my uncle was a chef on an australian navy ship and worked there for 26 years, he left adn got a $AUD800,000 payout
bring back the draft in the United States
Gunslinger why the hell would you post that with no reasoning..are you just trying to get a flame war goin?
There is no need for a draft in the US. Its covered by forces already inplace...as unhappy as they are about it. I really don;t envy those reserve guys.
There is no need for a draft in the US. Its covered by forces already inplace...as unhappy as they are about it. I really don;t envy those reserve guys.
what you said about people serving their government before going to college sounds like a great idea, thats why i said that. I actually dont think a draft is a good idea with todays military. I would not have wanted someone in my unit in iraq to feel like they were forced there. too much money is invested in the training of todays soldiers that a draft will not be feasible. The govt does not want to invest all that cash into someone who, chances are, will get out the secend they can. But I do believe some kind of military training should be mandatory. I was 17 when I joined Im 23 now and Im just shocked at the kind work ethic and character that our schools are producing for our future.
FYI, I dont care what they cry and complain about. You get paid more as a reservist deployed than as an active duty soldier deployed.
FYI, I dont care what they cry and complain about. You get paid more as a reservist deployed than as an active duty soldier deployed.
Sarcasm noted. Now...why are people jumping up and down in fury just because I suggested that it would be impossible for the US to maintain its military without the influx of cash and support from its civilian ecomony? And then you try to drive the guilt in further by "taunting" me for how and where my government spends taxes? Do you think everybody has to be military (or former military) to be worthwhile as a human being? That people who go out and work ordinary jobs to support their families don't contribute to society? That's pretty narrow-minded.sfg-Ice__ wrote:
unnamednewbie13 I would like to personnally thank you for your sacrifice in paying roughly 10% to 15% of your wages. Thanks for...well nm. You man, I'm sorry but your statement kind of put me off. Alot of these fellas here have put thier lives on the line, have been in places you would never go, have done things you only see in your worst nightmare, and above all, are there to maintain your freedom at all costs. So I guess you can say that the taxpayers are doing the bare minimum to support the country. But again thanks.
Any of you gys ever wish the US had a mandatory goverment service program like germany? You know, after high school the kids would have to either go in the military, work in a hosptial, or do some sort of public service job before going to college. I think it would do wonders strengthening the US.
And then, to top it off, you put words in my mouth by saying that I'm cheapening the risks US servicemen take. [sarcasm]Oh my god! Let's spout the hardened Hollywood war veteran mantra and try to intimidate people online with hints and suggestions of wartime horror and atrocities. Worst nightmares! You only have your freedom because of us![/sarcasm] When did you ever catch me saying that combat is a cakewalk? You assume an awful lot about someone you've never met.
[bigrant]
As far as strengthening the US is concerned, while I don't think US citizens would ever go for mandatory government service, hardening the education system would work wonders. They could do with less "stuffing-of-one-sided-political-agendas-down-throats" activities, less "an-F-in-80%-of-your-classes-is-ok-so-long-as-you-got-a-C-in-another;-welcome-to-tenth-grade!" and emphasize more languages, technical sciences, basic sciences (college req. stuff), mathematics, geography (I was astounded to see a grown man put a pin labeled Iran on Australia), and history (with books that include more than one page on any war).
[/bigrant]
^Dam good point, watched many a program on the SAS and if anything they probably deserve a scotish accent as they make up most of the force. Plus i agree the RAF would give the USAF a run for its money seeing as we made and sold them there Harriers........ShowMeTheMonkey wrote:
DAMN YOU YANKEE FLY BOYS!
OVER PAID
OVER SEXED
AND OVER HERE!
We were giving the old jerries a run for their money as they caught us with our trousers down! But I tell you Her Majesties Royal Air Force will give them a jolly good thrashing with their own sport what what!
And a note to most american filmakers and game developers:
BRITS DO NOT TALK LIKE THAT ANYMORE!
In BF2 :Special Forces the SAS talk like that, but in reality British people don't talk like that.
haRRIERS ARE ONE OF THE WORST PEICES, IN REGARDS TO SAFETY AND MAINTENANCE, OF MILITARY EQUIPMENT THAT IS STILL USED IN THE US TODAY
lol unnamednewbie13 I think you misunderstood what I was expressing there. Our tax dollars don;t just go for the military. They do alot of things that help support you and me. Like maintaining roads, ensuring police are on the streets, etc etc. Paying your taxes is a mandatory thing....serving your country (in most cases) is voluntary. Its something you choice to do above and beyond what is required. Your right though, alot of military people do have a kind of chip on thier shoulder. I tend to think of it more as pride or a secret joke only those who served know about or can relate to.
We kind of have a brotherhood in the service..doesn't matter what branch or country really. I've sat down at a bar, stoked up a conversation with a fellas and next thing we're trading military stories like old friends. And the thing is, we are from that point on. There is nothing else in the world that can bond people like that.
We kind of have a brotherhood in the service..doesn't matter what branch or country really. I've sat down at a bar, stoked up a conversation with a fellas and next thing we're trading military stories like old friends. And the thing is, we are from that point on. There is nothing else in the world that can bond people like that.
your right on the money about that secret joke
Alright, my bad then. I'm just used to 'debates' stocked with trumped-up misquotes and assumptions, particularly online (by far the most popular being presumptions about age, education, job experience and military service). Inavoidable. While paying taxes is mandatory, many people can and do cheat that system. Those who don't deserve some amount of credit. And all the work and research put into the military by civilian businesses and contractors tends to go unnoticed as well, in favor of solely glorifying the military for its accomplishments in warfare. I just choose not to go around and tromp on everyone else's worth just because of the kind of job I have or had, or how popular it is/was in the society I live in.sfg-Ice__ wrote:
lol unnamednewbie13 I think you misunderstood what I was expressing there. Our tax dollars don;t just go for the military. They do alot of things that help support you and me. Like maintaining roads, ensuring police are on the streets, etc etc. Paying your taxes is a mandatory thing....serving your country (in most cases) is voluntary. Its something you choice to do above and beyond what is required. Your right though, alot of military people do have a kind of chip on thier shoulder. I tend to think of it more as pride or a secret joke only those who served know about or can relate to.
We kind of have a brotherhood in the service..doesn't matter what branch or country really. I've sat down at a bar, stoked up a conversation with a fellas and next thing we're trading military stories like old friends. And the thing is, we are from that point on. There is nothing else in the world that can bond people like that.
And as far as police being on the streets are concerned, I trust more in a 12-guage 5 seconds away than I do a cop 5 minutes away.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-03-01 16:45:52)
I would like to relate my own experiences with the UASF...
While a lot of people may have the idea that the USAF is full of "girlymen", I have to take exception that that notion. SURE there are probably a lot more pointyheads in the air force than in other branches of the service, but I think that is mainly due to the shear amount of high technology being used from the bottom level on up. I think it is fair to say that every branch of the service seriously get THEIR job done, just different end goals for each of them.
That being said however, since we are supposed to be talking about the USAF, let me relate a little bit of information that most people dont know, or if they do.. they are misinformed.
I have had the pleasure to work daily with a group of AIR FORCE guys called PJ's(pararescuemen) and CRO's (Combat Rescue Officers), some people may have never heard of them.. others may have. Unlike (and I take nothing away from any of them at all) SEALS, Green Berets, Delta Force or Force Recon...PJ's and CRO's are not at all specialized in 1 or 2 or 3 disciplines.. these guys do it all.. and do it all extremely well. These guys have nuts the size of a Volkswagen Beetle, and if I were on the opposing force trying to capture a downed American pilot.. I would be very worried about how much longer I had to live.
Clip from MailCall about PJ's - the 129th that he talks about at the end.. thats my unit
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … pararescue
A Video Showing PJ's in action- *Music has some language that may not be suitable for children or work*
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … pararescue
the quote about the 90% washout is no joke..
The Helicopter seen in those videos is what is known as an HH-60G Pavehawk Air Force Special Operations Helicopter, Blackhawk on some serious JUICE. I was a CrewChief on those for 10 years before transfering to the Pararescue squadron at my base
AG
While a lot of people may have the idea that the USAF is full of "girlymen", I have to take exception that that notion. SURE there are probably a lot more pointyheads in the air force than in other branches of the service, but I think that is mainly due to the shear amount of high technology being used from the bottom level on up. I think it is fair to say that every branch of the service seriously get THEIR job done, just different end goals for each of them.
That being said however, since we are supposed to be talking about the USAF, let me relate a little bit of information that most people dont know, or if they do.. they are misinformed.
I have had the pleasure to work daily with a group of AIR FORCE guys called PJ's(pararescuemen) and CRO's (Combat Rescue Officers), some people may have never heard of them.. others may have. Unlike (and I take nothing away from any of them at all) SEALS, Green Berets, Delta Force or Force Recon...PJ's and CRO's are not at all specialized in 1 or 2 or 3 disciplines.. these guys do it all.. and do it all extremely well. These guys have nuts the size of a Volkswagen Beetle, and if I were on the opposing force trying to capture a downed American pilot.. I would be very worried about how much longer I had to live.
Clip from MailCall about PJ's - the 129th that he talks about at the end.. thats my unit
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … pararescue
A Video Showing PJ's in action- *Music has some language that may not be suitable for children or work*
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid … pararescue
the quote about the 90% washout is no joke..
The Helicopter seen in those videos is what is known as an HH-60G Pavehawk Air Force Special Operations Helicopter, Blackhawk on some serious JUICE. I was a CrewChief on those for 10 years before transfering to the Pararescue squadron at my base
AG
Last edited by agwood (2006-03-01 23:01:14)
Amen brother PJ's are some insanely trained personnel. They are the people that you look foward to seeing should anything happen to you. But on that note another USAF asset to all branches is the TACP operative. He is the only guy in the military trained to call in air support sorties and is often the lifeline of troops in heavy battle. Its funny how people look at the Air Force as the "Chair Force" when they really don't have a clue as to what we are capable of.
roflcyborg_ninja-117 wrote:
heres the oath the airforce have to sign:
US AIR FORCE OATH OF ENLISTMENT
"I, (State your name), swear to sign away 4 years of my life to the UNITED STATES AIR FORCE because I know I couldn't hack it in the Army, because the Marines frighten me, and because I am afraid of water over waist-deep. I swear to sit behind a desk. I also swear not to do any form of real exercise, but promise to defend our bike-riding test as a valid form of exercise. I promise to walk around calling everyone by their first name because I find it amusing to annoy the other services. I will have a better quality of life than those around me and will, at all times, be sure to make them aware of that fact. After completion of "Basic Training", I will be a lean, mean, donut-eating, Lazy-Boy sitting, civilian-wearing-blue-clothes, Chair-borne Ranger. I will believe I am superior to all others and will make an effort to clean the knife before stabbing the next person in the back. I will annoy those around me, and will go home early every day. So Help Me God!"
but i wanna join the airforce... air conditioned office... breakfast in bed at 10... excersize from 11-12 lunch from 12-1 and catnap at 2-3 and the day is over lol.but i really wanna join the RAAF its awsome flying around and bomb the shit out of every1 btw, dont forget airforce women... theyre real easy but if u do stuff to airforce women to civilian women... u get ur nuts kicked
I'm with you brother. One force one fight. Everyone in uniform who fights on my SIDE is my brother...as long as he actually fights (I have worked with some UN shitbags who can't run away fast enough when the bullets fly - those guys are lucky we don't shoot them too).GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
I can go on and on about the strengths and weaknesses about the different branches but I think of anyone who wears a uniform for our nations armed forces is my brother regardless of who pays the checks.(but the Army is the best)
Infantry soldiers who have reached a certain level of experience are VERY MUCH in demand in certain fields. You sound like a smart guy, I'm sure you can understand what I'm saying here.sfg-Ice__ wrote:
Gunslinger....Tell me three things..after you get out of the military as infantry..
What jobs are you qualified for?
How many college credits do you get for your job?
How high of a demand is your potential job?-Give ya a tip for this one. The higher the demand means they can't keep people in it.
As far as guys who don't meet those kinds of requirements, they still have a very good chance at jobs in Law Enforcement, from Local and State, to Federal Marshall and FBI. Those guys love grunts.
Please, let's not demean the infantry. One of my Drill Sergeants at Sand Hill (Ft. Benning for all the non-Infantry types) once told me that, "Every other Job in the military's function, ultimately, is to support the infantry." Now, you can nit pick that (if you were on a boomer, or in a silo, it's hard to make that connection), but in more general terms, he had a very interesting point.
B.Shuss said it in another thread: For the forseeable future, the Infantry is here to stay. Who else is going to be the man on the ground? Tankers? Please! I love those guys, but they don't get off their tanks for anything! I've seen them hang thier asses over the side of the tank to take a shit. At the end of the day, you gotta have boots on the ground, and the guy in those boots is Infantry.
how correct you are.. the Air Force is one of the best kept secrets out there. We get to do a lot of the high speed stuff.. but no living in foxholes (spent my time in a crappy tents though). You are not kidding about the TACP guys.. from Afghanistan to Iraq.. a lot of those guys are walking around with some pretty impressive decorations on their chest.. they were calling in air to drop bombs on enemy positions 100 yards or less from where they were.. takes a whole lotta balls to do that kinda stuff.2ndLt.Tucker wrote:
Amen brother PJ's are some insanely trained personnel. They are the people that you look foward to seeing should anything happen to you. But on that note another USAF asset to all branches is the TACP operative. He is the only guy in the military trained to call in air support sorties and is often the lifeline of troops in heavy battle. Its funny how people look at the Air Force as the "Chair Force" when they really don't have a clue as to what we are capable of.
Tucker.. you with the 138th?? if so... props.. you guys providied some sweet sandy rescort when we were in Turkey..
AG
Its like you were reading every thought in my mind bro. When you go through basic, i was at 1/19 but that was 5 years ago.whittsend wrote:
I'm with you brother. One force one fight. Everyone in uniform who fights on my SIDE is my brother...as long as he actually fights (I have worked with some UN shitbags who can't run away fast enough when the bullets fly - those guys are lucky we don't shoot them too).GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
I can go on and on about the strengths and weaknesses about the different branches but I think of anyone who wears a uniform for our nations armed forces is my brother regardless of who pays the checks.(but the Army is the best)Infantry soldiers who have reached a certain level of experience are VERY MUCH in demand in certain fields. You sound like a smart guy, I'm sure you can understand what I'm saying here.sfg-Ice__ wrote:
Gunslinger....Tell me three things..after you get out of the military as infantry..
What jobs are you qualified for?
How many college credits do you get for your job?
How high of a demand is your potential job?-Give ya a tip for this one. The higher the demand means they can't keep people in it.
As far as guys who don't meet those kinds of requirements, they still have a very good chance at jobs in Law Enforcement, from Local and State, to Federal Marshall and FBI. Those guys love grunts.
Please, let's not demean the infantry. One of my Drill Sergeants at Sand Hill (Ft. Benning for all the non-Infantry types) once told me that, "Every other Job in the military's function, ultimately, is to support the infantry." Now, you can nit pick that (if you were on a boomer, or in a silo, it's hard to make that connection), but in more general terms, he had a very interesting point.
B.Shuss said it in another thread: For the forseeable future, the Infantry is here to stay. Who else is going to be the man on the ground? Tankers? Please! I love those guys, but they don't get off their tanks for anything! I've seen them hang thier asses over the side of the tank to take a shit. At the end of the day, you gotta have boots on the ground, and the guy in those boots is Infantry.
Why is the sky blue! What makes the grass grow green!
I went through in the summer of '92. A/1-38. Last starship down by the 1/2 mile track.GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
Its like you were reading every thought in my mind bro. When you go through basic, i was at 1/19 but that was 5 years ago.
Why is the sky blue! What makes the grass grow green!
Last edited by whittsend (2006-03-02 16:36:50)
is that the rock of the marne by any chance?
Agwood yes I'm with the 138th. Were a guard unit but sadly we still out perform almost all the active duty units in terms of Safety and our mission competency. Its funny but at the same time it amazes me as to how many people know of our unit. Turkey wasn't our best performance either....atleast according to our ex co who pretty much said we sucked on that deployment. Then in Qatar this last round we recieved praises from some high ass command personnel. We took out a crapload of mortar sites and sniper buildings.....was interesting watching those 2 munition bunkers we hit blow for 3 solid hours too.
Tucker,
Same here.. the 129th is a Guard unit, I am a fulltimer also
I think its funny how the "guard" guys get labeled, Ladies and Gentlemen.. the guard/reserves has been getting their ASS RODE HARD the last 5-7 years (last 3 have been pretty brutal), with a HELL of a lot less money than the active component. this isnt the "good 'ol boy club" anymore.
Here is the way I see it (been on both sides of the fence), on active duty you get a lot of poptarts.. in.. basic.. tech school.... PCS to their base.. get assigned a trainer that might have 18-24 month in service... learn a lot of bad habits from them (they call it un-learning what the school taught you)... The guys that know WTF is going on are too busy Managing now that they are an E-5 or E-6.... doing your 4 years and then pulling the ejection handles.
In the guard/reserves (either prior or always been guard/reserves) almost all of the guys that are there have soooo much experience in their particular career field, you can learn so much from them. These guys and gals have made a career our of the guard/reserves and they show pride in their work.. and as you may know.. at almost all guard/reserve units.. it is SOOO freaking hard to get a fulltime job.. the folks have to die or retire to open up slots for newer people.
I have deployed a shitload.. EVERYTIME we go somewhere the AD guys are like "hey guard....welcome to the real air force".. they soon learn to eat humble pie as we proceed to smoke their asses in everything that needs to get done.. Guard guys are almost always.. better-faster-cleaner and produce a better product than the active component...I love it.. and I have had more beers bought for me from AD guys that got slapped stupid by how good the "guard guys" can get shit done.
Our military would be super hurting right now if it werent for the guard/reserves
and for those of you that REALLY think the guard/reserves only ask for 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year...
I WISH... it sure as hell isnt like that in my unit.
AG
Same here.. the 129th is a Guard unit, I am a fulltimer also
I think its funny how the "guard" guys get labeled, Ladies and Gentlemen.. the guard/reserves has been getting their ASS RODE HARD the last 5-7 years (last 3 have been pretty brutal), with a HELL of a lot less money than the active component. this isnt the "good 'ol boy club" anymore.
Here is the way I see it (been on both sides of the fence), on active duty you get a lot of poptarts.. in.. basic.. tech school.... PCS to their base.. get assigned a trainer that might have 18-24 month in service... learn a lot of bad habits from them (they call it un-learning what the school taught you)... The guys that know WTF is going on are too busy Managing now that they are an E-5 or E-6.... doing your 4 years and then pulling the ejection handles.
In the guard/reserves (either prior or always been guard/reserves) almost all of the guys that are there have soooo much experience in their particular career field, you can learn so much from them. These guys and gals have made a career our of the guard/reserves and they show pride in their work.. and as you may know.. at almost all guard/reserve units.. it is SOOO freaking hard to get a fulltime job.. the folks have to die or retire to open up slots for newer people.
I have deployed a shitload.. EVERYTIME we go somewhere the AD guys are like "hey guard....welcome to the real air force".. they soon learn to eat humble pie as we proceed to smoke their asses in everything that needs to get done.. Guard guys are almost always.. better-faster-cleaner and produce a better product than the active component...I love it.. and I have had more beers bought for me from AD guys that got slapped stupid by how good the "guard guys" can get shit done.
Our military would be super hurting right now if it werent for the guard/reserves
and for those of you that REALLY think the guard/reserves only ask for 1 weekend a month and 2 weeks a year...
I WISH... it sure as hell isnt like that in my unit.
AG
Last edited by agwood (2006-03-03 00:56:51)
Lol yeah i know what you mean their. Guard/Reserve doesn't get to sit on their asses anymore. You get deployed more than the active duty guys which is funny. And yeah getting a full time slot at our base is hard as hell. Even getting tech is almost impossible. All of our supervisors are young as hell and we only have so many slots of each rank after ssrgt so it get rough. But we do know our shit and at my unit you don't get promoted untill you have become a 5lvl or been at our base for 2 yrs. So you can sit your happy ass at A1C or learn your shit to get promoted but thats about the only way. Even our supervisors are qualified to still work on the planes. We had a "hung bomb" on our last deployment that Operations fucked up on when they called it in. Our pilot didnt even try to drop it because he had a bad reading. But I was out on EOR with my crew chief and all a sudden we see Military Police, Fire Trucks, EOD, Base Col. and Command Chief out there and were all going....WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON. Our supervisors showed up to take care of the "hung bomb" personally and all the officers and command staff are like...WHOA you guys can't do that your supervisors and not qualified. Lol my supervisors looked straight at the command chief and said....The hell we aren't we stay qualified at our base. Moments like that make me laugh my ass off.
It is! We used to go around saying "Rocket to Mars".GunSlinger OIF II wrote:
is that the rock of the marne by any chance?
i am not in the service but i have worked with a few pilots from the navy and the air force. this is what they tell me. unlike the navy and the marines, air force pilots have to abide by FAA rules in addition to their own rules. the flight manuals of the marines and navy look like cliffs notes compared to the air force bible. it is harder to fly in the air force because of these rules. i am sure the guards pilots also have the same difficult rules to follow when training and flying in continent.
when i compared the education level of a navy LCDR and an air force MAJ, the major has a higher level of education even though they are essentially the same rank in different service. so to me it seems the air force encourages higher learning than the navy.
on a side note and just an observation... navy pilots are effeminate. so i guess the village people song "in the navy" really meant something.
when i compared the education level of a navy LCDR and an air force MAJ, the major has a higher level of education even though they are essentially the same rank in different service. so to me it seems the air force encourages higher learning than the navy.
on a side note and just an observation... navy pilots are effeminate. so i guess the village people song "in the navy" really meant something.
Ahh...but you can't beat that E4 drill sergeant who's younger than half of the recruits...and with an ego the size of the Goodyear Blimp.agwood wrote:
Here is the way I see it (been on both sides of the fence), on active duty you get a lot of poptarts.. in.. basic.. tech school.... PCS to their base.. get assigned a trainer that might have 18-24 month in service... learn a lot of bad habits from them (they call it un-learning what the school taught you)... The guys that know WTF is going on are too busy Managing now that they are an E-5 or E-6.... doing your 4 years and then pulling the ejection handles.
Must not be a cop......agwood wrote:
how correct you are.. the Air Force is one of the best kept secrets out there. We get to do a lot of the high speed stuff.. but no living in foxholes (spent my time in a crappy tents though). You are not kidding about the TACP guys.. from Afghanistan to Iraq.. a lot of those guys are walking around with some pretty impressive decorations on their chest.. they were calling in air to drop bombs on enemy positions 100 yards or less from where they were.. takes a whole lotta balls to do that kinda stuff.2ndLt.Tucker wrote:
Amen brother PJ's are some insanely trained personnel. They are the people that you look foward to seeing should anything happen to you. But on that note another USAF asset to all branches is the TACP operative. He is the only guy in the military trained to call in air support sorties and is often the lifeline of troops in heavy battle. Its funny how people look at the Air Force as the "Chair Force" when they really don't have a clue as to what we are capable of.
Tucker.. you with the 138th?? if so... props.. you guys providied some sweet sandy rescort when we were in Turkey..
AG