each other's argument lowing. I know problems exist in the African American community and talking about them is not racism. What is racist is making race the primary focus of the argument and neglecting the significance of other major contributing factors, namely poverty versus wealth. I just don't think it is fair to say "Black people need to take responsibility" when many, many black Americans are perfectly responsible members of society.lowing wrote:
No Braddock, I never said black people lack social responsibility. and you know it. I understand you have to say that I did so you can have an argument to try and make, but the truth is I never said such a thing.
This OP is not ME saying Obama is a racist........It is YOU and others SAYING it.
He specifically addressed the black community and addressed the social problems THAY YOU ALREADY ACKNOWLEDGED and gave reasons for. AND YOU labeled him a racist for it.... I am merely pointing out just how easy and fluidly you and others throw out the racist card to diflect in an effort to ignore what is being said...THE TRUTH............I will not let you divert this. This what the the discussion is, so stick to it.
All he was doing is acknowledging the truth about the problems in that community. Problems that everyone knows exists. Nothing more and nothing less. You call him a racist for it and you call me a racist for agreeing with him.
Then why do always frame your threads with the issue of race? It's always about race with you, which is strange for someone who like to go on about their belief in the individual.lowing wrote:
Sorry Gunslinger, I pay attention to social issues in America, not racial onesGod Save the Queen wrote:
you pay WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much attention to people's race for not being a racistlowing wrote:
JESUS CHRIST!!!...........I do not think Obama is a racist! Even the OP title says "according to YOU".
The purpose of this OP was to show how easily the racist card is played in an argument.
Obama speaks the truth and is labeled a racist by Cam and Braddock....I disagree
Last edited by Braddock (2008-07-16 11:18:56)
I feel he directed his comments to every black person that is guilty of his words. That or he is speaking to the black community as a family, and this family has a problem, and this problem is hurting the image of the family and it can not be ignored any longer.Braddock wrote:
But he directed his comments at the entire black race in America...are you saying that doesn't reinforce stereotypes in the mind of racists and detract from the achievements of successful, socially responsible African Americans?lowing wrote:
Tell it to Obama Braddock, not me.Braddock wrote:
I think we've walked into another cycle of misunderstanding each other's argument lowing. I know problems exist in the African American community and talking about them is not racism. What is racist is making race the primary focus of the argument and neglecting the significance of other major contributing factors, namely poverty versus wealth. I just don't think it is fair to say "Black people need to take responsibility" when many, many black Americans are perfectly responsible members of society.
All he was doing is acknowledging the truth about the problems in that community. Problems that everyone knows exists. Nothing more and nothing less. You call him a racist for it and you call me a racist for agreeing with him.
Either one or both, it still is the truth and maybe racial, for the sole reason he is speaking to a race, but it certainly is not racist per the context you are using.
Nope, my threads are about, double standards, hypocrisy, etc......... Not race, I do not like anyone that I bitch about in this forum regarding their actions or lack of it, race has got nothing to do with it.Braddock wrote:
Then why do always frame your threads with the issue of race? It's always about race with you, which is strange for someone who like to go on about their belief in the individual.lowing wrote:
Sorry Gunslinger, I pay attention to social issues in America, not racial onesGod Save the Queen wrote:
you pay WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much attention to people's race for not being a racist
If the topic is about the white supremacy I am pretty much gunna talk about that issue ( and not in the positive), and I promise you, you will not be there screaming racism because you say I am including all white people. Why would that be?
The other topic was about black criminals so I posted about that topic and was labeled a racist because I was "singling out"